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      #11 (permalink)  
    Old 07-06-2007, 10:18 AM
    4dkids 4dkids is offline
    Knight
     
    Join Date: Jun 2007
    Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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    The study guides state:

    "The use of non-programmable calculators is
    permitted during the test. Scratch paper for
    computations should be provided."[/quote]

    I've contacted several military test centers which stated just that.
    I won't be sweating it as my calculator does not have that program option.
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      #12 (permalink)  
    Old 07-07-2007, 02:47 AM
    barcotta's Avatar
    barcotta barcotta is offline
    Lord
     
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    In an effort to add more speculation with some possibly, potentially helpful information, here's an excerpt from the University of Alberta Engineering Department which provides some detail, at least from their perspective, of programmable vs. non-programmable calculators. This whole four function thing in previous posts sounds crazy to me. Why DSST doesn't make this clear is beyond me. Anyway, for those who are interested, check this out.


    Policy on Calculator Use In Examination
    List of Approved Calculators

    Approved Calculators: Functionality and Specifications

    Policy on Calculator Use In Examinations

    The Faculty of Engineering has adopted a policy for undergraduate courses whereby only certain makes and models of calculators are allowed in midterm and final examinations for all undergraduate courses offered within the Faculty. This is to provide a level playing field for all students and preclude devices with communications capabilities.

    Any calculator taken into an examination must have a sticker identifying it as an acceptable programmable (green sticker) or non-programmable calculator (gold sticker). Students can purchase calculators at the University Book Store with stickers already affixed. Calculators purchased elsewhere can be brought to the Dean's Office where the appropriate sticker will be affixed to the calculator.

    Given the cost of the programmable calculators, instructors should give careful consideration to the need for these in an examination...

    List of Approved Calculators
    Calculators approved by the Faculty of Engineering for use in examinations are as follows:

    Non-Programmable:
    Hewlett Packard Model HP 30S
    Sharp EL-520V or EL-520VB
    CASIO FX-115MS Plus
    Texas Instruments Model TI-30X IIB or TI-30X IIS (The IIS is the solar version of the IIB and costs ~$5 more)
    (All Approximately $20)

    Programmable:
    Acceptable: Texas Instruments Models below: (Approx. $175)

    TI-83 Plus
    TI-73
    TI-80
    TI-82
    TI-83
    Recommended: Texas Instruments Models TI-83 Plus & higher

    TI-83 Plus
    T1-83 Plus Silver Edition
    TI-84 Plus
    TI-84 Plus Silver Edition
    TI-85
    TI-86
    TI-89
    T1-89 Titanium
    TI-92 Plus
    __________________
    Michael

    CLEP - ISCA 68, Sociology 72, Psych 73, A&I Lit 61, HG&D 65, Ed Psych 70, Marketing 72, Management 69, Macroeconomics 63, Microeconomics 67
    DSST - Intro to Comp 66, MIS 61, Supervision 67, Counseling 58 - no study!, Personal Finance 67, Statistics 60, Criminal Justice 57, Ethics 58, Finance 63 (All A's at EC)
    COC - 2007 (Community College) - Acctg I&II 10c, Work/Study 4c, Intro to Research (Info Lit req) 1c, Society and Rock & Roll 3c, Fund of Music 3c, Guitar I & II - 4c, Bass Guitar I - 2c
    ECE - Ethics (A), HRM (B), Organizational Behavior (B) | CSU - Operations Mgmt. (A) | TECEP - Business Policy 80 (CR)

    My Excelsior Degree Journey

    Bachelor of Science in General Business, cum laude
    Excelsior College
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      #13 (permalink)  
    Old 07-07-2007, 06:36 AM
    blueyzz28 blueyzz28 is offline
    Knight
     
    Join Date: Dec 2006
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    My exam proctor has informed me that I may use a calculator but they provide the calculator. I have informed the testing center, under DSST guidelines, I am allowed to bring my own.

    But if not able to do so, the exam proctor needs to inform me what calculator I will be using. I can not show up the day of the exam and then figure out how to use the calculator!!
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      #14 (permalink)  
    Old 07-08-2007, 01:09 PM
    mstcrow5429 mstcrow5429 is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dhlvrsn
    I think that perhaps we are making more out this than needs to be? The only key that my proctor looked for was something labeled as "program" or "PRGM". The testing center will decide what calculators are acceptable. They don't write down the model number and send it along with the test. That said if you are taking the online version you will only be allowed to use the online calc.

    The study guides state:

    "The use of non-programmable calculators is
    permitted during the test. Scratch paper for
    computations should be provided."
    It's an issue if the proctor refuses to let you use said calculator, or cancels the test results on account of calculator usage. Apparently the testing centers are being told by DSST that only 4-function calculators are acceptable for use, so said testing center are quite likely to decide that whatever calculator you bring in (it would likely have to be older than you are), it's not acceptable.
    __________________
    Excelsior, BS Finance, pursuing degree

    Studying:

    Completed:
    CLEP: Hum. (67), Hist. of U.S. I (74), Hist. of U.S. II (71), Intro. Psych. (69), Intro. Soc. (72), Soc. Sci. and Hist. (74), Western Civ I (72), Western Civ II (70), Am. Lit. (60), Intro. to Educ. Psych. (62), P. of Management (74), P. of Market. (74), Intro. Bus. Law (67), P. of Accounting (60), AmGov (68)
    DSST: Ethics in Am. (76), P. of Super.(67), HRM (65), Intro to Bus. (70), MIS (65), P. of Fin (62), M&B (65), P. of Stat. (68)
    ECE: OB (B)
    TECEP:: IntFin, SecAna

    Total Credits: 114

    Last edited by mstcrow5429 : 07-08-2007 at 01:19 PM.
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      #15 (permalink)  
    Old 07-08-2007, 01:33 PM
    mstcrow5429 mstcrow5429 is offline
    Knight
     
    Join Date: Apr 2007
    Location: Nashua, NH
    Posts: 171
    Default Logical argument against the 4-function calculator only rule

    Sent 7/5/2007:

    '(Please find below my reasoned assessment of the calculator guidelines
    given by the DSST program, and the rationales given for the conclusions
    reached. See attached PDF, page 13 actual, for a copy of the calculator
    guidelines.)

    It does not logically stand to reason that only 4-function calculators
    are acceptable for DSST exams. First, if this was the case, the
    guidelines for acceptable calculators would be excessively redundant.
    It would serve no purpose to state that a calculator does not have a
    full alphabetic display, indicating partial alphabetic displays are
    acceptable. It would not need to be noted that the calculator should be
    nonprogrammable, and lacking a graphical display. No 4-function
    calculator would have any alphabetical display to begin with, and the
    issue of programmability or a graphical display would be a moot point.
    The guidelines, if meant to restrict calculators to 4-function only,
    would only need to say "only a calculator with addition, subtraction,
    division and multiplication is acceptable." Secondly, four-function
    calculators are vestiges of the 1970s. It would not be reasonable for a
    2006 publication to restrict students to calculators decades old, in
    short supply and at relatively expensive prices.

    Examining the guidelines, the last three criteria of "nonprogrammable"
    with no "full alphabetical display" or "graphical display," I believe
    this indicates an imprecise attempt at banning full-fledged computers
    from the test room. As the DSST staff appear unaware of and unable to
    comment on the existing guidelines, I have made a good faith effort to
    properly and correctly apply them to the Casio FX-115ES, which I believe
    is acceptable under the calculator guidelines as written.

    1) "any commercially produced calculator" - the Casio FX-115ES ("the
    calculator") is commercially produced by Casio
    2) "that is battery or solar operated" - the calculator is solar
    operated
    3) "silent" - the calculator has no speaker
    4) "handheld" - the calculator is a handheld device
    5) "nonprogrammable" - the calculator does not have any Boolean logic,
    high-level programming languages such as TI-BASIC. I have interpreted
    the guideline as pertaining to high-level programming languages only, as
    programmability is a wide ranging phenomenon, including direct
    interaction with the calculator, and feature such as M+ and M-. As
    either of these would ban all calculators, they cannot be the case, or
    else there would be no point in creating calculator guidelines.
    6) "does not have either a full alphabetic display or a graphical
    display" - the calculator does not have a full alphabetical display.
    Again, any viewable display is technically graphical in nature.
    However, this would also have the effect of banning all calculators,
    with the same conclusion as point 5. Therefore, I have interpreted
    "graphical display" to mean a display with individual pixel addressing,
    such as a graphing calculator, a PDA, or laptop computer. The
    calculator does not have a display with individually addressed pixels.

    Now, a counter-example, using the Casio CFX-9850GCPlus, a calculator
    that I believe would violate said guidelines:

    5) "nonprogrammable" - this calculator has 64KB of memory. It can store
    user generated programs, programmed in its own proprietary Boolean
    logic-based high-level programming language.
    6) "does not have either a full alphabetic display or a graphical
    display" - the display on the calculator is listed as being "21
    characters x 8 lines." This indicates a fully alphabetical and
    graphically capable display.

    Thank you for your attention to this matter.'

    Received 7/6/2007:

    "I'll check into this further."
    __________________
    Excelsior, BS Finance, pursuing degree

    Studying:

    Completed:
    CLEP: Hum. (67), Hist. of U.S. I (74), Hist. of U.S. II (71), Intro. Psych. (69), Intro. Soc. (72), Soc. Sci. and Hist. (74), Western Civ I (72), Western Civ II (70), Am. Lit. (60), Intro. to Educ. Psych. (62), P. of Management (74), P. of Market. (74), Intro. Bus. Law (67), P. of Accounting (60), AmGov (68)
    DSST: Ethics in Am. (76), P. of Super.(67), HRM (65), Intro to Bus. (70), MIS (65), P. of Fin (62), M&B (65), P. of Stat. (68)
    ECE: OB (B)
    TECEP:: IntFin, SecAna

    Total Credits: 114
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      #16 (permalink)  
    Old 07-08-2007, 01:51 PM
    dhlvrsn dhlvrsn is offline
    Knight
     
    Join Date: Apr 2006
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    Man oh Man! I'm getting my Finance exam over with before you guys get every testing issued it's own dollar store calculator... Has no one heard the addage don't ask, don't tell? Turn this mole into a mountain and everyone will pay the price. Different testing centers will have different issues. Work the issues out with the testing center. If possible find a different testing center. As far as I can see the only grey area right now is whether or not you can have a calculator in the room during an online exam. There the precedent set by CLEP is pretty clear. Only the online calculator is available for use. On the other hand the test info sheet clearly states that you can take a calculator to the exam. This is where things get murky. OK if you limit the online version to only the online calc then people taking the paper exam using their own calculator (the same one I had to buy my 7th grader by the way) do have an advantage if the questions are exactly the same.

    I've got one math intensive test left. It's now my first priority before someone gets their lawyer involved.
    __________________
    Dale H.
    half way...
    Enrolled - BS-BGB Excelsior
    Completed - 65 credits
    Togo - 4 CLEP, 6 DSST, 2 ECE, 1 EC Course, 1 TECEP
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      #17 (permalink)  
    Old 07-08-2007, 03:01 PM
    mstcrow5429 mstcrow5429 is offline
    Knight
     
    Join Date: Apr 2007
    Location: Nashua, NH
    Posts: 171
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dhlvrsn
    Man oh Man! I'm getting my Finance exam over with before you guys get every testing issued it's own dollar store calculator... Has no one heard the addage don't ask, don't tell? Turn this mole into a mountain and everyone will pay the price. Different testing centers will have different issues. Work the issues out with the testing center. If possible find a different testing center. As far as I can see the only grey area right now is whether or not you can have a calculator in the room during an online exam. There the precedent set by CLEP is pretty clear. Only the online calculator is available for use. On the other hand the test info sheet clearly states that you can take a calculator to the exam. This is where things get murky. OK if you limit the online version to only the online calc then people taking the paper exam using their own calculator (the same one I had to buy my 7th grader by the way) do have an advantage if the questions are exactly the same.

    I've got one math intensive test left. It's now my first priority before someone gets their lawyer involved.
    I don't think not asking is an option. Others, including myself, have run into testing centers that believe no calculators are allowed at all. If you don't ask, and you don't find out until you show up at the testing center, it's likely you'll either take the test sans calculator and fail, or be discovered during the test using a calculator, and then have to fight against a score cancellation due to perceived testing irregularities. These are real problems and concerns, and you can't just sweep them under the rug and hope that your testing center is one of the more lenient ones.
    __________________
    Excelsior, BS Finance, pursuing degree

    Studying:

    Completed:
    CLEP: Hum. (67), Hist. of U.S. I (74), Hist. of U.S. II (71), Intro. Psych. (69), Intro. Soc. (72), Soc. Sci. and Hist. (74), Western Civ I (72), Western Civ II (70), Am. Lit. (60), Intro. to Educ. Psych. (62), P. of Management (74), P. of Market. (74), Intro. Bus. Law (67), P. of Accounting (60), AmGov (68)
    DSST: Ethics in Am. (76), P. of Super.(67), HRM (65), Intro to Bus. (70), MIS (65), P. of Fin (62), M&B (65), P. of Stat. (68)
    ECE: OB (B)
    TECEP:: IntFin, SecAna

    Total Credits: 114
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      #18 (permalink)  
    Old 07-09-2007, 01:00 PM
    barcotta's Avatar
    barcotta barcotta is offline
    Lord
     
    Join Date: Feb 2007
    Location: SoCal
    Posts: 485
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dhlvrsn
    Man oh Man! I'm getting my Finance exam over with before you guys get every testing issued it's own dollar store calculator... Has no one heard the addage don't ask, don't tell? Turn this mole into a mountain and everyone will pay the price. Different testing centers will have different issues. Work the issues out with the testing center. If possible find a different testing center. As far as I can see the only grey area right now is whether or not you can have a calculator in the room during an online exam. There the precedent set by CLEP is pretty clear. Only the online calculator is available for use. On the other hand the test info sheet clearly states that you can take a calculator to the exam. This is where things get murky. OK if you limit the online version to only the online calc then people taking the paper exam using their own calculator (the same one I had to buy my 7th grader by the way) do have an advantage if the questions are exactly the same.

    I've got one math intensive test left. It's now my first priority before someone gets their lawyer involved.

    I'm completely on board with you on this concept--but not in this case! I applaud those who are pursuing this aggressively, as it can only help all of us one way or the other. To me--the intent is clear. Why they refuse to spell it out is not clear. Their calculator guidelines, as written, are consistent with SAT, AP etc. guidelines. The testing center interpretations are clearly wrong and given by disinterested parties who are simply playing it safe because they are lazy and/or ... not the sharpest knives in the drawer. I, for one, want to know and have something to back me up before I set foot in the testing center--or even raise the issue.
    __________________
    Michael

    CLEP - ISCA 68, Sociology 72, Psych 73, A&I Lit 61, HG&D 65, Ed Psych 70, Marketing 72, Management 69, Macroeconomics 63, Microeconomics 67
    DSST - Intro to Comp 66, MIS 61, Supervision 67, Counseling 58 - no study!, Personal Finance 67, Statistics 60, Criminal Justice 57, Ethics 58, Finance 63 (All A's at EC)
    COC - 2007 (Community College) - Acctg I&II 10c, Work/Study 4c, Intro to Research (Info Lit req) 1c, Society and Rock & Roll 3c, Fund of Music 3c, Guitar I & II - 4c, Bass Guitar I - 2c
    ECE - Ethics (A), HRM (B), Organizational Behavior (B) | CSU - Operations Mgmt. (A) | TECEP - Business Policy 80 (CR)

    My Excelsior Degree Journey

    Bachelor of Science in General Business, cum laude
    Excelsior College
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      #19 (permalink)  
    Old 07-10-2007, 10:28 AM
    mstcrow5429 mstcrow5429 is offline
    Knight
     
    Join Date: Apr 2007
    Location: Nashua, NH
    Posts: 171
    Default

    On 7/10/2007, I received this in response:

    "We are going to have 4-function calculators available for the DSST exams
    that allow calculators."

    I think this means that they are only allowing their own "4-function" calculators at the exam, and will not allow outside, more advanced calculators, in contravention to the implied standards of the calculator guidelines in the candidate bulletin. Therefore, I have decided to seek out alternative DSST testing centers for exams requiring the use of a calculator.

    As a reference for anyone in the area, the testing center in question is Northern Essex Community College in Haverhill, MA.

    Edit:

    I have sent the following e-mail (same date) to an alternate DSST testing center in my area. I will post the reply when it arrives:

    'Within the next few months, I intend to take the DSST exams "Principles of Finance" and "Principles of Statistics." To prevent any confusion from occurring while taking the
    exams, I will be bringing in my own calculators to the exams, as according to the DSST Candidate Bulletin (see attached PDF file, actual page 13), both the "Principles of Finance" and "Principles of Statistics" exams allow calculators to be used.
    I will be bringing in calculators that I understand fall under the following DSST issued guidelines for acceptable calculators: "An approved calculator is any commercially produced calculator that is battery or solar operated, silent, handheld, nonprogrammable and does not have either a full alphabetic display or a graphical display." It is quite probable that you are fully aware of the above, but another testing center I contacted was wholly unaware that any calculators were allowed on any exams, and I've read reports of other testing centers issuing their own calculator guidelines, in contravention to the published DSST calculator guidelines. Thank you.'
    __________________
    Excelsior, BS Finance, pursuing degree

    Studying:

    Completed:
    CLEP: Hum. (67), Hist. of U.S. I (74), Hist. of U.S. II (71), Intro. Psych. (69), Intro. Soc. (72), Soc. Sci. and Hist. (74), Western Civ I (72), Western Civ II (70), Am. Lit. (60), Intro. to Educ. Psych. (62), P. of Management (74), P. of Market. (74), Intro. Bus. Law (67), P. of Accounting (60), AmGov (68)
    DSST: Ethics in Am. (76), P. of Super.(67), HRM (65), Intro to Bus. (70), MIS (65), P. of Fin (62), M&B (65), P. of Stat. (68)
    ECE: OB (B)
    TECEP:: IntFin, SecAna

    Total Credits: 114

    Last edited by mstcrow5429 : 07-10-2007 at 10:52 AM.
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      #20 (permalink)  
    Old 07-10-2007, 06:42 PM
    mstcrow5429 mstcrow5429 is offline
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    7/10/2007, received this from Granite State College-Manchester (GSC) in reply to the above:

    "Sounds good to me."

    Therefore, if you are in the Boston-Manchester metro area, I would recommend going to GSC for DSST exams that allow calculators.
    __________________
    Excelsior, BS Finance, pursuing degree

    Studying:

    Completed:
    CLEP: Hum. (67), Hist. of U.S. I (74), Hist. of U.S. II (71), Intro. Psych. (69), Intro. Soc. (72), Soc. Sci. and Hist. (74), Western Civ I (72), Western Civ II (70), Am. Lit. (60), Intro. to Educ. Psych. (62), P. of Management (74), P. of Market. (74), Intro. Bus. Law (67), P. of Accounting (60), AmGov (68)
    DSST: Ethics in Am. (76), P. of Super.(67), HRM (65), Intro to Bus. (70), MIS (65), P. of Fin (62), M&B (65), P. of Stat. (68)
    ECE: OB (B)
    TECEP:: IntFin, SecAna

    Total Credits: 114
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