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MY TESU Plan BSBA-CIS to BA CS/MATH
#11
Another alternative to the BSBA is getting an MBA after the BA CS.
Graduate of Not VUL or ENEB
MS, MSS and Graduate Cert
AAS, AS, BA, and BS
CLEP
Intro Psych 70, US His I 64, Intro Soc 63, Intro Edu Psych 70, A&I Lit 64, Bio 68, Prin Man 69, Prin Mar 68
DSST
Life Dev Psych 62, Fund Coun 68, Intro Comp 469, Intro Astr 56, Env & Hum 70, HTYH 456, MIS 451, Prin Sup 453, HRM 62, Bus Eth 458
ALEKS
Int Alg, Coll Alg
TEEX
4 credits
TECEP
Fed Inc Tax, Sci of Nutr, Micro, Strat Man, Med Term, Pub Relations
CSU
Sys Analysis & Design, Programming, Cyber
SL
Intro to Comm, Microbio, Acc I
Uexcel
A&P
Davar
Macro, Intro to Fin, Man Acc
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#12
ttower, you're an "educational credit munching machine!"... good job with the AAS and AA. I noticed the AAS is from ITT as they were Nationally Accredited, so TESU is not going to take the credits from them. However, you've got it covered with the AA from the community college, it should translate to roughly 60 credits.

I see that you're into "two" degrees, "double" majors... If you're looking to have a double concentration for your BSBA. This will work for you as well. I think it'll be sufficient and it'll prepare you for your Masters (MBA or MIS), heck at this rate you're going, you might even be doing "two" Masters one after the other! (Smile).

One thing I want to mention is the Study.com discount, you need to take at least one course from them.
Study.com details: https://www.tesu.edu/studycom/index.cfm
Tution Details - See here: https://www.tesu.edu/studycom/Costs-Tuition.cfm
Transfer: https://www.tesu.edu/studycom/BSBA-Degre...gement.cfm
Study.com Page: http://support.study.com/support/solutio...university-

General Management Area of Specialization
18 credits required, minimum of 12 upper-level credits.
You must take at least 1 course in 3 out of the 4 areas (MAN, ACC, MAR, FIN)

Saylor - Corporate/Managerial Communications - $25
Saylor - Management Information Systems - $25
Straighterline Intermediate Accounting I - (Financial Accounting) - $59
Straighterline Managerial Accounting (transcribed as Cost Accounting) - $59
Straighterline Organizational Behavior - $59
Study.com Digital Marketing & Advertising (UL) - $100

CIS Area of Specialization
18 credits required, minimum of 12 upper-level credits.

Straighterline Introduction to Programming in C++ - $100
CSU Global CBE for Information Systems Analysis and Design (CIS-320) - $250
Saylor Management Information Systems OR Strategic Information Technology (UL) - $25
Saylor Computer Communications and Networking (UL) - $25
Study.com Digital Marketing & Advertising (UL) - ALREADY IN GM (usable in CIS too!)
TEEX Cybersecurity for Business & IT Professionals (4 UL free credits) - FREE

If you have time on your hands, continue on your dream with two degrees - BA CS/Math, BSBA GM/CIS
If you don't, skip what you really don't need, and work on what you want - then continue to the Masters.
Decide if you want to go with a competency-based masters, online masters, or the traditional route.
See what their requirements are and try to get those prerequisites complete for a smooth transition.
In Progress: Walden MBA | TESU BA Biology & Computer Science
Graduate Certificate: Global Management & Entrepreneurship, ASU (Freebie)

Completed: TESU ASNSM Biology, BSBA (ACBSP Accredited 2017)
Universidad Isabel I: ENEB MBA, Big Data & BI, Digital Marketing & E-Commerce
Certs: 6Sigma/Lean/Scrum, ITIL | Cisco/CompTIA/MTA | Coursera/Edx/Udacity

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#13
(11-17-2017, 09:37 PM)bjcheung77 Wrote: ttower, you're an "educational credit munching machine!"... good job with the AAS and AA.  I noticed the AAS is from ITT as they were Nationally Accredited, so TESU is not going to take the credits from them.  However, you've got it covered with the AA from the community college, it should translate to roughly 60 credits.

I see that you're into "two" degrees, "double" majors... If you're looking to have a double concentration for your BSBA. This will work for you as well.  I think it'll be sufficient and it'll prepare you for your Masters (MBA or MIS), heck at this rate you're going, you might even be doing "two" Masters one after the other! (Smile).

One thing I want to mention is the Study.com discount, you need to take at least one course from them.  
Study.com details: https://www.tesu.edu/studycom/index.cfm
Tution Details - See here: https://www.tesu.edu/studycom/Costs-Tuition.cfm
Transfer: https://www.tesu.edu/studycom/BSBA-Degre...gement.cfm
Study.com Page: http://support.study.com/support/solutio...university-

General Management Area of Specialization
18 credits required, minimum of 12 upper-level credits.
You must take at least 1 course in 3 out of the 4 areas (MAN, ACC, MAR, FIN)

Saylor - Corporate/Managerial Communications - $25
Saylor - Management Information Systems - $25
Straighterline Intermediate Accounting I - (Financial Accounting) - $59
Straighterline Managerial Accounting (transcribed as Cost Accounting) - $59
Straighterline Organizational Behavior - $59
Study.com Digital Marketing & Advertising (UL) - $100

CIS Area of Specialization
18 credits required, minimum of 12 upper-level credits.

Straighterline Introduction to Programming in C++ - $100
CSU Global CBE for Information Systems Analysis and Design (CIS-320) - $250
Saylor Management Information Systems OR Strategic Information Technology (UL) - $25
Saylor Computer Communications and Networking (UL) - $25
Study.com Digital Marketing & Advertising (UL) - ALREADY IN GM (usable in CIS too!)
TEEX Cybersecurity for Business & IT Professionals (4 UL free credits) - FREE

If you have time on your hands, continue on your dream with two degrees - BA CS/Math, BSBA GM/CIS
If you don't, skip what you really don't need, and work on what you want - then continue to the Masters.
Decide if you want to go with a competency-based masters, online masters, or the traditional route.  
See what their requirements are and try to get those prerequisites complete for a smooth transition.

So, it appears that the Double concentration of GM and CIS is possible. Looks like if someone wanted to double major BSBA that CIS fits the least with all the other concentrations. I don't see myself taking those 5 extra courses before wanting to jump into the CS.

I may pursue a Masters after the 2 degrees. One option I have thought about was the WGU Math to Educator Master's. But, that could change. They company will reimburse for the Master's Degree also up to a total of $25k. They also have a few large discounts available for some specific degrees. Notre Dame Data Science Masters and Georgia Tech CS Masters. I think they are 25% and 40% discounts.

I have a few months before I need to decide on that next step.

The ITT tech degree was an associates that was equal to about 100 credit hours of work. I completed that degree before I turned 20 years old. I did not have the transcripts sent to TESU for a couple of reason. First off, I knew that I would not get any credit towards any of the degrees I was interested in. Secondly, since they have declared bankruptcy there seems to be issues getting any transcripts for any graduate before 1999 or 2000. They did not go to electronic until about this time. The bankruptcy seems to have put a freeze on any other items(Paper documents) until a resolution can be found. I was told I may be able to go to the State board and get a transcript but why bother if I will not receive credit.
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#14
So, I have gotten my Major changed and have the new evaluation. Though, I have not yet talked with an advisor. Here are the 2 evals and what it appears I need for both. I am in process of taking a look at which path is better/cheaper/easier to accomplish both degrees WITH ADDING the Math DM which if done right should only add Five 3 credit hour math classes.


CS EVAL needs
Info Lit                 2 Credits
Ethics                   3 Credits
Civic Engagement   3 Credits

Intro Computer      3 Credits
Data Structures      3 Credits
Discrete/Linear     3  Credits
Calc II                2 Credits
COMP SCI          3 C
Comp Sci            3 C
Comp Sci UL       3 C
Comp Sci UL       3 C
Comp Sci UL       3 C
Comp Sci UL       3 C
Comp Sci UL       3 C
CAPSTONE         3 C

CIS EVAL NEEDS
Info Lit              2 C
Ethics                3 C
Civic Engagement    3 C

Business Law     3 C
Intro Finance     3 C
Intro Management   3 C
Intro Marketing  3 C
Business/Society 3 C
MicroEcon         3 C
Managerial Comm  3 C
Programming       3 C
Sys Ana& Design  3 C
CIS UL                3 C
CIS UL                3 C
CIS UL                3 C
CIS UL                3 C
CAPSTONE          3 C
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#15
(11-23-2017, 12:38 PM)ttower Wrote: So, I have gotten my Major changed and have the new evaluation. Though, I have not yet talked with an advisor. Here are the 2 evals and what it appears I need for both. I am in process of taking a look at which path is better/cheaper/easier to accomplish both degrees WITH ADDING the Math DM which if done right should only add Five 3 credit hour math classes.


CS EVAL needs
Info Lit                 2 Credits
Ethics                   3 Credits
Civic Engagement   3 Credits

Intro Computer      3 Credits
Data Structures      3 Credits
Discrete/Linear     3  Credits
Calc II                2 Credits
COMP SCI          3 C
Comp Sci            3 C
Comp Sci UL       3 C
Comp Sci UL       3 C
Comp Sci UL       3 C
Comp Sci UL       3 C
Comp Sci UL       3 C
CAPSTONE         3 C

CIS EVAL NEEDS
Info Lit              2 C
Ethics                3 C
Civic Engagement    3 C

Business Law     3 C
Intro Finance     3 C
Intro Management   3 C
Intro Marketing  3 C
Business/Society 3 C
MicroEcon         3 C
Managerial Comm  3 C
Programming       3 C
Sys Ana& Design  3 C
CIS UL                3 C
CIS UL                3 C
CIS UL                3 C
CIS UL                3 C
CAPSTONE          3 C

CIS is going to be MUCH cheaper.  Almost all of these courses can be had for $100 or less per course - some for $25 through Saylor.  With the CS, the courses are going to cost $500-$1000 each.  And some of the AOS courses have to be taken in order (prereqs).  So it will be slower as well.

So if you're looking at cheaper/faster, CIS is the way to go.

What you really need to figure out is which degree is going to take you on the path that you want to go.  If you want to be a SW developer, for instance, a CIS degree won't get you the job.
TESU BSBA/HR 2018 - WVNCC BOG AAS 2017 - GGU Cert in Mgmt 2000
EXAMS: TECEP Tech Wrtg, Comp II, LA Math, PR, Computers  DSST Computers, Pers Fin  CLEP Mgmt, Mktg
COURSES: TESU Capstone  Study.com Pers Fin, Microecon, Stats  Ed4Credit Acct 2  PF Fin Mgmt  ALEKS Int & Coll Alg  Sophia Proj Mgmt The Institutes - Ins Ethics  Kaplan PLA
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#16
(Apologies for the length, but I think I have a bit of insight into this decision for you...)

For what its worth, I actually completed all of the requirements for both the BSBA CIS and BA CS degrees, but I will only officially be awarded the BA CS. This is because I completed all the requirements for the CIS first and then switched majors because I was unsatisfied. I am quite grumpy that I put in all that work and cannot graduate with both degrees, but that was my decision and at least the coursework will be on my transcript.

In the end I am far more satisfied with the CS than I was with the CIS, and I believe it will take me much farther than the CIS degree would. The CIS degree teaches business fundamentals and what amounts to a few computer and programming concepts. The CS degree requires more math but it is absolutely worth it in my opinion because it changes how you look at everything.

Others are correct, the CIS will be much easier and much less demanding overall than the CS degree, and CIS is much more flexible in terms of sources of credit than the CS degree. This is largely because many of the courses are generic business courses that have many options. If I were making your decision I would consider the CS first, because not only is it more expensive and more restrictive in terms of coursework but also once it is complete the CIS courses will be almost simplistic in comparison.

For example, I took the CIS database class at TESU and it was horribly easy in comparison to the CS coursework. The end project simply had students create a couple of tables in Access and populate them with maybe five rows, then write a couple of SELECT queries. The course is geared towards business students since it is a CIS course. The textbook covered much more than the projects tested, but the book is written to give a business management understanding of databases, not a deep technical understanding.

The level of forum discussion was also dramatically different between the business and CS courses. There were overachievers and coasters in both, but generally speaking there was a much higher percentage of generic copy/paste BS posts in the business courses than the CS ones. The senior-level business courses were packed with fluff comments that served no purpose other than to check the box of minimum number of comments per week. The CS courses generally had a higher signal-to-noise ratio. (Exploiting this difference can be strategically useful, since it can be easier for you to "coast" through the business/CIS courses especially since the material is easier after learning the CS stuff.)

Also keep in mind the issue of capstones. The capstones in the two programs are very different. In the CIS program the capstone is a strategic management course that is effectively an advanced marketing and organizational leadership course. You will read a textbook and analyze many case studies and write papers answering questions about each. We were told to act as if we were writing reports to the CEO of a company. The "reports" require you to analyze accounting sheets, conduct your own open-source market analysis, etc. and synthesize the information. The final report is a 10 page single-spaced report on a major topic. Our topic was whether Google should remain in the Chinese mobile market or withdraw, and if it remained what strategies it should pursue.

For comparison, the CS capstone is really the Liberal Arts capstone which is completely open-ended. You pick the topic and research questions you want to answer and then conduct guided research of journal articles etc. on your own. The mentor guides you in following the predefined five-chapter format. The paper is 25 pages minimum (double spaced). Most students were running at or just over double that length. Mine was 72 pages. The advantage of the LA capstone is you can pick any topic you want, it doesn't have to be CS related, and in fact your mentor will probably have a PhD in English or similar. My opinion is that this is a chance to conduct your own guided study semester into topics not covered elsewhere. You can see the free e-book they created for the course in the LA capstone syllabus, it shows how the thesis (that's what it basically is) must be constructed. There is no deviation allowed from this format, which is good and bad.

(Remember if you pursue both degrees you will have to complete both capstones!)

Finally I should note that I'm in a different position than many, with my college 100% paid for (one bachelor degree) and quite a few credits transferred in from an AAS. So that made it much less expensive to fiddle with my degree since I really only had to pay for books. I should also note I spent a lot of time studying the texts deeply -- the business texts can be very skimmable, not so much the CS and even some CIS texts, the information density is far higher -- as well as studying ancillary materials like long-form lectures on Youtube (ProfLeonard for calculus is amazing, and some of the MIT OCW for CS likewise) and other books. Also one particular reason I am so satisfied is that I went transient to another online school (UMUC) for three courses not offered at TESU. If you pursue the CS degree and are interested and have the opportunity to go transient for outside UL coursework like that I highly recommend doing so. (e.g. normal CS curriculums require algorithm analysis which TESU doesn't have) 

All in all I'm glad that I completed the business coursework because I had always wanted to learn that material -- I learned quite a bit from it (including the fact that accounting sucks) and it changed the way I view management and organizations. That perspective can pay off if you are pursuing things like a CISSP cert or a more management-oriented grad school. But I am far more satisfied that I switched to the BA CS. It will hold more weight and was a much more fulfilling challenge personally. In hindsight if I were to do both though it would have been easier to do CS first, then coast through CIS.

Hope that helps and good luck with your choices!
Community-Supported Wiki(link approved by forum admin)

Complete: TESU BA Computer Science
2011-2013 completed all BSBA CIS requirements except 4 gen eds.
2013 switched major to CS, then took a couple years off suddenly.
2015-2017 finished the CS.

CCAF: AAS Comp Sci
CLEP (10): A&I Lit, College Composition Modular, College Math, Financial Accounting, Marketing, Management, Microecon, Sociology, Psychology, Info Systems
DSST (4): Public Speaking, Business Ethics, Finance, MIS

ALEKS (3): College Algebra, Trig, Stats
UMUC (3): Comparative programming languages, Signal & Image Processing, Analysis of Algorithms
TESU (11): English Comp, Business Law, Macroecon, Managerial Accounting, Strategic Mgmt (BSBA Capstone), C++, Data Structures, Calc I/II, Discrete Math, BA Capstone

Warning: BA Capstone is a thesis, mine was 72 pages about a cryptography topic

Wife pursuing Public Admin cert via CSU.
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#17
(12-10-2017, 12:06 PM)dcan Wrote: In the end I am far more satisfied with the CS than I was with the CIS, and I believe it will take me much farther than the CIS degree would. The CIS degree teaches business fundamentals and what amounts to a few computer and programming concepts. The CS degree requires more math but it is absolutely worth it in my opinion because it changes how you look at everything.

Others are correct, the CIS will be much easier and much less demanding overall than the CS degree, and CIS is much more flexible in terms of sources of credit than the CS degree. This is largely because many of the courses are generic business courses that have many options. If I were making your decision I would consider the CS first, because not only is it more expensive and more restrictive in terms of coursework but also once it is complete the CIS courses will be almost simplistic in comparison.

The 2 different degrees are hard to compare: a Business degree vs. a Computer Science degree.  The business degree with a CIS concentration is still a business degree.  I don't think anyone here will try to tell you that they are comparable in any way - it just completely depends on what your end goal is.
TESU BSBA/HR 2018 - WVNCC BOG AAS 2017 - GGU Cert in Mgmt 2000
EXAMS: TECEP Tech Wrtg, Comp II, LA Math, PR, Computers  DSST Computers, Pers Fin  CLEP Mgmt, Mktg
COURSES: TESU Capstone  Study.com Pers Fin, Microecon, Stats  Ed4Credit Acct 2  PF Fin Mgmt  ALEKS Int & Coll Alg  Sophia Proj Mgmt The Institutes - Ins Ethics  Kaplan PLA
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#18
(12-10-2017, 05:59 PM)dfrecore Wrote: The 2 different degrees are hard to compare: a Business degree vs. a Computer Science degree.  The business degree with a CIS concentration is still a business degree.  I don't think anyone here will try to tell you that they are comparable in any way - it just completely depends on what your end goal is.

This is exactly correct. The focus of the two degrees is very different. The bulk of the BSBA consists of your core business courses whereas the bulk of the CS degree consists of more technical courses and a few more math courses. The best analogy I could think of to compare them is "broad" vs "deep" -- beyond that they are pretty different degrees with a different focus.

Another option is to complete the CS degree then pursue an MBA or other master's degree. There is a growing niche of terminal master's degrees for career professionals, called a Professional Science Master's degree, that may be an even better fit. It is specifically designed for those transitioning away from "hands-on" work to a leadership role, but is not exclusively focused on business like an MBA though it does incorporate similar concepts. The "MBA of the sciences" for those who are moving into high-level technical leadership positions, blending in a lot of "business/workforce" type soft skills into the coursework.

From https://www.npsma.org/

Quote:The Professional Science Master’s (PSM) program is a two-year graduate program designed to fill a management need for technology-based companies, governmental agencies, and non-profit organizations. Students pursue advanced training in science, while simultaneously developing valued business skills. Professional Science Master’s programs combine rigorous study in science or mathematics with coursework in management, policy, or law. Professional Science Master’s programs emphasize writing and communication skills, and many include project management.  Most PSM programs require a final project or team experience, as well as an internship in a business or public sector enterprise.

There are PSM degrees available at several colleges. They are terminal degrees, just like an MBA.
Community-Supported Wiki(link approved by forum admin)

Complete: TESU BA Computer Science
2011-2013 completed all BSBA CIS requirements except 4 gen eds.
2013 switched major to CS, then took a couple years off suddenly.
2015-2017 finished the CS.

CCAF: AAS Comp Sci
CLEP (10): A&I Lit, College Composition Modular, College Math, Financial Accounting, Marketing, Management, Microecon, Sociology, Psychology, Info Systems
DSST (4): Public Speaking, Business Ethics, Finance, MIS

ALEKS (3): College Algebra, Trig, Stats
UMUC (3): Comparative programming languages, Signal & Image Processing, Analysis of Algorithms
TESU (11): English Comp, Business Law, Macroecon, Managerial Accounting, Strategic Mgmt (BSBA Capstone), C++, Data Structures, Calc I/II, Discrete Math, BA Capstone

Warning: BA Capstone is a thesis, mine was 72 pages about a cryptography topic

Wife pursuing Public Admin cert via CSU.
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#19
Dcan, Thank you for the in-depth analysis of your view on the degree options. I especially like the differentiation of the Capstones and believe your writing could be a post upon itself.

I have a few reasons for going about the 2 degrees in this way.

First, I do not currently need either degree. I have been able to stay away from going into the management side of the house for now. I really like being the hands on guy and getting the work done. Also, watching my supervisor basically turn in to an observe, review, file it person make me want to stay here for now.

Second, If I were to start with the CS degree, and then cruise the CIS I believe the time frame would be longer. This is because I still need a few NON-AOS courses and many of the CS courses are dependent on prereq courses. As you said, many of the CS courses are more in-depth and can take a little more work to complete. So, I believe I can complete AOS and Non-AOS courses in CIS concurrently. The plan is to have 21-27 credits between now and end of February which would be difficult doing CS courses at the same time.
 
Next, It kind of just works out that I will still have just enough Credits to Gain for the CS.  Since most of those credits are more difficult to find, I may end up taking a couple local or at a higher priced online school. The CS degree will be reimbursed from my work. Reimbursement will pay 5k per year. Starting the CS in July is what I am hoping and getting in 3 to 5 classes paid. This should leave just a few classes for early 2019(if I want to get reimbursed).

Here are my options if I want both degrees. But, I think if I feel as you, I would complete the CS and not really care about the CIS(a possibility).

        Option 1- complete CIS for under $3500 between now and June 2018. Then start CS and get  $5,000 reimbursed between July and Dec 2018, and another $5,000 for any in 2019.

        Option 2- Start CS, complete as much CS courses and get $5,000 reimburse, work on Non-AOS($100 courses) for rest of 2018. Finish CS courses in early 2019. If I still want 2nd degree, I will finish 4-6 months later. (This looks like the longer option.)
 
Some other background, my employer has several online courses through their own learning portal(free on my own time) and I have taken classes through them on Python, Ruby, Rails, Hadoop, and Sql plus some others. Some of these are good and some not so much.


Thanks for the replies. 
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#20
(12-15-2017, 04:05 PM)ttower Wrote:         Option 1- complete CIS for under $3500 between now and June 2018. Then start CS and get  $5,000 reimbursed between July and Dec 2018, and another $5,000 for any in 2019.

        Option 2- Start CS, complete as much CS courses and get $5,000 reimburse, work on Non-AOS($100 courses) for rest of 2018. Finish CS courses in early 2019. If I still want 2nd degree, I will finish 4-6 months later. (This looks like the longer option.)
 

Thanks for the replies. 

Just an FYI - I am currently completing the BSBA Capstone, and it is not an easy course.  In 12 weeks, I have written 7 4-page papers, 6 2-page discussions, taken a midterm, and am working on my final 20-page paper now.  If you are not fairly motivated, you are going to have a hard time getting through this final course to get your degree.  Honestly, it sucks.  Why anyone would get this if they didn't really want it is beyond me.
TESU BSBA/HR 2018 - WVNCC BOG AAS 2017 - GGU Cert in Mgmt 2000
EXAMS: TECEP Tech Wrtg, Comp II, LA Math, PR, Computers  DSST Computers, Pers Fin  CLEP Mgmt, Mktg
COURSES: TESU Capstone  Study.com Pers Fin, Microecon, Stats  Ed4Credit Acct 2  PF Fin Mgmt  ALEKS Int & Coll Alg  Sophia Proj Mgmt The Institutes - Ins Ethics  Kaplan PLA
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