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11-yr-old’s Ultimate Goal: phd Theoretical Mathematics
#1
Help!! My preteen son’s goal is a phd in theoretical mathematics. He wants to also be a college math professor. I know nothing about that career plan, but my guess is he needs to get an undergrad degree at school that ISN'T the big three (there went our planning for a math degree from TESU-which he likely could have accomplushed by 19!) I have struggled to find even anyone with a phd in any math, let alone theoretical math, in which to pick his or her brain. My son currently wants to get as much college credit under my roof as possible... he has passed two CLEPs already, can take his third within a few weeks, then work on a 4-5th over the summer. HOWEVER, if he NEEDS to get his undrgrad from a more prestigious uni, are we up a creek without a paddle? Dualcredit is exoensive locally, and the online schools where is is less expensive don't even have the same courses needed for our local four year university (with a good math program in case he wants to go there). I feel super stuck. My son is motivated, homeschooled, and gifted. He is taking Pre Cal at home and will be looking at dual credit or AP science this year too. He does not want to graduate high school more than a year early currently. He attends a classical co-op that he loves and which is good for him on too of other higher level work at home. We are low income and cannot afford lots of dual crefit even if they offered the same courses he needs. I feel really stuck. Is there anyone who can point me in the right direction for a kid like this? Does it MATTER where he gets his undergrad, first off?! Will he NOT be able to-get into a good masters or phd program for math if he graduates for TESU or even a state school?
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#2
============
Columbia University
https://www.math.columbia.edu/programs-m...d-to-know/

"Below are listed basic topics from various areas of mathematics. ... on the assumption that all entering Ph.D. students are familiar with all these topics"

Linear Algebra:
Abstract Algebra:
Point-set Topology:
Calculus:
Complex Analysis:
Real Analysis:
===========
Cornell University
https://math.cornell.edu/graduate-admiss...pplication

Mastery of the material required for an undergraduate major in mathematics, including a rigorous course in advanced calculus and real variable theory that will serve as an introduction to measure theory and courses in linear algebra and modern abstract algebra at an advanced level. Applicants should also have some familiarity with applications of advanced calculus. Most successful applicants score 700 or above on their GRE subject test.
===============
New York University
https://math.nyu.edu/dynamic/phd/admissi...-policies/

All applicants must have earned (or be about to complete) a B.A. or B.S. or the equivalent. They must have taken three semesters of college-level calculus, including one semester of advanced calculus or linear algebra or the equivalent. Students who do not have the advanced calculus course may be required to take the course MATH-GA 1002 Multivariable Analysis.

As previously emphasized, these are the very minimum requirements; additional undergraduate coursework in mathematics is desirable. Courses in analysis, linear algebra, complex variables, partial and ordinary differential equations, and probability theory are especially helpful.
=======================

you could probably get a degree at TESU, but I doubt they have all the courses

so you'd have to do courses elsewhere and transfer them into TESU

her's a bunch of advanced online courses
https://open.suny.edu/courses/search?s=M...ergraduate

but unless your kid's a super genius he should probably go to a brick & mortar school so he can get more personal instruction and faster feedback
============

> We are low income

public universities are MUCH less expensive than private schools
and you get a tuition discount for being a resident of the state
so check out public universities in your state
Reply
#3
First, what state do you live in?
Second, you'd probably be better off at HomeschoolingForCollegeCredit.com to find out about homeschooling in your state and the options you have.

Third, there aren't enough UL math courses to get a degree at one of the Big 3, so they're not really an option.

I think your best bet is a BA in Math at your local state school, where he will qualify for financial aid, possibly covering his entire tuition for 4 years. Between grants, scholarships, and a part time job, he can probably get through without any debt. If he could live at home, that would certainly help.

There are mainly 2 ways to shorten the BA path when going the traditional route: 1) You should have him take AP exams if the schools nearby allow it. They don't HAVE to, so you have to find a place for him to take AP exams ahead of time (they are only given once a year, for 2 weeks in May, and you have to register in advance). So you need to know where you're going to take them, and that is not always an easy thing to find; 2) Make sure that the state schools you're looking at accepts CLEP, and possibly DSST exams. Then, you could incorporate CLEP into your homeschooling plan, to get him as much college credit as possible. Schools usually accept unlimited AP credit, but may limit the CLEP/DSST credit (in CA, they will only take 30cr of CLEP), so AP is definitely a better first choice, with CLEP being a distant 2nd.

The last thing to look at is a CC, with a transfer to a state school. That would decrease your costs considerably in most states.
TESU BSBA in HR, 2018
WVNCC BOG AAS,
 2017
GGU Cert in Management, 2000

EXAMS: TECEP Tech Writg, Engl Comp 2, LA Math, Public Rel, Computers  DSST Computers, Pers Fin  CLEP Mgmt, Mktg
COURSES: TESU Capstone  Study.com Pers Fin, Microecon, Stats  Ed4Credit Acct 2  PF Fin Mgmt  ALEKS Int Alg, Coll Alg  Sophia Proj Mgmt The Institutes - Ins Ethics  Kaplan PLA
B&M COURSESPalomar CollMission Coll, Golden Gate Univ, San Jose State Univ
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  • hsfamfun
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#4
(03-07-2019, 11:42 AM)bluebooger Wrote: ============
Columbia University
https://www.math.columbia.edu/programs-m...d-to-know/

"Below are listed basic topics from various areas of mathematics. ... on the assumption that all entering Ph.D. students are familiar with all these topics"

Linear Algebra:
Abstract Algebra:
Point-set Topology:
Calculus:
Complex Analysis:
Real Analysis:
===========
Cornell University
https://math.cornell.edu/graduate-admiss...pplication

Mastery of the material required for an undergraduate major in mathematics, including a rigorous course in advanced calculus and real variable theory that will serve as an introduction to measure theory and courses in linear algebra and modern abstract algebra at an advanced level. Applicants should also have some familiarity with applications of advanced calculus. Most successful applicants score 700 or above on their GRE subject test.
===============
New York University
https://math.nyu.edu/dynamic/phd/admissi...-policies/

All applicants must have earned (or be about to complete) a B.A. or B.S. or the equivalent. They must have taken three semesters of college-level calculus, including one semester of advanced calculus or linear algebra or the equivalent. Students who do not have the advanced calculus course may be required to take the course MATH-GA 1002 Multivariable Analysis.

As previously emphasized, these are the very minimum requirements; additional undergraduate coursework in mathematics is desirable. Courses in analysis, linear algebra, complex variables, partial and ordinary differential equations, and probability theory are especially helpful.
=======================

you could probably get a degree at TESU, but I doubt they have all the courses

so you'd have to do courses elsewhere and transfer them into TESU

her's a bunch of advanced online courses
https://open.suny.edu/courses/search?s=M...ergraduate

but unless your kid's a super genius he should probably go to a brick & mortar school so he can get more personal instruction and faster feedback
============

> We are low income

public universities are MUCH less expensive than private schools
and you get a tuition discount for being a resident of the state  
so check out public universities in your state
He can get the upper level courses locally or online then transfer in. That doesn't concern me. But all the other non-math courses.. SO MUCH time and money could be saved if he could do those via exams, study.com, etc. He LOVES math and wants to ficus on math and not spend so much time on humanities, ect. 

I fully believe he could get into our local  uni (University of Texas Tyler) on a full merit freshman scholarship. He is profoundly gifted and a great test taker, even now at age 11. His goal is a 36 ACT and he just took a practice test this week with a 32 composite.. so assuming that translates roughly to his real score that he will take in June, I do not see why he could not get very close or hit his 36 goal by age 16-17. HOWEVER.. he wants to start now. He wants to not wait until he is 17 or 18 and graduated high school. Hence the desire to get as much lower credits out of the way via exams. 

Seethe dilemma?
Reply
#5
I wouldn't necessarily rule out a TESU Math degree. I've read extensively about Ph.D programs, and almost everything I've read carries the refrain: it doesn't matter where you did your undergraduate degree. The bigger issue with a TESU math degree is that there aren't a lot of options for within the major, but it's still possible that transferring into their program may be cheaper because he can knock out all the GenEd/Electives for extremely cheap, leaving you only the major to worry about.

He'll want to focus on graded credit within the major, which isn't really a problem given that you have limited options for alternative credit anyway. I don't think doing the Calculus CLEP for the Calculus 1 requirement would hurt (don't think a math grad program is going to care too much about your grade on Calc 1 once you've done well in advanced math), but for the most part you'll want regionally-accredited credits.

Not sure if they enroll minors, but APU has a lot of math courses that would transfer to TESU.

Now, I'm not saying that TESU is your best bet, but I don't think you should throw it out.
Link to all credits earned: Link
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#6
(03-07-2019, 12:08 PM)dfrecore Wrote: First, what state do you live in?
Second, you'd probably be better off at HomeschoolingForCollegeCredit.com to find out about homeschooling in your state and the options you have.

Third, there aren't enough UL math courses to get a degree at one of the Big 3, so they're not really an option.

I think your best bet is a BA in Math at your local state school, where he will qualify for financial aid, possibly covering his entire tuition for 4 years.  Between grants, scholarships, and a part time job, he can probably get through without any debt.  If he could live at home, that would certainly help.

There are mainly 2 ways to shorten the BA path when going the traditional route: 1) You should have him take AP exams if the schools nearby allow it.  They don't HAVE to, so you have to find a place for him to take AP exams ahead of time (they are only given once a year, for 2 weeks in May, and you have to register in advance).  So you need to know where you're going to take them, and that is not always an easy thing to find; 2) Make sure that the state schools you're looking at accepts CLEP, and possibly DSST exams.  Then, you could incorporate CLEP into your homeschooling plan, to get him as much college credit as possible.  Schools usually accept unlimited AP credit, but may limit the CLEP/DSST credit (in CA, they will only take 30cr of CLEP), so AP is definitely a better first choice, with CLEP being a distant 2nd.

The last thing to look at is a CC, with a transfer to a state school.  That would decrease your costs considerably in most states.
[font=.SF UI Text][font=.SFUIText]1. Texas[/font][/font]
[font=.SF UI Text][font=.SFUIText]2. I am on all those forums and facebook groups. Homeschooling is  easy in Texas, but we do not get free or even reduced dual credit mostly so that is hard. The local university that can offer those UL maths, University of Texas in Tyler, does NOT accept many community colleges dual credit classes, it has different class codes. I do not know why, but it is super frustrating. Also, the DE classes locally are very expensive, $400+ for 3 credits. [/font][/font]
  1. [font=.SF UI Text][font=.SFUIText]TESU would be an option because he could transfer in those UL courses from another college. [/font][/font]
  2. [font=.SF UI Text][font=.SFUIText]He is very gifted and a good test taker. I am pretty confident he could get a full ride at for a BS in math at UT Tyler at age 18 unless he wanted to graduate high school earlier. But again, UNTIL THEN, we feel stuck. He WANTS to get a degree earlier BUT currently does NOT want to graduate high school early. He does not want to WAIT to do his lower level classes. He wants to do them in the next few years so he can focus on high level maths later. [/font][/font]
  3. [font=.SF UI Text][font=.SFUIText]I emailed the admission to our local uni yesterday. I know they do accept CLEP and AP no DSST as he has taken a few CLEPS there already and it is listed on their site.. but I don’t know yet HOW MANY cbes they accept. Will look at AP too, its more expensive though as he can do CLEP for very cheap. [/font][/font]

(03-07-2019, 12:26 PM)mysonx3 Wrote: I wouldn't necessarily rule out a TESU Math degree. I've read extensively about Ph.D programs, and almost everything I've read carries the refrain: it doesn't matter where you did your undergraduate degree. The bigger issue with a TESU math degree is that there aren't a lot of options for within the major, but it's still possible that transferring into their program may be cheaper because he can knock out all the GenEd/Electives for extremely cheap, leaving you only the major to worry about.

He'll want to focus on graded credit within the major, which isn't really a problem given that you have limited options for alternative credit anyway. I don't think doing the Calculus CLEP for the Calculus 1 requirement would hurt (don't think a math grad program is going to care too much about your grade on Calc 1 once you've done well in advanced math), but for the most part you'll want regionally-accredited credits.

Not sure if they enroll minors, but APU has a lot of math courses that would transfer to TESU.

Now, I'm not saying that TESU is your best bet, but I don't think you should throw it out.
Thank you. Yes, I know that most of the math classes will have to be graded, which will be good for masters or phd programs. I am just wondering if they look at the school and toss the application. This concerns me.
Reply
#7
So Modern States was reimbursing for AP exams in the past, you're going to want to check on those. Keep your receipts for the exam as well as any fees, and then submit them to MS and you'll get the entire amount back. We are actually in the process of seeing if this is still the case, I'll try to update when I find out.

You cannot get financial aid when you're still a HS student, so your best bet is to wait for college for that. So his best bet at this point is AP and CLEP. They don't say if they have a maximum number of CLEP credit you can take, so you should try to find that out. https://www.uttyler.edu/registrar/credit...nation.php

If your kid is in the position of getting a full-ride scholarship, you should NOT be looking at TESU. Not that there's anything wrong with the school, but honestly, your state school is going to be free, while TESU won't no matter what. There is zero sense planning a degree from there.

Now, if you want him to take tons of CLEP exams, and he has free vouchers (don't forget to keep receipts for the testing center fees for reimbursement), then by all means do so. The worst thing that can happen is he reaches a max, or doesn't have a place to put the credits. But it's certainly easy enough to put the "proof" of college-level work on his HS transcript by showing his CLEP exam score.

Honestly, your best bet is to plan out a BA in Math degree at your local school, take as many AP exams as possible (if possible), take CLEP exams, and then hope for that financial aid/scholarship for the free degree with a bunch of credits already taken.

Last but not least, there's nothing stopping you from taking all of the free stuff that's ACE/NCCRS approved. But, there's not a lot out there. If you have limited funds, I wouldn't waste them on ACE stuff where it's unlikely to be accepted. But free, definitely.

Free Courses:
Ethics and the CPCU Code of Professional Conduct (ACE#AICP-0121, Ethics 312)
TEEX Cybersecurity courses
Sophia - Developing Effective Teams & The Essentials of Managing Conflict
Saylor - courses are free, exams are $25 (although I've heard you can get them for free if you have your own proctor, don't quote me on that).
OnlineDegree.com - courses are free, exams are $9
TESU BSBA in HR, 2018
WVNCC BOG AAS,
 2017
GGU Cert in Management, 2000

EXAMS: TECEP Tech Writg, Engl Comp 2, LA Math, Public Rel, Computers  DSST Computers, Pers Fin  CLEP Mgmt, Mktg
COURSES: TESU Capstone  Study.com Pers Fin, Microecon, Stats  Ed4Credit Acct 2  PF Fin Mgmt  ALEKS Int Alg, Coll Alg  Sophia Proj Mgmt The Institutes - Ins Ethics  Kaplan PLA
B&M COURSESPalomar CollMission Coll, Golden Gate Univ, San Jose State Univ
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#8
so you seem to know that school takes a ton of CLEP and AP exams
https://www.uttyler.edu/registrar/credit...nation.php

so all the non-math courses can be done that way

he could probably complete the entire core just with CLEP
https://www.uttyler.edu/math/undergrad/c...cklist.pdf

and the CLEP Calculus even substitutes for one of the calculus courses in the BS Math program
https://www.uttyler.edu/math/undergrad/program.php


there's lots of ways to learn math now

this guy has a great playlist that teaches you to code with javascript and not only learn math, but draw graphs and things on screen
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...698tmcwLk9

this guy has great math videos
http://patrickjmt.com/

khan has a full set of math tutorials
https://www.khanacademy.org/math

coursera has some great courses (all non-credit, and they cost between $49 and $79 a month, but they supposedly have financial aid)
https://www.coursera.org/specializations...e-learning

https://www.coursera.org/specializations...athematics
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#9
(03-07-2019, 12:19 PM)TorsMama Wrote:
(03-07-2019, 11:42 AM)bluebooger Wrote: ============
Columbia University
https://www.math.columbia.edu/programs-m...d-to-know/

"Below are listed basic topics from various areas of mathematics. ... on the assumption that all entering Ph.D. students are familiar with all these topics"

Linear Algebra:
Abstract Algebra:
Point-set Topology:
Calculus:
Complex Analysis:
Real Analysis:
===========
Cornell University
https://math.cornell.edu/graduate-admiss...pplication

Mastery of the material required for an undergraduate major in mathematics, including a rigorous course in advanced calculus and real variable theory that will serve as an introduction to measure theory and courses in linear algebra and modern abstract algebra at an advanced level. Applicants should also have some familiarity with applications of advanced calculus. Most successful applicants score 700 or above on their GRE subject test.
===============
New York University
https://math.nyu.edu/dynamic/phd/admissi...-policies/

All applicants must have earned (or be about to complete) a B.A. or B.S. or the equivalent. They must have taken three semesters of college-level calculus, including one semester of advanced calculus or linear algebra or the equivalent. Students who do not have the advanced calculus course may be required to take the course MATH-GA 1002 Multivariable Analysis.

As previously emphasized, these are the very minimum requirements; additional undergraduate coursework in mathematics is desirable. Courses in analysis, linear algebra, complex variables, partial and ordinary differential equations, and probability theory are especially helpful.
=======================

you could probably get a degree at TESU, but I doubt they have all the courses

so you'd have to do courses elsewhere and transfer them into TESU

her's a bunch of advanced online courses
https://open.suny.edu/courses/search?s=M...ergraduate

but unless your kid's a super genius he should probably go to a brick & mortar school so he can get more personal instruction and faster feedback
============

> We are low income

public universities are MUCH less expensive than private schools
and you get a tuition discount for being a resident of the state  
so check out public universities in your state
He can get the upper level courses locally or online then transfer in. That doesn't concern me. But all the other non-math courses.. SO MUCH time and money could be saved if he could do those via exams, study.com, etc. He LOVES math and wants to ficus on math and not spend so much time on humanities, ect. 

I fully believe he could get into our local  uni (University of Texas Tyler) on a full merit freshman scholarship. He is profoundly gifted and a great test taker, even now at age 11. His goal is a 36 ACT and he just took a practice test this week with a 32 composite.. so assuming that translates roughly to his real score that he will take in June, I do not see why he could not get very close or hit his 36 goal by age 16-17. HOWEVER.. he wants to start now. He wants to not wait until he is 17 or 18 and graduated high school. Hence the desire to get as much lower credits out of the way via exams. 

Seethe dilemma?


I would have him sit for the ACT/SAT ASAP and take those scores to UT Tyler and see what they can arrange for him. My guess is that he could start taking math classes (at least) very early at UT Tyler with the right scores. I’d also look at that degree plan and the CLEP/AP out of the humanities. I know UTD has a map on their website of how they apply to their degree plans, UTT should too. UT Tyler should see him as a feather in their cap. Young kids outside the norm graduate from college early sometimes, but I think you’ll need to chase it down at first. Once the test scores are “out there”, I’d expect some colleges to chase him as well. They should be throwing money at him.

You might also want to contact a lady named Kathe Lee. She’s based in DFW and does (usually free) presentations for homeschoolers in the area (to promote her business). She was also an admissions officer (?) for SMU and she homeschooled her son and has written a book. She has a consulting service, and I think it’s $300-500 for a consultation, though she may make arrangements with you-again, having your son as a client (bragging rights and experience dealing with him) may be all the payment she needs. I don’t know what she’ll say, but I’d try to talk to her directly about reduced/pro bono services. It can’t hurt to ask. Http://KatheLee.com She’s sort of a guidance counselor for college prep, plus neuro/learning differences, career planning, transcript optimizing for college apps, scholarship help, etc. Shes not big on the Big3 colleges for kids (she told me $5k was too much to pay for a degree, when you can get scholarships to go for free—-mind you not all of her clients get full rides and are sometimes shocked by that), so know that going in-though she’s recommended it for adults with assorted credits. I have a number of friends who’ve used her and I may for my oldest too. She has her own strong opinions, so you’ll need to balance her opinion with your own research. She may be able to help guide you more than we can though.


Sent from my iPhone using DegreeForum.net

(03-08-2019, 11:28 AM)alab21 Wrote:
(03-07-2019, 12:19 PM)TorsMama Wrote:
(03-07-2019, 11:42 AM)bluebooger Wrote: ============
Columbia University
https://www.math.columbia.edu/programs-m...d-to-know/

"Below are listed basic topics from various areas of mathematics. ... on the assumption that all entering Ph.D. students are familiar with all these topics"

Linear Algebra:
Abstract Algebra:
Point-set Topology:
Calculus:
Complex Analysis:
Real Analysis:
===========
Cornell University
https://math.cornell.edu/graduate-admiss...pplication

Mastery of the material required for an undergraduate major in mathematics, including a rigorous course in advanced calculus and real variable theory that will serve as an introduction to measure theory and courses in linear algebra and modern abstract algebra at an advanced level. Applicants should also have some familiarity with applications of advanced calculus. Most successful applicants score 700 or above on their GRE subject test.
===============
New York University
https://math.nyu.edu/dynamic/phd/admissi...-policies/

All applicants must have earned (or be about to complete) a B.A. or B.S. or the equivalent. They must have taken three semesters of college-level calculus, including one semester of advanced calculus or linear algebra or the equivalent. Students who do not have the advanced calculus course may be required to take the course MATH-GA 1002 Multivariable Analysis.

As previously emphasized, these are the very minimum requirements; additional undergraduate coursework in mathematics is desirable. Courses in analysis, linear algebra, complex variables, partial and ordinary differential equations, and probability theory are especially helpful.
=======================

you could probably get a degree at TESU, but I doubt they have all the courses

so you'd have to do courses elsewhere and transfer them into TESU

her's a bunch of advanced online courses
https://open.suny.edu/courses/search?s=M...ergraduate

but unless your kid's a super genius he should probably go to a brick & mortar school so he can get more personal instruction and faster feedback
============

> We are low income

public universities are MUCH less expensive than private schools
and you get a tuition discount for being a resident of the state  
so check out public universities in your state
He can get the upper level courses locally or online then transfer in. That doesn't concern me. But all the other non-math courses.. SO MUCH time and money could be saved if he could do those via exams, study.com, etc. He LOVES math and wants to ficus on math and not spend so much time on humanities, ect. 

I fully believe he could get into our local  uni (University of Texas Tyler) on a full merit freshman scholarship. He is profoundly gifted and a great test taker, even now at age 11. His goal is a 36 ACT and he just took a practice test this week with a 32 composite.. so assuming that translates roughly to his real score that he will take in June, I do not see why he could not get very close or hit his 36 goal by age 16-17. HOWEVER.. he wants to start now. He wants to not wait until he is 17 or 18 and graduated high school. Hence the desire to get as much lower credits out of the way via exams. 

Seethe dilemma?


I would have him sit for the ACT/SAT ASAP and take those scores to UT Tyler and see what they can arrange for him. My guess is that he could start taking math classes (at least) very early at UT Tyler with the right scores. I’d also look at that degree plan and the CLEP/AP out of the humanities. I know UTD has a map on their website of how they apply to their degree plans, UTT should too. UT Tyler should see him as a feather in their cap. Young kids outside the norm graduate from college early sometimes, but I think you’ll need to chase it down at first. Once the test scores are “out there”, I’d expect some colleges to chase him as well. They should be throwing money at him.

You might also want to contact a lady named Kathe Lee. She’s based in DFW and does (usually free) presentations for homeschoolers in the area (to promote her business). She was also an admissions officer (?) for SMU and she homeschooled her son and has written a book. She has a consulting service, and I think it’s $300-500 for a consultation, though she may make arrangements with you-again, having your son as a client (bragging rights and experience dealing with him) may be all the payment she needs. I don’t know what she’ll say, but I’d try to talk to her directly about reduced/pro bono services. It can’t hurt to ask. Http://KatheLee.com She’s sort of a guidance counselor for college prep, plus neuro/learning differences, career planning, transcript optimizing for college apps, scholarship help, etc. Shes not big on the Big3 colleges for kids (she told me $5k was too much to pay for a degree, when you can get scholarships to go for free—-mind you not all of her clients get full rides and are sometimes shocked by that), so know that going in-though she’s recommended it for adults with assorted credits. I have a number of friends who’ve used her and I may for my oldest too. She has her own strong opinions, so you’ll need to balance her opinion with your own research. She may be able to help guide you more than we can though.


Sent from my iPhone using DegreeForum.net


Also, UNT has a summer math camp you might want to look into for him (TAMS SMI). Scholarships are available. A friend just applied for her son. July 7-27th.


Sent from my iPhone using DegreeForum.net
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#10
I could not find a map on the UT Tyler website that showed me how many CLEPS or APs could be applied to his degree, but I will try to get that info next week and ficus on that this year (on top of his other schoolwork). If they allow all the ones they say they offer to actually apply, he could get a good handful of the 42 credit core complete that way (though not everything but its a start!) He could possibly even CLEP Calculus 1 if they allow it and that way we might be able to wait til 13 or 14 to start actual dual credit which buys me some time to figure things out.

He will be taking the ACT in June, so if the scores as significant, that may help the situation, you think?

UNT is a drive for us, so any camp that isn't local would have to be short. My son is not ready to do long residential camps yet (his choice).
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