2 COVID Vaccines Approved, End to Pandemic in Sight??

[rachel83az]

Authoritarianism is what allowed the pandemic to become a pandemic. Not communism, socialism, or democracy. In the US, Republican leaders didn't want to admit that covid was an issue because they didn't want to lose their political power. Just like what happened with the political leaders in China. I won't say that there were no Democrats who denied that covid was going to become serious, but there is a reason why the Republicans have labeled it a "Democrat hoax". More Democrats were for taking steps to halt the pandemic than were against it. Just as more Republicans were for ignoring the warning signs than were against burying their heads in the sand.

[Thorne]

The first death in the US from COVID19 was February 6, 2020. As of today, 248,687 have died in the US from COVID19. That many people have died in two hundred and eighty-six days.

Two thousand, nine hundred and ninety-seven people died on September 11, 2001. I'm bad at math, but isn't the  number of deaths from COVID19 like having a 9/11 attack every 4 days?

We went to war over 9/11. Don't seem to see the same attempt at shock and awe over COVID19 and I can tell you I'm darn tired of it. Maybe, if we'd been like Canada, New Zealand  and Australia and not politicized this thing, we might still be where we are today, but at least I'd have the comfort of knowing folks are TRYING. That we're doing whatever we can to fight it. That just isn't the case. And I have to think it's political

A bunch of Republican governors came out AFTER election day to get serious about mask wearing seems a bit - just a bit, mind you - coincidental to me. I'm sure that they're not a bunch of hypocrites.

Yes, I sound angry. It's because I am.  You want to think that the world is flat? Fine. You want to believe in astrology? (That's a dig at some liberals.) Fine. You think that this virus is bunk? Fine. You don't want to wear a mask, social distance, or wash your hands? THAT is where I draw the line. Kill yourself if you want to, but keep your blinking germs with you. You're shouting, "Fire" in a crowded theater as far as I'm concerned, and I don't want to be trampled.

I don't think most people here or even most Republicans have a problem with mask wearing. The last time I saw stats, 70% of Democrats thought masks were beneficial, 60% of Republicans, and 65% of Independents, but even where I live, a red part of Texas, literally everyone is wearing a mask in public unless they're eating or exercising. There was even a BBC article a few months back about how in spite of all the complaints about Americans not masking up, we had like 75% compliance across the board compared to the only 65% compliance in the UK.

Most of the people I know from all walks think that this is a sham because the approach is to shut everything down, which is causing mental health crises in young people, while telling people who criticize this that they want innocent people to die and suffer. I know this because when I said, "Why not push for masks and distancing but keep the economy open to avoid a depression and stave off major mental health issues," I was blocked by two family members and three long-term friends who claimed that's what I wanted.

[Merlin]

Most of the people I know from all walks think that this is a sham because the approach is to shut everything down, which is causing mental health crises in young people, while telling people who criticize this that they want innocent people to die and suffer. I know this because when I said, "Why not push for masks and distancing but keep the economy open to avoid a depression and stave off major mental health issues," I was blocked by two family members and three long-term friends who claimed that's what I wanted.

Ignorance doesn't have political boundaries. Shutdowns are one approach, but it shouldn't have been the first or only approach. A shutdown is the last option available when people aren't capable of doing the right thing on their own. (Well, the last option before martial law.) Had everyone put aside the politics and just worked together as Americans to mask up when around other people, respect physical boundaries, and upgrade HVAC systems or stagger in-office days somehow, we could have avoided shutting down at all. Nobody wanted to spend the money for the HVAC upgrades, but I bet if they knew how much they'd lose by not doing it, they would have jumped at the chance. That is also where a much smaller amount of government stimulus money could have gone instead of sending checks to everyone and providing all those business loans.

Even if 75% of the people do their part, the 25% who won't are the ones who forced the shutdowns. It applies everywhere, not just the US, but a few countries have managed to reduce their incidence rates and keep them down by following a plan. The problem is, we never had a plan or a bipartisan appeal to people to make it understandable to everyone. I'd like to believe that people in the US would have responded more favorably to masking and distancing had they been given a comprehensive plan in March along with realistic guidelines as to what to expect and how to keep each other safe while keeping company doors open. Particularly if they realized that the alternative was a long-term economic shutdown that would cripple so many people financially and cause all manner of psychological issues.

[Seagull]

Authoritarianism is what allowed the pandemic to become a pandemic. Not communism, socialism, or democracy. In the US, Republican leaders didn't want to admit that covid was an issue because they didn't want to lose their political power. Just like what happened with the political leaders in China. I won't say that there were no Democrats who denied that covid was going to become serious, but there is a reason why the Republicans have labeled it a "Democrat hoax". More Democrats were for taking steps to halt the pandemic than were against it. Just as more Republicans were for ignoring the warning signs than were against burying their heads in the sand.

China happens to be both authoritarian and communist.
Communism has been the cause of most societal ills since its creation in 1830.

The democratic party has been embracing communism and slavery since the time of Lincoln. I still can't understand how people allow it as a party in modern times.

Abd what is happening now is communism in action.
And it shows when we see the type of censorship some platforms are implementing to keep one side silent.

[rachel83az]

The democratic party has been embracing communism and slavery since the time of Lincoln. I still can't understand how people allow it as a party in modern times.

No. Just... no. The parties switched sides/names during the Civil Rights era. The Southern Democrats went Republican after the Civil Rights Act was signed by LBJ. The Republicans who thought black persons were actually people went Democrat. https://www.history.com/news/how-the-par...atic-south

[LongRoad]

Those links don't really say much.

While the links don't give the whole picture, I'm pretty sure the point of them is to give some idea of why Covid is much more dangerous than people are giving it credit for. Surviving the virus doesn't guarantee that you will be 100% when you recover... you may end up with lasting problems that could affect you for months or years. We don't even know the extent of the damage for sure at this point, but there are plenty of examples of people who have a much-diminished quality of life months after recovery. Some of the people end up with blood clots and/or strokes. Others end up with cardiac, pulmonary, or nervous system damage and are at higher risk of death or other complications. This disease is nothing to mess around with.

If I didn't know people who are still suffering from the long-term effects of Covid, I might be more skeptical as well. If we only look at the fatality rate, it doesn't seem that scary, but for every person who dies, there are tens or hundreds of people who recover with lasting complications. Some of which may never completely recover, or will be at higher risk for other medical issues down the road.

And we wouldn't have had to shut down our economy if people would just do their part to keep it from spread

In Star Trek, The Borg could morph to address new dangers. If this virus were not so frightening, to people, to the economy, etc., and if I had even a smidgen of interest in infectious diseases, I would find it fascinating. As it is? I find it frightening. Death is inevitable, but I'm not in any rush to meet it. And I try to eat right, exercise, engage with friends, etc. All the things science says are healthy practices. If I can eat oatmeal (blah!), I can wear a mask, etc.

---

Another thing to put things into perspective, the Spanish Flu epidemic of 1918 actually lasted about 2 years (according to Wikipedia, it was 25 or 26 months depending on how you reckon things). During that time (according to https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resourc...istory.htm) it killed about 675,000 Americans. This was a time BEFORE advanced medicine like ventilators or even antibiotics. Assuming 25 months, that's an average of 27k per month. For covid? 250k over 8 months is 31k per month!

Since we don't even know if the vaccine(s) will work, it's possible this could last at least as long as the Spanish Flu epidemic. At current rates, that's more than three-quarters of a million Americans dead over 2+ years because people can't be bothered to wash their hands and wear a mask.

In Europe, the infection rates are going up again because people couldn't be bothered to have a staycation this year rather than go traipsing across the continent. And the anti-mask rhetoric is spreading. It's disgusting. I, too, am salty about the whole situation.

I remember my mother telling me about her father. He was at a train station during the Spanish flue. There were coffins piled up on the platform practically covering the whole thing. We're more fortunate at this part of the outbreak than at the beginning because we've come up with some ways to mitigate the disease in some cases. That said, I'd prefer avoidance to mitigation.

I know how the Europeans feel, though. I love to travel. Most countries aren't letting us in. When I think of going on a road trip, I ask myself if it's worth dying for.  After grinding my teeth, I turn away from the idea.

I suspect dentists will be doing a booming business after COVID is dealt with because of all the teeth grinding!

---

The first death in the US from COVID19 was February 6, 2020. As of today, 248,687 have died in the US from COVID19. That many people have died in two hundred and eighty-six days.

Two thousand, nine hundred and ninety-seven people died on September 11, 2001. I'm bad at math, but isn't the  number of deaths from COVID19 like having a 9/11 attack every 4 days?

We went to war over 9/11. Don't seem to see the same attempt at shock and awe over COVID19 and I can tell you I'm darn tired of it. Maybe, if we'd been like Canada, New Zealand  and Australia and not politicized this thing, we might still be where we are today, but at least I'd have the comfort of knowing folks are TRYING. That we're doing whatever we can to fight it. That just isn't the case. And I have to think it's political

A bunch of Republican governors came out AFTER election day to get serious about mask wearing seems a bit - just a bit, mind you - coincidental to me. I'm sure that they're not a bunch of hypocrites.

Yes, I sound angry. It's because I am.  You want to think that the world is flat? Fine. You want to believe in astrology? (That's a dig at some liberals.) Fine. You think that this virus is bunk? Fine. You don't want to wear a mask, social distance, or wash your hands? THAT is where I draw the line. Kill yourself if you want to, but keep your blinking germs with you. You're shouting, "Fire" in a crowded theater as far as I'm concerned, and I don't want to be trampled.

I don't think most people here or even most Republicans have a problem with mask wearing. The last time I saw stats, 70% of Democrats thought masks were beneficial, 60% of Republicans, and 65% of Independents, but even where I live, a red part of Texas, literally everyone is wearing a mask in public unless they're eating or exercising. There was even a BBC article a few months back about how in spite of all the complaints about Americans not masking up, we had like 75% compliance across the board compared to the only 65% compliance in the UK.

Most of the people I know from all walks think that this is a sham because the approach is to shut everything down, which is causing mental health crises in young people, while telling people who criticize this that they want innocent people to die and suffer. I know this because when I said, "Why not push for masks and distancing but keep the economy open to avoid a depression and stave off major mental health issues," I was blocked by two family members and three long-term friends who claimed that's what I wanted.

Is shutting everything down the answer? I don't know. Especially at the beginning, however, we just didn't know what we didn't know. In that ignorance, it was probably a good idea to react in that way, and then, when it was determined that the response was too aggressive, back off, bit by bit, to a level where we could control it better. I think politics and intransigence got thrown into the mix and made things worse than they needed to be.

[Seagull]

The democratic party has been embracing communism and slavery since the time of Lincoln. I still can't understand how people allow it as a party in modern times.

No. Just... no. The parties switched sides/names during the Civil Rights era. The Southern Democrats went Republican after the Civil Rights Act was signed by LBJ. The Republicans who thought black persons were actually people went Democrat. https://www.history.com/news/how-the-par...atic-south

That is not a primary source and really no history book mentions that. Communism wants to rewrite history. It can't be denied that is why they are destroying statues for that very purpose. Including statues of Lincoln.
In 1984 Orwell explains how history gets rewritten.

Nevertheless each party true colors show no matter how many times they change names or switch sides.

But politics aside. Covid is a real thing and what they are keeping from us is the fact vaccines may already exist since 2005, and all this political game and halted economy is just to control people, make them more obedient.

Fear and withholding the solution is one of the many techniques. Plus keeping people from gathering, and censorship of thought on main social platforms.

I prefer to look at it objectively and what I see is scarier than the disease itself. Just like Hillary Clinton said, "never waste a good crisis". The government is doing that. And it is not a partisan thing, it is global, and it is not a conspiracy theory either.

Some places like Nova Scotia, people are leading normal lives and at the same time taking precautions but they go to school and go to the gym, and numbers of cases have not increased. If numbers are right why can't other places follow this model?

[rachel83az]

Does it really take a textbook (most of which are written to conform to historically-conservative Texas standards) to say this before you'll believe it? Do you really think that there would be so many Confederate flag-waving Republicans if the parties hadn't swapped sides? The Confederates are literally the ones who fought to keep slavery around. I don't think I've ever seen a Confederate flag at a Democratic convention. Ever.

I would hope that on a forum that is literally dedicated to higher education that there would be more critical thinking skills involved around here.

A peer-reviewed paper on the subject: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.20161413

A long discussion about the switch: https://www.niskanencenter.org/the-roots...al-switch/

Another article about the switch: https://www.livescience.com/34241-democr...forms.html

Yes, this is a "news" article but it is sourced, including an interview with a history professor at Princeton. I would hope Princeton would know how to hire accurate historians: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fact...253803001/

[ss20ts]

The democratic party has been embracing communism and slavery since the time of Lincoln. I still can't understand how people allow it as a party in modern times.

No. Just... no. The parties switched sides/names during the Civil Rights era. The Southern Democrats went Republican after the Civil Rights Act was signed by LBJ. The Republicans who thought black persons were actually people went Democrat. https://www.history.com/news/how-the-par...atic-south

That is not a primary source and really no history book mentions that. Communism wants to rewrite history. It can't be denied that is why they are destroying statues for that very purpose. Including statues of Lincoln.
In 1984 Orwell explains how history gets rewritten.

Nevertheless each party true colors show no matter how many times they change names or switch sides.

But politics aside. Covid is a real thing and what they are keeping from us is the fact vaccines may already exist since 2005, and all this political game and halted economy is just to control people, make them more obedient.

Fear and withholding the solution is one of the many techniques. Plus keeping people from gathering, and censorship of thought on main social platforms.

I prefer to look at it objectively and what I see is scarier than the disease itself. Just like Hillary Clinton said, "never waste a good crisis". The government is doing that. And it is not a partisan thing, it is global, and it is not a conspiracy theory either.

Some places like Nova Scotia, people are leading normal lives and at the same time taking precautions but they go to school and go to the gym, and numbers of cases have not increased. If numbers are right why can't other places follow this model?

Did you really just use the it's not a primary source nonsense on a discussion forum? LOL

How can you say what's in every history book? I find it very hard to believe that you have read every single book on the Civil War. Depending on what part of the country you live in, the war was over different issues. There are MANY history books which discuss the changing of the political parties when they flipped sides. I even learned about it in junior high.

[Seagull]

The democratic party has been embracing communism and slavery since the time of Lincoln. I still can't understand how people allow it as a party in modern times.

No. Just... no. The parties switched sides/names during the Civil Rights era. The Southern Democrats went Republican after the Civil Rights Act was signed by LBJ. The Republicans who thought black persons were actually people went Democrat. https://www.history.com/news/how-the-par...atic-south

That is not a primary source and really no history book mentions that. Communism wants to rewrite history. It can't be denied that is why they are destroying statues for that very purpose. Including statues of Lincoln.
In 1984 Orwell explains how history gets rewritten.

Nevertheless each party true colors show no matter how many times they change names or switch sides.

But politics aside. Covid is a real thing and what they are keeping from us is the fact vaccines may already exist since 2005, and all this political game and halted economy is just to control people, make them more obedient.

Fear and withholding the solution is one of the many techniques. Plus keeping people from gathering, and censorship of thought on main social platforms.

I prefer to look at it objectively and what I see is scarier than the disease itself. Just like Hillary Clinton said, "never waste a good crisis". The government is doing that. And it is not a partisan thing, it is global, and it is not a conspiracy theory either.

Some places like Nova Scotia, people are leading normal lives and at the same time taking precautions but they go to school and go to the gym, and numbers of cases have not increased. If numbers are right why can't other places follow this model?

Did you really just use the it's not a primary source nonsense on a discussion forum? LOL

How can you say what's in every history book? I find it very hard to believe that you have read every single book on the Civil War. Depending on what part of the country you live in, the war was over different issues. There are MANY history books which discuss the changing of the political parties when they flipped sides. I even learned about it in junior high.

So why did they do that, was it to deceive all citizens? Why either party would keep the name of the party whose ideology they detested? So that means that neither party is fit to run our country which is based on the Constitution and that alone. It is the same as the nazi party using the word socialism in its name but at the same time being extreme right and fighting communism.

So maybe we should do away with the two-party system which is just two big political party that are the same platform and only allow those who align with our Constitution to run and represent us.

In the end, all the governments are just following a globalistic ideology backed by the United Nations, so technically it won't matter anymore what party you think you are voting for, it will all be following the directive of the UN