2 COVID Vaccines Approved, End to Pandemic in Sight??

[Merlin]

When you can show that they didn't fudge any numbers, maybe I'll believe some of this stuff.  For instance, if you test positive on the quickie test, and then go get it confirmed, do they count that as 2 positive cases?  I've heard yes.  If someone goes to the hospital for something, and tests positive, even though they aren't there for that reason, do they count it as a Covid hospitalization?  Again, I've heard yes - for people giving birth, having a broken leg, etc.  For deaths, I've heard from lots of people that their relatives were listed as Covid deaths even though they died WITH Covid rather than FROM Covid.  A friend's husband had a heart attack, no Covid symptoms - not only did they refuse to do an autopsy when the wife thought that he might have been poisoned by someone (for good reason), they put Covid on his death certificate even though he had zero symptoms.  She was mad and tried to fight it, but they wouldn't budge.  When hospitals are given money to put someone on a ventilator, my guess is they're doing that whether people need it or not (or at the very least, writing down that they were on a ventilator).

Until you can show me that they are straight-shooters in reporting the numbers, I'm not buying what the government is selling.  Sorry.

I have heard some of those claims and seen reports that debunk them from doctors and hospitals. I have also heard claims of the exact opposite. The big one is that people who die from covid-related complications are not being counted as covid deaths when they should. Given our testing infrastructure is so limited, only like 10% of the people with symptoms get tested and even fewer people who die get tested unless they need to be. I've seen reports claiming that there are people who are likely dying from Covid (or post-Covid complications) but are being attributed to other conditions like strokes or Pneumonia. Pneumonia, for example, is almost always a symptom of something else... and this was way before flu season which suggests that testing for Covid antibodies is reasonable as part of investigating the cause of death. And while people do get strokes, they are far more common in Covid victims.

Likewise, I have also seen quite a bit of evidence debunking claims of overcounting and discrediting the conspiracy theory that hospitals overreport to get more money. But there is no way to know for sure that there is no over or undercounting. My guess is that if there is over/undercounting that it probably evens out in the wash. Much like the recent claims of voter fraud. If there is any, it's likely statistically irrelevant and likely to occur on both sides of the partisan divide given how emotionally charged elections can be. Whenever I hear these claims, I usually assume sour grapes.

Ultimately the numbers are coming from doctors and hospitals, not from the government. I'd like to believe that our medical professionals know how to count and are more responsible than we give them credit for. They should have controls in place to make sure that people who get tested multiple times are not counted as infected more than once unless they legitimately get infected a second time later on. Worldwide statistics paint the same picture, so it seems unlikely that things are being faked here in the US.

Maybe I'm just too much of a skeptic to accept conspiracy theories. If I can't logically justify an argument I am always highly skeptical of it.

[StoicJ]

When you can show that they didn't fudge any numbers, maybe I'll believe some of this stuff.  For instance, if you test positive on the quickie test, and then go get it confirmed, do they count that as 2 positive cases?  I've heard yes.  If someone goes to the hospital for something, and tests positive, even though they aren't there for that reason, do they count it as a Covid hospitalization?  Again, I've heard yes - for people giving birth, having a broken leg, etc.  For deaths, I've heard from lots of people that their relatives were listed as Covid deaths even though they died WITH Covid rather than FROM Covid.  A friend's husband had a heart attack, no Covid symptoms - not only did they refuse to do an autopsy when the wife thought that he might have been poisoned by someone (for good reason), they put Covid on his death certificate even though he had zero symptoms.  She was mad and tried to fight it, but they wouldn't budge.  When hospitals are given money to put someone on a ventilator, my guess is they're doing that whether people need it or not (or at the very least, writing down that they were on a ventilator).

Until you can show me that they are straight-shooters in reporting the numbers, I'm not buying what the government is selling.  Sorry.

I still would like to see the numbers I asked about. Total deaths, categorized by cause, broken down into months, for the past several years. Sure, numbers could be fudged there, but it could still be helpful in seeing the big picture. I would be interested to see which categories have risen versus those that have fallen.

I notice things in one of the links rachel83az provided, like 2/3 of 299,000 excess deaths being attributed to Covid-19. So basically there was a jump of 100,000 deaths NOT attributed to Covid-19, during a period when there is significant financial, political, and social pressure to attribute deaths to Covid-19. 200,000 C-19-attributed / 330,000,000 total population = .06%. 

I'd like to point out that the USA population is increasing, and the trend of average age is rising. You are going to see more deaths, because of where we move demographically. I'd like to point out the leading causes of death in the USA in 2018, per CDC. Heart disease = 655,381. Cancer = 599,274. Accidents = 167,127. Stroke = 147,810. Etc. I remember that Johns Hopkins suggested in a study that in the USA about 250,000 deaths per year were directly attributable to medical error.

I'm not saying Covid-19 should not be a major concern. And if this were an ebolavirus, lordy! What I am saying is that THIS was blown way out of proportion, the response has been tremendously excessive. And the motivations behind much of it, absolutely sinister. That's all I have to say about that here. I know minds won't be changed, I just like others to know they are not alone in seeing the sham. Now I'll leave and go back to the WONDERFUL part of this site : )

[ss20ts]

The whole count is jacked up in so many ways. One of my friend's children committed suicide in April. He was NEVER tested for COVID and never had a single symptom. His death certificate says he died from COVID. The county refuses to change it. His mother has been battling them since April.

One of my friends tested positive 7 times for COVID while hospitalized. She was in a drug treatment trial and couldn't be released from the hospital until she tested negative. The State of Florida counted her 7 times - YES 7 TIMES! All the same person not 7 different people.

This why the count is all jacked up. There are many people who should have been counted and probably people who should have been counted. Since most people haven't been tested, they would never be counted. I don't put much faith into any of the numbers based on experiences my friends and family have had in different states.

[bjcheung77]

Hmm, I don't think too much, I just focus on a few things along with the family, when we are out and about, protect yourself...
Unless we Stay Home if we're not feeling well, we practice - Social Distancing, Washing our hands regularly, Wearing a Mask, etc
Forcing people to follow some rules that they don't want to follow won't work, have them follow guidelines that are acceptable to them...

[dfrecore]

Ok, this is the last question for everyone: what is the deal with getting mad at people not washing their hands? It's been mentioned a couple of times. How would ME not washing my hands affect YOU if Covid has been shown to not get transmitted via touching things but by droplets, spread person-to-person? So weird. It's like people are TRYING to find reasons to be mad at other people.

Also, I would like to say that we left CA in July, and it is AMAZING to me how often I hear from my friends there use the word safe, refer to staying home, and just generally being fearful on a daily basis; and here in SC, yes people wear masks and physically distance, but they just do not talk about Covid nearly as much. It's like a completely different world (and actually why we ended up moving here). It's just weird to see this difference on a regular basis. I now say "oh yeah, they're from CA where lockdowns are a major thing" to remind myself why they are having such a different experience than I am.

[Seagull]

Ok, this is the last question for everyone: what is the deal with getting mad at people not washing their hands?  It's been mentioned a couple of times.  How would ME not washing my hands affect YOU if Covid has been shown to not get transmitted via touching things but by droplets, spread person-to-person?  So weird.  It's like people are TRYING to find reasons to be mad at other people.

Also, I would like to say that we left CA in July, and it is AMAZING to me how often I hear from my friends there use the word safe, refer to staying home, and just generally being fearful on a daily basis; and here in SC, yes people wear masks and physically distance, but they just do not talk about Covid nearly as much.  It's like a completely different world (and actually why we ended up moving here).  It's just weird to see this difference on a regular basis.  I now say "oh yeah, they're from CA where lockdowns are a major thing" to remind myself why they are having such a different experience than I am.

Ahah that brings it back to the political, in the fact that California is in the socialist grasp of the governor who is related to Pelosi, and they both adhere to socialism.

SC is a conservative state and so they more likely follow logic and things are more relaxed.

[ss20ts]

Was no one washing their hands before mid-March? Was I the only one? And please don't tell me to not touch my face. All that nonsense did was make me touch in non-stop. It became this awful obsession.

[Merlin]

Ok, this is the last question for everyone: what is the deal with getting mad at people not washing their hands?  It's been mentioned a couple of times.  How would ME not washing my hands affect YOU if Covid has been shown to not get transmitted via touching things but by droplets, spread person-to-person?  So weird.  It's like people are TRYING to find reasons to be mad at other people.

Also, I would like to say that we left CA in July, and it is AMAZING to me how often I hear from my friends there use the word safe, refer to staying home, and just generally being fearful on a daily basis; and here in SC, yes people wear masks and physically distance, but they just do not talk about Covid nearly as much.  It's like a completely different world (and actually why we ended up moving here).  It's just weird to see this difference on a regular basis.  I now say "oh yeah, they're from CA where lockdowns are a major thing" to remind myself why they are having such a different experience than I am.

Ahah that brings it back to the political, in the fact that California is in the socialist grasp of the governor who is related to Pelosi, and they both adhere to socialism.

Not that I want to get into a political debate, but California has been pretty liberal for a lot longer than Newsom has been in office as Governor. While the state does lean towards a more socialist economic policy in as much as the people like to vote to spend money on social and environmental programs, I don't think that trying to limit the spread of this virus via masking and physical distancing really should have anything to do with politics but more with science and logic.

SC is a conservative state and so they more likely follow logic and things are more relaxed.

I also don't see how politics has anything to do with following logic. I'm sure everyone involved thinks they are acting rationally and logically according to their own perspectives. As for being less relaxed, I've always felt like California was extremely relaxed compared to how things are on the east coast, at least prior to Covid. People around here are definitely more neurotic since Covid though.

Science tells us we need to flatten the curve as much as possible until we have a vaccine since we won't reach herd immunity without one. Everyone doing their part to help that goal is logical since it has the best chance to keep our economy functional, plus it avoids the government stepping in to force the issue through lockdowns, etc. At least that seems logical to me and I come from a conservative family that is mostly Republican (though I personally tend to lean more Libertarian).

The problem is that people aren't doing it, which is why we're dealing with the current situation.

[Seagull]

Ok, this is the last question for everyone: what is the deal with getting mad at people not washing their hands?  It's been mentioned a couple of times.  How would ME not washing my hands affect YOU if Covid has been shown to not get transmitted via touching things but by droplets, spread person-to-person?  So weird.  It's like people are TRYING to find reasons to be mad at other people.

Also, I would like to say that we left CA in July, and it is AMAZING to me how often I hear from my friends there use the word safe, refer to staying home, and just generally being fearful on a daily basis; and here in SC, yes people wear masks and physically distance, but they just do not talk about Covid nearly as much.  It's like a completely different world (and actually why we ended up moving here).  It's just weird to see this difference on a regular basis.  I now say "oh yeah, they're from CA where lockdowns are a major thing" to remind myself why they are having such a different experience than I am.

Ahah that brings it back to the political, in the fact that California is in the socialist grasp of the governor who is related to Pelosi, and they both adhere to socialism.

Not that I want to get into a political debate, but California has been pretty liberal for a lot longer than Newsom has been in office as Governor. While the state does lean towards a more socialist economic policy in as much as the people like to vote to spend money on social and environmental programs, I don't think that trying to limit the spread of this virus via masking and physical distancing really should have anything to do with politics but more with science and logic.

SC is a conservative state and so they more likely follow logic and things are more relaxed.

I also don't see how politics has anything to do with following logic. I'm sure everyone involved thinks they are acting rationally and logically according to their own perspectives. As for being less relaxed, I've always felt like California was extremely relaxed compared to how things are on the east coast, at least prior to Covid. People around here are definitely more neurotic since Covid though.

Science tells us we need to flatten the curve as much as possible until we have a vaccine since we won't reach herd immunity without one. Everyone doing their part to help that goal is logical since it has the best chance to keep our economy functional, plus it avoids the government stepping in to force the issue through lockdowns, etc. At least that seems logical to me and I come from a conservative family that is mostly Republican (though I personally tend to lean more Libertarian).

The problem is that people aren't doing it, which is why we're dealing with the current situation.

Science also shows that if diseases run their course, yes people die, but some are naturally immune and some develop immunity, that cannot happen if one is not exposed to it, it eventually occurs and it has always been the case for millennia. And the political factor is simply each state adopts a different leadership according to whom they voted for, so some states are not as restricted as others but the numbers in covid cases are no different.
The virus doesn't know boundaries or rules. And there is already 15 years of research on this type of virus.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/41/7/e67/310340

[LevelUP]

This was posted on Twitter, of course, never fact-checked.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/...nksgiving/



CDC Post on CDC.gov



If you still aren't scared yet, check out this Covid Event Risk Assessment Tool:
https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

For all of us to be safe, can you all please gather together and loot stores for your Christmas shopping.  
Then for the family cooking, burn down the store and use the heat from the fire to cook your turkeys.

This seems to be the only acceptable behavior that is allowed now  

On a serious note, Pfizer submitted for EUA today, word is FDA will meet on Dec 10th likely approving the vaccine around that date.
40 million doses ready to go for Dec.

Moderna plans to produce 100 million doses by the end of Jan, considering Pfizer gets approved, they should too since based on the same technology.

2 other vaccines could get EUA in Jan as well.