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9 Out of 10 New Jobs are Going to Those with a College Degree
#1
Decimon shared this on the other forum, and I think members here will be interested in these statistics.  

This is a post-industrialized, knowledge economy. Employers no longer want to pay for months or years of training, especially since unions have been weakened, so you need to pay for the training yourself by going to a community/junior college, technical college, or 4-year college. A lot of the complaining that occurred during the 2016 elections came from people who think that we can return to the post WWII economy. If you're too lazy to get post-secondary training, then you're going to be left behind in the current job market. Honestly, if you're really that poor, then you qualify for grants. The Pell Grant is often more than enough to cover community college tuition. 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nine-o...2018-06-04
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#2
I don't think that everyone who doesn't go on to get additional training is lazy. There are SO many reasons that college can be out of reach for people. My daughter, for instance, is anything but lazy, but she has real struggles with school. The thought that she may not want to continue on with something that is so damn hard for her when she no longer has to is completely understandable to me. I want her to be successful in life, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be a 4-yr degree that gets her there - she's going to have to do something else; choose a job that doesn't require a 4-yr degree but still pays well, or start her own business, or something non-traditional.

For anyone with kids, at some point, it can be impossible to go to school. When my kids were little, my youngest never slept for more than 2 hours at a time. Plus my husband traveled for work. I barely slept for 4 years, I was on full zombie mode. When was I going to go to school, and how was I going to learn anything under those circumstances? There are plenty of parents in these types of circumstances, who just cannot take the time to get schooling. Let's not even talk about single moms.

I think that there's going to be some kind of backlash against this type of thing - employers wanting a 4yr degree - because in SO many cases, it isn't necessary. Sure, they can claim that they don't want to train employees, but really, how many of us learned the job we do (or have done) because we learned it in school?? I sure didn't. I may have had some knowledge to bring with me, but every company I've worked for does things differently, to the point that they HAD to train me to do things "their way" each time I started a new job. My husband is starting a new job, and they're setting up training already. He has 20 years of experience, and multiple certs (he's in IT), but the training is about how THEY do things. So saying they don't want to train people is just silly.
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#3
It's disingenuous to only talk about 4-year degrees whenever college is brought up, especially when 2-year colleges are being presented as an option. No one is saying that everyone needs a bachelor's degree. Community colleges and technical schools offer associate's degrees and certificate programs.

There's a difference between training someone to work for a company and training someone for an occupation. A newly-hired programmer might go through a one to four-week training period, but a company is not going to spend months teaching the employee how to program. A company is definitely not going to invest years into making someone an engineer or accountant. In the past, people would spend years working their way up to these titles. This is no longer an option for most. Companies can skip all the employee development and hire someone who learned the basics in college.
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#4
most liberal arts majors are useless : psychology, history, english, criminal justice ...

a job training certificate from a community college in bookkeeping, computer networking, computer programming is more useful

and nobody working the floor at Walmart or Target needs a degree
or any fast food place
secretaries and administrative assistants could be just as productive with a two semester certificate

I've worked in a hospital as a programmer for 10 years without a degree -- everyone here thinks I'm a genius for accomplishing what I think are the most trivial tasks
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#5
To be fair, liberal arts also includes math and the physical sciences.
I think that technical and vocational programs are massively underutilized these days as they somehow got a stigma for non-academic types. People got it in their heads that everyone had to go to college for a 4 year degree and it didn't matter what the major was. Unfortunately, a lot of people got themselves tens of thousands in debt with psychology, history, art, English, etc degrees with no plan on how they were going to use them. Meanwhile, lots of international students from India, Asia, Europe, and middle East come to the US for engineering and other stem degrees and jobs(my observation anyways).
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#6
Going to a community college and earning a certificate (didn't even finish a degree) in a trade took me from 12 bucks an hour in college (I got hired in a shop before finishing my first year of school) to 6 figures a little while later.

All from a year and a half of community college (and the job I got in 6 months paid for the final year).

Yeah I am trying to swap careers, and its working, but at the very least, I stay doing what Im doing and do just fine.
We are all on the same side here, trying to better our lives....so let's get along and help each other out. 

Learn a trade. Gain technical skills. Make money, then use this money to get a degree...if you have the desire. 

Keep learning.
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#7
What type of certificate?
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#8
(06-14-2018, 04:35 PM)bluebooger Wrote: most liberal arts majors are useless : psychology, history, english, criminal justice ...

a job training certificate from a community college in bookkeeping, computer networking, computer programming is more useful

and nobody working the floor at Walmart or Target needs a degree
or any fast food place
secretaries and administrative assistants could be just as productive with a two semester certificate

I've worked in a hospital as a programmer for 10 years without a degree -- everyone here thinks I'm a genius for accomplishing what I think are the most trivial tasks

(06-14-2018, 05:05 PM)MNomadic Wrote: To be fair, liberal arts also includes math and the physical sciences.
I think that technical and vocational programs are massively underutilized these days as they somehow got a stigma for non-academic types. People got it in their heads that everyone had to go to college for a 4 year degree and it didn't matter what the major was. Unfortunately, a lot of people got themselves tens of thousands in debt with psychology, history, art, English, etc degrees with no plan on how they were going to use them. Meanwhile, lots of international students from India, Asia, Europe, and middle East come to the US for engineering and other stem degrees and jobs(my observation anyways).

It depends on your definition of useless. If you mean useless in that those degrees aren't needed to do the types of jobs people with those degrees do, then that might be subjective. If you mean useless in that those degrees won't get you a job, then statistics don't back up your assertions. People with those degrees have lower unemployment rates than people who only have a high school diploma, and they make more money. Most psychology majors have jobs that require a degree. 

This article is about new jobs that were created in 2017. You don't need a degree to work at McDonald's, but most of the new jobs aren't being created by fast food restaurants. Most administrative assistant jobs don't require a bachelor's degree, so that's a moot point. You can get a low-paying job at Walmart or Target, but Walmart and Target are not enough to employ all the unskilled people. We actually do have unskilled jobs that are not being filled, but those are jobs Americans don't want to do. Americans would rather be unemployed than work out in the hot sun or the cold. 

During the recession when many people were struggling to find work, I would tell them that security companies and corrections are always hiring, and it's easy to get in. Then, I would get the excuse that the jobs are dangerous. There is a very, very small chance that you will be shot as a security guard, but you're more likely to die or be injured working construction or truck driving. Corrections officers can be assaulted, but a very small percentage will ever be seriously injured or murdered. They're more likely to die from diseases caused by poor dietary choices and lack of exercise. People will make up all kinds of excuses to not do jobs they think are beneath them.

Since the job market recovered, I have had absolutely no problem with finding employment with my BA in Social Science. It's actually been my most valuable degree. The state and local governments are always hiring people with social science degrees. It's a matter of whether or not people want to do those jobs. Many people get degrees in psychology with plans to go to graduate school. When they decide not to, they're shocked that most of the jobs available to them involve working with criminals, addicts, and the poor.
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#9
(06-10-2018, 02:40 PM)mc.christi Wrote: [quote="jsd" pid='262607' dateline='1529015487']
What type of certificate?

A manual machinist certificate. And I actually wasn't awarded the certificate until a couple years ago. Before that, I was working in the field just based off knowing what I am doing. I didn't realize I could get the certificate until they told me that they no longer offer that degree, but could award me the certificate since I finished it in 2008. And just this year got the BOG from pierpont, and..if I don't die or go into a coma in the next 2 weeks, will have a bachelor's degree. Finally. The community college was highly regarded in the area, so it was easy finding jobs in machining in a 150 mile radius (but no problem elsewhere). Since then, all anyone needed to see was experience. I have done different jobs since then, but I got at the company that I am at now in a machinist position. Nobody in the trades has ever cared about a degree, that I have seen, until you get into high level electronics/electrical/programming. But hands-on, ground level sparkies get paid very well. I still say machining (specifically CNC machining), HVAC, or electronics is the way to go for a sub 2 year program that will pay the bills.

And I agree with her ^ (the part about getting killed is correct...we had a few guys get jumped, nothing major....but chugging energy drinks all night on night shift, long hours, gas station food for lunch will probably kill you first.) I very much enjoyed being a Corrections Officer, and then later a Recyard Officer. I would not have enjoyed working as a case manager (had friends that were, so got to hear about it every day), but loved being a CO.

Corrections is always hiring, and 80k and up was easy because of OT, just have to man up and get to work. Any able-bodied person with a clean background can get a job in corrections. Nobody wants to do it, though...people would rather bitch about not finding a high-paying job that involves their degree.
We are all on the same side here, trying to better our lives....so let's get along and help each other out. 

Learn a trade. Gain technical skills. Make money, then use this money to get a degree...if you have the desire. 

Keep learning.
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#10
I'd also like to point out that not all STEM degrees are created equal. As with most fields that have a high percentage of female workers, the life sciences do not pay a lot. People with government and international relations degrees make more than biology majors. Plus, biology and its various sub-fields produce the most STEM graduates because thousands of people major in biology with plans to go to medical school and either change their minds or can't get in.
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