Advice for friend's degree path

[Jabberwocky]

Hi guys,

I was talking with one of my other friends who is looking to go into a masters in toxicology. She has an Associates right now and wants to get a degree in natural science/biology if possible, but any degree will work as long as she has a bachelors since she can take additional science courses later down the line for a toxicology requirement.

Here is what she has at this time:


HIS-112 02 World Civilizations II
MUS-110 31 Music Appreciation
PSY-281 01 Abnormal Psychology
GEL-120 90 Physical Geology
PSY-150 97 General Psychology
JPN-111 Elementary Japanese I
JPN-112 Elementary Japanese II
HEA-110 87 Personal Health/Wellness
HUM-130 82 Myth in Human Culture
CHM-121 32 Foundations of Chemistry
CHM-121A 32 Foundations of Chem Lab
BIO-110 33 Principles of Biology
GEO-111 85 World Regional Geography
HIS-111 86 World Civilizations I
SOC-210 90 Introduction to Sociology
ENG-241 50 British Literature I
CIS-110 89 Introduction to Computers
SPA-111 33 Elementary Spanish I
SPA-181 33 Spanish Lab 1
ENG-112 88 Argument-Based Research
GER-111 02 Elementary German I
GER-181 02 German Lab 1
MAT-140 04 Survey of Mathematics
GRA-151 02 Computer Graphics I
ENG-111 10 Expository Writing
GRA-121 01 Graphic Arts I
MAT-070 01 Introductory Algebra
ACA-120 92 Career Assessment
COM-231 80 Public Speaking

She also has about 8-10 more language credits from a university in German and Japanese- the rest are from a community college.

I'm thinking that her best bet is a degree in liberal arts and then taking the remaining science courses after the fact for toxicology as a post-bac. Does that sound like the best possible route for her, or would you suggest something different for her? The goal is to work as a toxicologist in a lab of some kind as she said. She originally wanted to be a translator, which is why there are a bunch of credits for various languages.

Thus far in the toxicology route, Michigan State I think has an online program as well as FSU. In my area they also have the ability to take courses to get into medical technology which might be good for her while trying to pursue the masters, BUT that program requires Microbiology (with lab), Organic chemistry, and Immunology. So perhaps those are better to get as a post-bac, unless someone has advice on where to take those?

Any input would be greatly appreciated on to what degree to look at and then a skeleton of what CLEP/DANTES/ECE tests she still needs to take. She needs all the UL credits still so I'm nervous trying to put her into a NS degree at TESC because the sciences are already a little sparse in availability (as we talked about in MY pathway).

Let me know if there are any questions that I can answer on her behalf. Once again, MUCH APPRECIATED!

[sanantone]

I think it would be cheaper to take the science prerequisites within the degree no matter which major is chosen. Why waste money taking additional social science and humanities tests when the science courses can take their place and she's going to spend money on them eventually? Some programs might just require a set of prerequisites and some will have a preference for science degrees. Is she looking to take microbiology, organic chemistry, and immunology on the ground or as online courses? Microbiology is offered by a lot of schools online. Organic chemistry I is offered by a few colleges. What's difficult to find is organic chemistry II. Berkeley offers Immunology online.

[Jabberwocky]

I believe those sciences will be taken "on the ground" at the local university, online as a secondary option if the university won't allow her to based on pre-reqs completed via CLEP. I was looking at them post-bac because I feel she can complete a degree this fall and then continue the sciences next year since the immunology course is a spring course at our local university while microbiology is a fall course, meaning she has to wait anyway, since they both require organic at our university. Basically she has to go through a course sequence of 2-3 courses to complete this and I figured having a degree will help her professionally while she takes the courses part-time at school. That was MY thought process on this, but if an online university can offer the courses then we can look at that route.

The other issue is that she isn't able to qualify for any financial aid so the local university would be cheaper than some of the other places like Berkely (shooting from the hip here, I don't know if that is true for certain.)

[sanantone]

Yeah, Berkeley will be about $700-800, but you also have to take into account that the additional social science or history tests to complete the liberal studies degree will add to the final price. What does she plan on doing with the liberal studies degree? Also, some programs won't allow correspondence courses to fulfill prerequisites, but I'm assuming that an online toxicology program would be open to them.

[Jabberwocky]

Yeah, Berkeley will be about $700-800, but you also have to take into account that the additional social science or history tests to complete the liberal studies degree will add to the final price. What does she plan on doing with the liberal studies degree? Also, some programs won't allow correspondence courses to fulfill prerequisites, but I'm assuming that an online toxicology program would be open to them.

She plans on working in a lab. She can go into medical technology but needs a bachelors with some sciences in order to do that. Some of the online toxicology programs basically say to have some chem and bio and not fail the program, but priority is given to someone with a science degree and/or works in a lab setting. Personally I'd like to see her in a science degree but a LA with the required sciences would also work.

Maybe it's best if she goes and takes all the required sciences FIRST and then CLEPs out once she has all those requirements? I'm assuming that by completing the required/suggested courses of Micro, Immunology, cell biology, and Genetics ("highly recommended") she will have most of the things done for a NS degree in the UL region.

Basically, she wants to work in a lab and get a masters in toxicology. She doesn't care how she does it but would prefer the fastest route followed by the cheapest route, and we can make a happy medium from there. Sorry, I hope I'm giving the right information here for you...

[sanantone]

Oh! This price is not that bad, but it's for applied immunology. UC San Diego Extension charges $625.
Applied Immunology - UC San Diego Extension

University of Nebraska offers several science courses, but they charge $277 per credit hour plus additional fees per credit hour.
Prerequisites | UNMC

Harvard Extension charges $995.

Berkeley's course is $840.
Immunology course - UC Berkeley Extension
Immunology | Harvard Extension School

She could use the natural science courses in the area of study for the liberal studies degree; but, like you said, there is a preference for science degrees. She doesn't seem to have enough science credits yet to be competitive for a lab job.

[cookderosa]

Don't take this the wrong way, but without having ANY credit in science for a science major, how is she sure she wants to study science in graduate school? I'll be frank, but you'll be gentle when you talk to her. Her placement score put her in remedial math and foundations, she's not yet even taken algebra. Both of her sciences were intros, which means they don't count as science for science majors. What does that mean? Not much, except that she has a HUGE mountain ahead of her. Math and science don't come easy to her, so she'll have to make up what she lacks in natural talent with ambition and hard work and obsessive study skills.

Here's my plan for her:

If she has access to an IN PERSON college (community college is fine) she needs to meet the prereqs for General Biology 1 with Lab and enroll (4 cr). She should add in her next math (probably intermediate algebra for 3 cr) and any other science in the bio department that she can take without additional prereqs. That might be Microbiology, Anatomy, Physiology, or something else. Also, she should take labs on everything she signs up for. That will be 3 (no lab) or 4 (lab) credits. Her load will be 10-11 credits in math and science, and she should give it her all. At that point, she'll have a better idea of what science looks like academically. If she loves it, then she's off and running for second semester (sciences generally offer part 1 and then part 2).

Ahead of her are other sciences and a specific degree plan that she can follow, but there is no reason to start taking CLEPs until she's in a degree-track, and she's not there yet. I wish her the best, and I will help if she's up for it!

[Jabberwocky]

Don't take this the wrong way, but without having ANY credit in science for a science major, how is she sure she wants to study science in graduate school? I'll be frank, but you'll be gentle when you talk to her. Her placement score put her in remedial math and foundations, she's not yet even taken algebra. Both of her sciences were intros, which means they don't count as science for science majors. What does that mean? Not much, except that she has a HUGE mountain ahead of her. Math and science don't come easy to her, so she'll have to make up what she lacks in natural talent with ambition and hard work and obsessive study skills.

Here's my plan for her:

If she has access to an IN PERSON college (community college is fine) she needs to meet the prereqs for General Biology 1 with Lab and enroll (4 cr). She should add in her next math (probably intermediate algebra for 3 cr) and any other science in the bio department that she can take without additional prereqs. That might be Microbiology, Anatomy, Physiology, or something else. Also, she should take labs on everything she signs up for. That will be 3 (no lab) or 4 (lab) credits. Her load will be 10-11 credits in math and science, and she should give it her all. At that point, she'll have a better idea of what science looks like academically. If she loves it, then she's off and running for second semester (sciences generally offer part 1 and then part 2).

Ahead of her are other sciences and a specific degree plan that she can follow, but there is no reason to start taking CLEPs until she's in a degree-track, and she's not there yet. I wish her the best, and I will help if she's up for it!

I'm glad that you said that because it was a concern I already expressed to her given her previous major and lack of science exposure. She liked science in high school and worked in a lab for a bit and she found she liked it. I'm basically saying to her that I'll help her find the answer but she needs to make sure it's what she wants to do. I appreciate the feedback, sometimes it's nice to hear someone agree to make sure I'm not saying something horribly wrong. I tried to talk to her about it since I have all but 6 courses for a biology degree myself and she seems interested; I think the motivation is there but no real path for her yet on how to get a degree quickly from changing to a TOTALLY different major.

Thanks!

[cookderosa]

I'm glad you took my comments in the spirit they were intended. I want success for her!

[Jabberwocky]

I'm glad you took my comments in the spirit they were intended. I want success for her!

Thanks Cook. I want her to be successful as well; everyone deserves to do something they enjoy even if they were trying for something else and made an "alternative" choice in their degree major.

She and I talked and she is FINALLY going to go for Bio 1 and 2 and Chem 1 and 2 this summer. I feel that will give her a good prep and also the expectation of the fast-paced environment she will face in this degree. I think that will help prep her properly for when she takes 2-3 other science/math in addition to organic chemistry.

And by the way, she is a student at CPCC in Charlotte, NC, as am I. I think you live in the area as well, don't you? So hopefully that gives you an idea of what she has access to. She can get UNCC and CPCC science courses once she completes the Bio 1 and 2. Then she can go to the Carolina Healthcare school for medical technology which will also give her a leg up in the work experience criteria for MS in Toxicology and the labwork experience for her resume.