Excelsior More Money For Tuition Out Of The Big Three?

[Exfactor]

It doesn't matter what the misconceptions of other students are. It only matters what employers and graduate admissions think. They usually don't distinguish between a BA and BS in psychology. Oftentimes, they're expecting to see a BA because there are many schools that only offer a BA in psychology. The differences between BA and BS programs varies by school. At some schools, the difference could be as small as the BA requiring foreign language courses. Some of the top schools in the nation only offer BA programs in the liberal arts e.g. Harvard College. I'm certain that an A.B. from Harvard in anything would look better than a BS from an unranked school.

These are not the misconceptions of students, these are the projections of the deans and faculty. Actually graduates with a B.S in psychology are usually more prepared for graduate course work than those with a B.A due to the course load of labs and science courses that the B.A. lacks. The B.S is generally geared towards those who seek to study psychology on a graduate level. Harvard also lacks majors, and for an unranked school my cousin who is an Excelsior grad sits right next to a Harvard grad.

On forums like Student Doctor, you will also come across those who look down on the psychology field as a whole. You have PAs looking down on nurse practitioners, psychiatrists looking down on psychologists, MDs looking down on DOs and so on and so forth. Your biopsychology professor is still a professor with her BA in biology. She was still able to get her masters or PhD or whatever. If she knew about the history of education, then she would know why BAs in the natural sciences exist. The natural sciences have been considered liberal arts for centuries.

Yet, you are more likely today to find more pre-meds who are psychology majors than anything else. Actually this professor had a B.A in biology, and a M.S in Psychology. The schools I attended graduated more students with B.S degrees than B.A degrees, as it was something they projected.

[sanantone]

These are not the misconceptions of students, these are the projections of the deans and faculty. Actually graduates with a B.S in psychology are usually more prepared for graduate course work than those with a B.A due to the course load of labs and science courses that the B.A. lacks. The B.S is generally geared towards those who seek to study psychology on a graduate level. Harvard also lacks majors, and for an unranked school my cousin who is an Excelsior grad sits right next to a Harvard grad.




Yet, you are more likely today to find more pre-meds who are psychology majors than anything else. Actually this professor had a B.A in biology, and a M.S in Psychology. The schools I attended graduated more students with B.S degrees than B.A degrees, as it was something they projected.

How many sciences and labs did you have to complete for your BS in psychology at Excelsior that you wouldn't have completed with their BA in psychology? I'm pretty sure the answer is 0. That's the misconception right there no matter who it's coming from.

Most people who are admitted to medical school have biology degrees. Your cousin is probably sitting right next to a Harvard grad with an A.B.

These people's BA degrees didn't stop them from getting into a full-funded, biomedical science/neuroscience program at a traditional university.
The University of Texas Health Science Center - Neuroscience Graduate Program - Integrated Multidisciplinary Graduate Program
The University of Texas Health Science Center - Neuroscience Graduate Program - Integrated Multidisciplinary Graduate Program

I'm sure this program cared more about GPA, prerequisites, and GRE scores than something as superficial as whether or not applicants' undergraduate degrees were called a BA or BS. The reality is that those two students completed more science and math courses than you did, or they wouldn't even be in the program. They've probably completed more science courses than most people with a BS in psychology. Any well-informed, intelligent admissions dean would look at the courses completed on the transcript instead of making inferences off of a non-standardized degree title. My younger sister completed a BA in psychology on the premed track and ended up with a minor in biology. I'm sure she completed more science and math courses than you and most other people with a BS in psychology, too.

A lot of the graduate psychology programs I've looked at don't even require psychology degrees.

[Exfactor]

How many sciences and labs did you have to complete for your BS in psychology at Excelsior that you wouldn't have completed with their BA in psychology? I'm pretty sure the answer is 0. That's the misconception right there no matter who it's coming from.

Most people who are admitted to medical school have biology degrees. Your cousin is probably sitting right next to a Harvard grad with an A.B.

These people's BA degrees didn't stop them from getting into a full-funded, biomedical science/neuroscience program at a traditional university.
The University of Texas Health Science Center - Neuroscience Graduate Program - Integrated Multidisciplinary Graduate Program
The University of Texas Health Science Center - Neuroscience Graduate Program - Integrated Multidisciplinary Graduate Program

I'm sure this program cared more about GPA, prerequisites, and GRE scores than something as superficial as whether or not applicants' undergraduate degrees were called a BA or BS. The reality is that those two students completed more science and math courses than you did, or they wouldn't even be in the program. They've probably completed more science courses than most people with a BS in psychology. Any well-informed, intelligent admissions dean would look at the courses completed on the transcript instead of making inferences off of a non-standardized degree title. My younger sister completed a BA in psychology on the premed track and ended up with a minor in biology. I'm sure she completed more science and math courses than you and most other people with a BS in psychology, too.

A lot of the graduate psychology programs I've looked at don't even require psychology degrees.

As I stated before, when I enrolled at Excelsior I enrolled coming from a brick and mortar, I had an abundance of science credits/ with labs in the natural sciences (biology, chemistry, and physics courses, along with psychology courses with labs such as Psychobiology with Lab, Animal Behavior with lab, Research Methods and Statistics with lab, and Learning and Memory with lab) as I stated previously I was initially a biology major before becoming a psychology major. However, theses psychology courses I took are not even psych courses that the brick and mortar I attended require for a B.A in psychology. The requirements for a psychology degree vary based on the school attended, most of the psychology courses I took can't even be offered in an online paradigm. With the large number of pre-med students in the nation who are psychology majors, many schools have increase the science requirements in their B.S in psychology degrees due to the interest of science that these students have, and if I had enrolled at TESC I would have had all the psychology requirements for the psychology degree met without taking any additional courses that Excelsior stated I needed to graduate. And its nice those students were accepted at the graduate level; however, you are still more likely to find students with a B.S in psychology at the graduate level studying psychology than those with a B.A degree.


"Two distinct degree programs are offered in Psychology, the Bachelor of Arts degree and the Bachelor of Science degree. These programs are distinguished by the proportion of courses taken in the major field. For the Bachelor of Arts (B.A.) degree, students take a comparatively smaller number of courses to fulfill the major-field requirements, plus a selection of courses in various fields outside the major. For the Bachelor of Science (B.S.) degree, the student takes a more extensive concentration in the major field, along with designated courses in math and science, and a proportionately smaller number of courses outside the major."

https://psychology.cas2.lehigh.edu/conte...psychology

You don't even know how many math and science courses I completed, I entered college as a Biology major (pre-med track) at a brick and mortar completing actual courses and labs on campus, not taking UExcels, TECEP, and straighterline courses trying to complete a biology degree in a distant learning paradigm.

[sanantone]

I'm looking at the student biographies at North Carolina State University and NYU. Out of the students who have their undergraduate degrees listed, most of them have a BA in psychology or another major. NCSU is ranked #95 nationally and #101 in psychology. That's not all that impressive, but NYU is ranked #32 nationally, #30 in psychology, #9 in social psychology, and #9 in behavioral neuroscience.
Department of Psychology: Student Bios
http://psych.nyu.edu/programs/soc/students.html

The overwhelming majority of doctoral students in Columbia University's sociomedical sciences program have BA degrees.
Meet Some of Our Doctoral Students | Sociomedical Sciences | Sociomedical Sciences | Mailman School

[sanantone]

As I stated before, when I enrolled at Excelsior I enrolled coming from a brick and mortar, I had an abundance of science credits/ with labs in the natural sciences (biology, chemistry, and physics courses, along with psychology courses with labs such as Psychobiology with Lab, Animal Behavior with lab, Research Methods and Statistics with lab, and Learning and Memory with lab) as I stated previously I was initially a biology major before becoming a psychology major. However, theses psychology courses I took are not even psych courses that the brick and mortar I attended require for a B.A in psychology. The requirements for a psychology degree vary based on the school attended, most of the psychology courses I took can't even be offered in an online paradigm. With the large number of pre-med students in the nation who are psychology majors, many schools have increase the science requirements in their B.S in psychology degrees due to the interest of science that these students have, and if I had enrolled at TESC I would have had all the psychology requirements for the psychology degree met without taking any additional courses that Excelsior stated I needed to graduate. And its nice those students were accepted at the graduate level; however, you are still more likely to find students with a B.S in psychology at the graduate level studying psychology than those with a B.A degree.


"Two distinct degree programs are offered in Psychology, the Bachelor of Arts degree and the Bachelor of Science degree. These programs are distinguished by the proportion of courses taken in the major field. For the Bachelor of Arts (B.A.) degree, students take a comparatively smaller number of courses to fulfill the major-field requirements, plus a selection of courses in various fields outside the major. For the Bachelor of Science (B.S.) degree, the student takes a more extensive concentration in the major field, along with designated courses in math and science, and a proportionately smaller number of courses outside the major."

https://psychology.cas2.lehigh.edu/conte...psychology

You don't even know how many math and science courses I completed, I entered college as a Biology major (pre-med track) at a brick and mortar completing actual courses and labs on campus, not taking UExcels, TECEP, and straighterline courses trying to complete a biology degree in a distant learning paradigm.

Sure, you took more science and math courses because you wanted to, not because you had to for your psychology degree. Being in a BS in psychology program does not mean you're automatically on the premed track. In most cases, you have to choose to be on the premed track if it's available at your school or choose to fill up your electives with premed courses. These options are normally available to any major regardless of whether they are in a BA or BS program. As I said, my younger sister was a BA in psychology major who was on the premed track. Her school does not offer a BS in psychology.

Most of the doctoral students in the psychology department at Georgetown University have BA degrees.
http://psychology.georgetown.edu/people/phd-students

[Exfactor]

I'm looking at the student biographies at North Carolina State University and NYU. Out of the students who have their undergraduate degrees listed, most of them have a BA in psychology or another major. NCSU is ranked #95 nationally and #101 in psychology. That's not all that impressive, but NYU is ranked #32 nationally, #30 in psychology, #9 in social psychology, and #9 in behavioral neuroscience.
Department of Psychology: Student Bios
http://psych.nyu.edu/programs/soc/students.html

The overwhelming majority of doctoral students in Columbia University's sociomedical sciences program have BA degrees.
Meet Some of Our Doctoral Students | Sociomedical Sciences | Sociomedical Sciences | Mailman School

This is called cherry-picking.

Sure, you took more science and math courses because you wanted to, not because you had to for your psychology degree. Being in a BS in psychology program does not mean you're automatically on the premed track. In most cases, you have to choose to be on the premed track if it's available at your school or choose to fill up your electives with premed courses. These options are normally available to any major regardless of whether they are in a BA or BS program. As I said, my younger sister was a BA in psychology major who was on the premed track. Her school does not offer a BS in psychology.

At the brick and mortar I attended Bio 1 and Bio 2 was required, along with a choice of Chem 1 and Chem 2 or Physics 1 and 2, along with Calculus, along with Psychobiology with the Laboratory and Animal Behavior with the Laboratory, which are core curriculum requirements for the B.S degree.

[sanantone]

This is called cherry-picking.

This is called providing some concrete evidence. I'm the type of person who needs more evidence than "Student Doctor says so." Georgetown, NYU, and Columbia University are nothing to sneeze at. Even NCSU's ranking is not that bad compared to the graduate schools many of the students on this forum attend. If I could find student bios for the top psychology programs, I would link to those.

At the brick and mortar I attended Bio 1 and Bio 2 was required, along with a choice of Chem 1 and Chem 2 or Physics 1 and 2, along with Calculus, along with Psychobiology with the Laboratory and Animal Behavior with the Laboratory, which are core curriculum requirements for the B.S degree.

Morehouse requires precalculus and one semester of chemistry or physics; I looked at their requirements. Two semesters of chemistry and physics is recommended, but not required. Those science and math requirements aren't all that impressive and aren't enough for premed.

To respond to your earlier statement about having to take more courses at Excelsior than at TESC -- that would have been true if you had chosen Excelsior's BA in psychology. The only difference between their BA and BS is that the BS allows for more applied professional credits. Applied professional does not include math or science, as you know, but does include subjects like business and emergency management (FEMA courses from FCC).

[Exfactor]

This is called providing some concrete evidence. I'm the type of person who needs more evidence than "Student Doctor says so." Georgetown, NYU, and Columbia University are nothing to sneeze at. Even NCSU's ranking is not that bad compared to the graduate schools many of the students on this forum attend. If I could find student bios for the top psychology programs, I would link to those.

What concrete evidence? I don't see any projected evidence displayed by you. All I see is cherry-picked data trying to prove a point, which you have yet provided to do so. If I had as much free time as you I could also link to top rank programs with a majority of students with a B.S in psychology. Making claims not knowing what you talking about... i.e me and my so called lack of science courses. Rush to judgement eh?

Morehouse requires precalculus and one semester of chemistry or physics; I looked at their requirements. Two semesters of chemistry and physics is recommended, but not required. Those science and math requirements aren't all that impressive and aren't enough for premed.

To respond to your earlier statement about having to take more courses at Excelsior than at TESC -- that would have been true if you had chosen Excelsior's BA in psychology. The only difference between their BA and BS is that the BS allows for more applied professional credits. Applied professional does not include math or science, as you know, but does include subjects like business and emergency management (FEMA courses from FCC).

False. Under my admission policy, and degree audit such is stated as I said a year of bio, and a year of chem or physics, they have now decrease such to a semester, yet such is still required where the B.A lacks it. Nope, applied to TESC B.A in psychology had all the psych requirements met. You can have applied professional or additional arts and sciences credits for the B.S., I filled that area with sciences courses.

[sanantone]

What concrete evidence? I don't see any projected evidence displayed by you. All I see is cherry-picked data trying to prove a point, which you have yet provided to do so. If I had as much free time as you I could also link to top rank programs with a majority of students with a B.S in psychology. Making claims not knowing what you talking about... i.e me and my so called lack of science courses. Rush to judgement eh?

You provided zero evidence that most graduate students in psychology programs have BS degrees. I wasn't cherry picking; those were the only biographies I could find. Of course, I didn't provide a good sample, but you didn't provide anything. Zip, zilch, zero.

False. Under my admission policy, and degree audit such is stated as I said a year of bio, and a year of chem or physics, they have now decrease such to a semester, yet such is still required where the B.A lacks it.

How is my statement false when that is what they currently require?

Nope, applied to TESC B.A in psychology had all the psych requirements met. You can have applied professional or additional arts and sciences credits for the B.S., I filled that area with sciences courses.

I don't think you understood what I was saying. The requirements for Excelsior's BA and BS in psychology are exactly the same except that the BS allows for more applied professional credits. Regardless of if you had chosen the BA or BS at Excelsior, you would have still had to complete more courses than at TESC. It has nothing to do with TESC only offering a BA degree.

[sanantone]

From the American Psychological Association.

Some students wonder whether it is more advantageous to have a BA or BS in psychology. In truth, there is often little difference between the two degrees. Some schools only offer a BA, others only BS. The requirements for the two degrees might overlap completely. Even when a school offers a choice of either a BA or BS, your decision may not be all that critical. The more important consideration is taking courses that will prepare you for the program you want to enter as a graduate student.
In general, graduate programs require only introductory psychology, statistics and experimental psychology/research methods. Naturally, you would want to take more courses to show that you are serious about psychology and have adequate preparation to do graduate work. Graduate schools want a solid background in psychology; they will teach you the rest. It would probably be a good idea to investigate specific programs of study to be certain you have taken the appropriate undergraduate courses.

Frequently Asked Questions About Undergraduate Psychology

Since you linked to Lehigh (talk about cherry picking), I will link to what University of Missouri has to say.

We offer the Bachelor of Arts in Psychology (BA) degree to students interested in studying human behavior in preparation for either employment after completion of the undergraduate psychology degree, or in preparation for applied psychology and other related graduate programs (e.g., counseling, social work, management).

We offer the Bachelor of Science in Psychology (BS) degree to students interested in a more science-oriented curriculum to better prepare them for further study in science-oriented psychology graduate programs (e.g., neuroscience, quantitative psychology), or medical school (e.g., Doctor of Medicine/MD, psychiatry), or other health-related graduate programs (e.g., pharmacy, physical therapy).

Apparently, they think the BA is better for applied psychology and counseling. Aren't you in an applied psychology program?
B.A. vs. B.S. in Psychology | Psychological Sciences

UC Denver

What do you plan to do after you graduate?
Students completing a degree in psychology, whether it is a BA or a BS, may successfully follow many paths after graduation. You should consider what you plan to do after college when deciding to pursue the BA or BS degree in psychology. For example, many students with interests in areas such as counseling psychology, social work, industrial and organizational psychology, social psychology, and developmental psychology may benefit most from completing a BA degree program in psychology, and students whose interests lie in areas such as biopsychology, psychopharmacology, neuroscience, psychiatry, neuropsychology, sports psychology, physical therapy, pharmacy, genetic counseling, public health, medicine, dentistry, and veterinary medicine may benefit most from completing a BS degree program in psychology.

BA/BS Comparison | Department of Psychology | University of Colorado Denver

University of Arizona

You may pursue one of two degree options with a major in Psychology: the Bachelor of Arts (BA) or the Bachelor of Science (BS). As you might expect, the BS requires more intensive science courses. It also has a higher math requirement. The BA requires a higher level of language proficiency. There is no difference in the Psychology major requirements. A common misconception is that the BS degree is always better than the BA degree in Psychology. This is not true. Each degree is appropriate for different graduate programs and/or career options. You should choose your degree program based on your academic strengths and career goals/interests.

The Bachelor of Arts is appropriate for careers in law, social work, counseling, business, education, etc. Further education beyond the Bachelor’s degree is usually required to pursue a career in these fields.

The Bachelor of Science is appropriate for careers in health, medicine or science intensive fields. Again, further education beyond the Bachelor’s degree is usually required to pursue a career in these fields.

Major Information Session | Department of Psychology

University of North Carolina

Both the BA and the BS provide a broad foundation in psychology. Your choice will depend on the kinds of courses
you wish to take outside of psychology and how much your future plans require undergraduate coursework in
math and science.
BA: Bachelor of Arts in Psychology
 About 75% of psychology majors at UNC complete a BA.
 The breadth of psychology courses taken for a BA is good preparation for graduate school in psychology.
 The BA gives students greater freedom to select courses they wish to complete for general education
requirements and electives.
BS: Bachelor of Science in Psychology
 The BS requires more math, physical science, life science, and laboratory courses from other
departments.
 The BS is appropriate preparation for a more science-based career, such as lab research or medicine.
 The BS is appropriate for a student who wishes to specialize in quantitative psychology, behavioral
neuroscience, or biological psychology.
Should I do a BA or BS if I want to go to graduate school?
Psychology graduate programs do not care whether you have a BS or a BA. Having a BS does not give you
any special advantage when applying to psychology graduate programs. Graduate programs focus on the
following factors when evaluating applicants:
 Overall GPA
 GRE scores
 Psychology courses completed
 Grades in psychology courses
 Research experience
 Letters of recommendation
 Personal statement
 For some clinical and counseling psychology programs: Volunteer or paid work in a setting in
which you have helped people

https://advising.unc.edu/files/2013/05/P...s-2013.pdf

This opinion is a little different, but I'll post it because I'm not "cherry picking."

Which option is best for you depends on your goals. Five of the most common goals of majors are below.

1. Graduate study in traditional Ph.D. psychology programs which have a strong research emphasis. This includes clinical or counseling psychology.

2. Graduate study in a masters psychology program, leading to a career in counseling.

3. Graduate or professional study in law, social work, public affairs, medical school, education, allied health fields, or business.

4. Career preparation with no plans for immediate graduate study.

5. Liberal arts education using psychology for personal growth.

If your goal is a Ph.D. in research psychology, we strongly encourage you to complete a BS. Students with goals 2 through 5 generally opt for the BA. Its flexibility allows them to take the courses in and out of psychology which provide the best preparation for their individual goals.

University of Washington Psychology Department

UC Davis

Graduate and professional schools in general are not concerned with the kind of degree you possess but rather with the courses you have taken. Generally speaking, graduate programs check your GPA, statement of purpose, letters of recommendation and GRE test scores. If you are genuinely interested in math or the natural sciences, you may prefer to go the B.S. route. The A.B. degree may be attractive to students interested in earning a minor or perhaps pursuing a double major, and for students who desire more freedom when choosing their elective psychology courses.


The B.S. and A.B. degrees are equally acceptable for students interested in Psychology graduate school and pre-professional schools (check with the pre-health, pre-law, or pre-graduate advisers in Advising Services, South Hall, for details).

UC Davis, Psychology : Undergraduate Information

The BA curriculum is a less research intensive educational experience. As such, the
BA degree is designed to provide a broad understanding of psychology, as a potential
preparation for professional schools (e.g. law, medicine), non-research oriented graduate
school programs, professional masters programs in counseling, or as a general liberal arts
career preparation. The BS curriculum provides a research intensive educational experience
where students acquire the ability to apply the methods used to acquire evidence-based
knowledge about psychological phenomena. As such, the BS degree is designed for
students interested in graduate study in doctoral psychology programs which have a
significant research emphasis.

Major in Psychology : Saint Louis University College of Arts and Sciences : SLU