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Fail State - documentary about Higher Education for-profit schools
#11
At my job I've known a few people who got scammed by such colleges. One of my coworkers actually appeared in a local Newspaper after she spent all this money to be a radiology tech in some for profit school. The school closed halfway through her training and nobody else would take her credits.
I have two coworkers who got scammed by another tech school in Anaheim, California. I actually looked into them looking into a Biomed Degree which I think some places do take because training for Biomed is scarce around here. It does seem expensive and after I read their website a bunch of red flags went up. They offered an Electrical Engineering Degree at an accelerated pace. I was shocked that such a small school could offer such a degree in a short period of time. Their electrician classes did not seem to qualify to get a trainee card from the state of California which was a big red flag.
One of my coworkers got an "HVAC" certificate from one such school, I'm not sure if its the same one.
He is going back to school for HVAC again. I questioned him why he would go back to get another certificate for something he already had. He avoided my questions but he keeps doing dumb things so I try to keep an eye of him so he won't get scammed again.
Eventually he showed me the certificate he got which was basically a class to get the Universal EPA license and an OSHA safety class. Last time I checked the study guide for the EPA License was 12 pages long and my local community college offers an OSHA safety class which is 3 units. That's all he got from them. He took out a loan which he is still paying for. I was floored when I figured it out and asked him if that's all he got from them. He said yea but they made us study a lot and it was fast paced to get the EPA certificate. For $15,000 I would have cooked him breakfast and made sure he passed the test.
Then there is the really sad story. My new Coworker who went to that school in Anaheim. This poor soul got the Electrical Engineering Degree from that school. He spent all of his GI Bill money to get the degree and took out a loan when the GI BIll ran out. Now he is working in a position far below me in some off shift. I've had to train him on doing some basic electrical tasks. He is always asking for training and asking me to show him how to do things. I don't even mention that he is supposed to be an Electrical Engineer to our coworkers so as not to embarrass him. On the bright side he did get a few extra bucks when he got hired because of his training.
That college seems to prey on Veterans fresh out of the military. They milk their GI Bill money and send them out with Degrees that are questionable.
There does seem to be some success stories with some such colleges. I was looking at management jobs for my field around my area and what sort of education such managers had. I found one manager at a local company that is similar to mine. He had two degrees from a local Nationally credited University in Santa Ana, California.
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#12
(12-12-2018, 04:02 AM)sanantone Wrote: I believe ITT Tech was charging over $40k for associate's programs.

They were....in the late 1990s/early 2000s. I talked to one of their enrollment counselors back then about getting their new IT degree. I noped the F out when they told me the price.
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#13
(12-12-2018, 04:02 AM)sanantone Wrote:
(12-11-2018, 03:25 PM)cookderosa Wrote:
(12-11-2018, 02:57 PM)davewill Wrote: It's only $3.99 on Google Play and Youtube...

well, $1 down, 3.99 to go Wink

Hitting on Sanantone's point- it's sooo soooo soooo tricky.  I am 100% on the ball about this stuff, but watching my 3 sons fill out FAFSA and get financial aid packages changes you from thinking that everyone is stupid and not paying attention to understanding how people get duped.

Colleges pitch a "Financial Aid Package" but sometimes students don't realize they are taking out loans.  Colleges do NOT do a great job of separating, and that's not even at the for-profits (I haven't seen a Financial Aid Package from one, but would be interested to).  Anyway, the roll in tuition, fees, LIVING EXPENSES, etc.  and make it "look like" you need X for the school year - sign here.  In order to line item out the loans, they have to rewrite the entire package using just grants, institutional scholarships, work-study, etc.  I watched a financial aid officer roll her eyes at the boy and his mom in front of us because he was asking questions.  (at a community college) it's hard to pinpoint because it's transparent (everything is written in clear English) but there is just something in the process that makes it too easy for kids (and adults) to over-borrow.  I realize fees can be expensive (they are here  in NC anyway) but it's just so slimy.  I think it's the word they use:  "AWARD" like it's a gift - a scholarship- a present. No, an award is none of those things, it's a LOAN.  I honestly don't think it's obvious to everyone.

Edit, I found on Northeastern's website a really good breakdown of the "award" letter as well as a sample. Not sure how to screenshot- but here's the link - it's worth checking out. https://studentfinance.northeastern.edu/...our-award/


The difference between Everest and a community college was that you actually needed to take out tens of thousands just to cover tuition. It was not a cheap career school. I believe ITT Tech was charging over $40k for associate's programs. They charged more than the max someone could get in financial aid, so students signed for high-interest loans directly from the school. 

If a school's tuition for an associate's degree is more expensive than a new car, then run!

$40k??? Crap.
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#14
(12-12-2018, 09:37 AM)quigongene Wrote:
(12-12-2018, 04:02 AM)sanantone Wrote: I believe ITT Tech was charging over $40k for associate's programs.

They were....in the late 1990s/early 2000s.  I talked to one of their enrollment counselors back then about getting their new IT degree.  I noped the F out when they told me the price.

And, I remember that their bachelor's degree programs ranged from $80k to over $90k. Even for independent students, the cap on financial aid is not high enough to cover that much tuition for undergraduate programs. 

(12-12-2018, 09:45 AM)cookderosa Wrote:
(12-12-2018, 04:02 AM)sanantone Wrote:
(12-11-2018, 03:25 PM)cookderosa Wrote:
(12-11-2018, 02:57 PM)davewill Wrote: It's only $3.99 on Google Play and Youtube...

well, $1 down, 3.99 to go Wink

Hitting on Sanantone's point- it's sooo soooo soooo tricky.  I am 100% on the ball about this stuff, but watching my 3 sons fill out FAFSA and get financial aid packages changes you from thinking that everyone is stupid and not paying attention to understanding how people get duped.

Colleges pitch a "Financial Aid Package" but sometimes students don't realize they are taking out loans.  Colleges do NOT do a great job of separating, and that's not even at the for-profits (I haven't seen a Financial Aid Package from one, but would be interested to).  Anyway, the roll in tuition, fees, LIVING EXPENSES, etc.  and make it "look like" you need X for the school year - sign here.  In order to line item out the loans, they have to rewrite the entire package using just grants, institutional scholarships, work-study, etc.  I watched a financial aid officer roll her eyes at the boy and his mom in front of us because he was asking questions.  (at a community college) it's hard to pinpoint because it's transparent (everything is written in clear English) but there is just something in the process that makes it too easy for kids (and adults) to over-borrow.  I realize fees can be expensive (they are here  in NC anyway) but it's just so slimy.  I think it's the word they use:  "AWARD" like it's a gift - a scholarship- a present. No, an award is none of those things, it's a LOAN.  I honestly don't think it's obvious to everyone.

Edit, I found on Northeastern's website a really good breakdown of the "award" letter as well as a sample. Not sure how to screenshot- but here's the link - it's worth checking out. https://studentfinance.northeastern.edu/...our-award/


The difference between Everest and a community college was that you actually needed to take out tens of thousands just to cover tuition. It was not a cheap career school. I believe ITT Tech was charging over $40k for associate's programs. They charged more than the max someone could get in financial aid, so students signed for high-interest loans directly from the school. 

If a school's tuition for an associate's degree is more expensive than a new car, then run!

$40k???  Crap.

Yeah, and I get that they aren't subsidized like community colleges are, but more traditional private schools tend to graduate their students with much less debt than ITT Tech and many of the other ACICS schools did. When ACICS temporarily lost its recognition, most of their schools went searching for other accreditors. What's interesting is that the other national accreditors determined that some of the ACICS schools didn't meet their standards for accreditation. ACICS is really bottom of the barrel.
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