Harvard Extension School Students Rally for Degree Name Change

[ReyMysterioso]

Going back to the original subject of the post, in full disclosure I was one of the 20 demonstrating. There were HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of HES students on campus for the inspiring Convocation ceremony the day before. Consequently there was a lot of celebrating going on late into the night. I didn't get in until about 2am. So I think that contributed to the turnout being a lot lower than Christiansen had hoped for.

Two days prior there was a protest for human rights in Iran. In the grand scheme of things, I remarked "in light of the serious issues of that demonstration the other day, I feel a little bit silly complaining about a semantics quirk on a diploma."

Nevertheless, the first documented student protest in American history was the Butter Rebellion of 1766, precipitated by Asa Dunbar yelling "Our butter stinketh!" and smashing a container against the wall, kicking off a riot in the sophomore dining hall.

So as minor as my gripe was, I was at least proud to have participated in the 256 year tradition of Harvard student protests. I guess I helped write another tiny footnote in history.

My kids think that's pretty cool.

[Life_One]

"Could you tell me how the classes are better/different at HES compared to the others? I mean, what sets HES classes apart from say ASU? The professors? The environment? The material?"

Sure, so I'll try to compare/contrast.
U. Memphis: Took 3 free classes.  Very autopilot. Somebody does grade your stuff but there's no REAL feedback of substance. No interaction with instructors or classmates. I could not tell you who the heck the instructors were. There were names but you never got any sense who they were. Brightspace platform. Dysfunctional school. Took six months to get an answer on how you get credit for the free classes. (You basically can't.)

Texas A&M Commerce: BAAS program - Took 2 classes as an admitted degree candidate. Classes were pretty much identical experience to Memphis - autopilot/no interaction. But the student advisor is A++ for whatever that's worth.

Jacksonville State U.: Took 2 free classes: Limited interaction with instructors, zero interaction with classmates. They make announcements, send you emails identical to the announcements, one or two give a prerecorded lecture or message in a video. All of them have a picture so you at least know what they look like, unlike the folks at Memphis or TAMUC. Easy quizzes with multiple attempts. No writing. Easy/no real rigor. Some of the content is really interesting. Canvas platform.

COSC: Took the required in-residency cornerstone & capstone in the Business program. Limited interaction with instructors. Writing projects, weekly discussion board posts, assigned reading. HIGH interaction with classmates on group projects. In the grand scheme of things, it all felt like the lowest-quality resources of any school I've done except for ENEB. Outdated blackboard platform and outdated message boards. Boring readings. Instructors felt like they were going through the motions and just making a paycheck. I never recommend COSC to anyone. There's no way to say this without sounding harsh, but the quality of the other students was questionable. Perhaps I just had bad luck with my cohort, but I didn't feel like I was in classes with other smart, capable students contributing to our collective education.

ASU: Took 11 classes through Universal Learner. Classes are all on "autopilot." Classes used to be on white-labeled Edx platform but are all moving to Canvas. High-quality resources! Excellent videos. High-quality instructors know their subject and are good at teaching it - although you have limited-to-no interactions. Innovative interactive "lab" elements. Many classes work in a creative project for a participation grade (only 5% of overall grade) that leaves it wide open to produce any kind of creative multimedia work you want. I thought that was a neat aspect. No real interaction with other students. I recommend ASU Univeral Learner to anyone and everyone who'll listen because the value is great.

ENEB: Total garbage. Kinda scammy. You just fill out template assignment papers, then them in and get a grade from some anonymous rando. That's it. That's the program. There's some very outdated content in there but there's no point in reading it since 100% of the grade is the single paper-project per class..

HES: There have been three types of classes in my program. All on Canvas.
1. Asynchronous with pre-recorded video content, yellowdig discussion board posts, quizzes and a paper. In these, the pre-recorded content was very high quality. They would shoot them on location at actual places in which the subject matter historically happened and explain a lot of social context of the era. You really learned a lot. The videos would sometimes have prominent guests the instructor would talk to such as nationally known statesmen and accomplished writers or scholars. These require at least one live zoom meeting interacting with instructors. Your feedback on the paper is detailed and thorough. So I would say relatively low student interaction, medium instructor interaction.

2. Synchronous or Asynchronous optional. So there's a weekly live zoom class you can choose to attend. It gets recorded and you can watch it later if your schedule conflicts with being able to attend live. Constitution & The Media was this format. The instructor was a Supreme Court clerk during some of the very prominent Court decisions we studied and talked about the events from personal experience. He is a very accomplished attorney, federal special prosecutor and scholar. A lot of Supreme Court goings on were happening during this class coincidentally and we would frequently ask him questions about current events. His insights were fascinating. VERY high instructor and classmate interaction. Class was by far the most rigorous I've ever had anywhere.

3. Synchronous. This is the majority of the classes' format. Weekly mandatory zoom meetings with lectures and/or workshops. Discussion board posts. Numerous writing assignments - some graded some not. Some in-class. Some homework. (In-class was never graded but always interesting.) Some writing assignments would be spontaneously added and not in the syllabus, so you got a little extra challenge. But you could always learn something from the different approaches you see other students take. Very high instructor interaction/classmate interactions. Instructors are very supportive and want to see you succeed/grow. It varies a little, so some are better than others. None are bad (so far), and the good ones are REALLY good. And the student quality is higher than anything I've experienced anywhere else. Every other higher ed situation I kinda felt like maybe I was the smartest guy in the room. At HES I feel like the dumbest. People that come here are sharp, bring a wealth of experiences. Many of the older students are very successful in their careers. Some are just getting started and you might be more of a mentor to them. The vast majority of the students bring positive attitudes and are invested in each others' growth and all want to see each other succeed.

So in a nutshell, compared to all the other college experiences I've had, HES has had the most immersive, the most positive and supportive learning environments, and also the most rigorous and challenging, and most rewarding. There is also more extracurricular support. I added one guy from COSC on Linkedin and never talked to him again. I have otherwise never connected with any other student from any other school. But at HES, there are dedicated facebook groups for programs, for HES in general. Whatsapp groups form for classes. I've become good friends with several classmates. We text each other all the time, give each other advice. I even ended up buying the current student president's autobiography, haha. He had a really "interesting" life. A great comeback story of overcoming drug/alchohol addiction.
I wasn't sure at all what to expected when I started my higher ed journey online several years back...but whatever I wanted out of college/learning experience, HES delivered it and more. And I can't say that about any other school I've taken classes with.

The obvious caveat here is that I'm comparing a grad program to undergrad classes.

This is awesome! Seriously, thank you so much!

[ReyMysterioso]

I forgot in my compare/contrast that I did actually do a free term one time when Walden were offering it. That one WAS a grad program in....I think management or marketing or something. Walden was comparable to my descriptions of U Memphis and TAMUC. It was kinda on autopilot. The assignments were much bigger than undergrad assignments. It was a write-to-the-rubric situation. It felt like a lot of uninteresting busywork. The instructor did email you more often than they do in U Memphis or TAMUC. I only completed one class, decided I didn't like the program, format or Walden's for-profit reputation and dropped it before it cost anything.

[IReallyNeedADegree]

I'm not a big fan of all 'extension' schools lol
That means you're getting 'less than' normal school.
Less prestige, less competitive admissions, less challenging education, etc ...

Why bother with 'extension' schools unless you're not serious about degrees?

There are many other top universities that offer 'online' version of their degree programs that don't come with 'extension' stigma.
These top school 'online' programs are interchangeable with their on-campus programs. e.g. you can start as an online student and later transfer to on-campus program.
I choose these top school online programs over any watered down 'extension' programs.

could you tell me more about these programs?

[InItForFun]

I can see the students' point but I can also see Harvard's side in this. You're not attending the Harvard. You're in the Extension School. Much like when you attend PUG, you're not attending Purdue.

I have to chime in on this.  HES is 100% the “real Harvard.”  It’s one of the 12 degree granting schools of Harvard and is more than 100 years old.  Is it Harvard College?  No, but neither is the Harvard Kennedy School and that’s still “real Harvard.”  

HES is the second largest degree granting school st Harvard University, graduates receive Harvard University degrees at Harvard Commencement in Harvard Yard alongside all other Harvard Schools, and the president of the graduate student government is an HES student right now.  Harvard College students can take over 200 HES classes for credit in the Summer, and many classes are virtually identical, including faculty, to the classes taught in other Harvard schools.

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

[bluebooger]

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

you don't have to apply to get into a degree program

https://extension.harvard.edu/academics/...e-degrees/

are the other schools like that ?

it may be the same courses someone who applied and got accepted have to take                   
but if they had to submit an application and be evaluated and you didn't then its not the same

[InItForFun]

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

you don't have to apply to get into a degree program

https://extension.harvard.edu/academics/...e-degrees/

are the other schools like that ?

it may be the same courses someone who applied and got accepted have to take                   
but if they had to submit an application and be evaluated and you didn't then its not the same

Anyone can take a course or earn a certificate, but you must apply for admission to a degree program.  The application requires that you first take 2 or 3 courses, earn a B or better in those courses, then submit transcripts, essay, and resume. 

In 2016, HES reported that 32% of students who attempted admission were admitted (I haven’t seen a more recent number).  That’s a lower admission rate than many HGSE (Graduate School of Education) and HKS (Kennedy School) programs.  https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2...-we-serve/

And again, the degree is issued by and says “Harvard University”. It’s the best deal in distance education - everyone should try it.

[jsd]

everyone should try it.

I'd agree if the ROI matched traditional Harvard. But until then, I don't want to be fighting the reputation, regardless if the reputation is truly earned or not.

[durain]

everyone should try it.

I'd agree if the ROI matched traditional Harvard. But until then, I don't want to be fighting the reputation, regardless if the reputation is truly earned or not.

I agree that the unfair criticism has tainted the reputation of Harvard Extension School. It can be really frustrating to obtain a degree from there and face questions such as 'Is this really a Harvard degree?".

[InItForFun]

everyone should try it.

I'd agree if the ROI matched traditional Harvard. But until then, I don't want to be fighting the reputation, regardless if the reputation is truly earned or not.

I agree that the unfair criticism has tainted the reputation of Harvard Extension School. It can be really frustrating to obtain a degree from there and face questions such as 'Is this really a Harvard degree?".

The thing is, I’ve never had any sort of criticism or any question about the validity.  I’ve received an interview from every company to which I’ve submitted a resume since graduating.  I’ve worked in high profile jobs next to graduates from other Harvard Schools - no one has ever been negative.  Instead the feed back is along the lines of “you went to Harvard while working full time?”  It’s not the same as attending one of the big names (HBS, HLS, HMS, College) but it’s similar to attending one of the other 8 schools.

It seems the only people who negatively comment are 15 year olds on the internet.  They’re the same people that tell you that if you attend an undergraduate school other than Harvard, Princeton, or Stanford, your life is over.  Don’t listen to them - they don’t know, they’re guessing.