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(04-25-2019, 12:08 PM)jsd Wrote: (04-24-2019, 08:06 PM)nosey561 Wrote: Even if you are correct,the same can be said for Straighterline,which has many open book exams and searchable textbooks.What about Sophia,where the final exam is not actually proctored and you only need 50% to pass?
In summary,even on other sites such as study.com, since only the final is proctored,cheating is always possible,since the final exam is only 20 or 30 percent of the entire grade.
There haven't been dozens of posts advocating manipulating those systems, so the point is moot. When Shmoop first came around, there was a large contingency of people here advocating just that, and we know by what Shmoop has publicly said that a person with an unusual amount of credits within a day or so made TESU take a second look.
I personally don't care what you or anyone is doing with Sophia or Study.com or where ever. I'm just telling you the series of events that happened around when TESU first announced they'd be rejecting Shmoop. "Shmoop has publicly said that a person with an unusual amount of credits within a day or so"
Was it a day or was it a month? Check your sources. BTW there are plenty of posts regarding finishing a ton of courses in 1 month from Straighterline,study.com,etc,so why the focus on Shmoop? Just be accurate and truthful regarding the time frame.
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04-25-2019, 03:21 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2019, 03:28 PM by jsd.)
(04-25-2019, 02:51 PM)nosey561 Wrote: Was it a day or was it a month? Check your sources.
My recollection was a matter of days, but if you know something I don't then I don't mind being corrected. It doesn't change anything about my point.
(04-25-2019, 02:51 PM)nosey561 Wrote: BTW there are plenty of posts regarding finishing a ton of courses in 1 month from Straighterline,study.com,etc,so why the focus on Shmoop?
The focus on shmoop is because they're the provider that TESU no longer accepts, lol. I don't get the question. And while plenty of people finish things quickly elsewhere, I've never seen a number of people here openly advocate cheating like they were for shmoop (except maybe occasionally with ALEKS, which also had to remodel their delivery).
You seem to be getting a little aggressive about this, and I'm not sure why. I don't like that TESU doesn't take Shmoop, and I don't hold anything against Shmoop. I've never taken their courses but would if I needed something they offered. I'm literally just discussing what happened back when this went down.
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(04-25-2019, 02:51 PM)nosey561 Wrote: so why the focus on Shmoop?
Because they're the ones TESU banned? Why would we talk about it for SL/Study.com when it's not an issue?
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(04-25-2019, 03:21 PM)jsd Wrote: (04-25-2019, 02:51 PM)nosey561 Wrote: Was it a day or was it a month? Check your sources.
My recollection was a matter of days, but if you know something I don't then I don't mind being corrected. It doesn't change anything about my point.
(04-25-2019, 02:51 PM)nosey561 Wrote: BTW there are plenty of posts regarding finishing a ton of courses in 1 month from Straighterline,study.com,etc,so why the focus on Shmoop?
The focus on shmoop is because they're the provider that TESU no longer accepts, lol. I don't get the question. And while plenty of people finish things quickly elsewhere, I've never seen a number of people here openly advocate cheating like they were for shmoop (except maybe occasionally with ALEKS, which also had to remodel their delivery).
You seem to be getting a little aggressive about this, and I'm not sure why. I don't like that TESU doesn't take Shmoop, and I don't hold anything against Shmoop. I've never taken their courses but would if I needed something they offered. I'm literally just discussing what happened back when this went down. For your recollection, below is the email from a year ago.
https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...-temporary
"Hi [jsd],
Thanks for reaching out! We're working with Thomas Edison State University and the team at ACE to get this resolved as quickly as possible.
To give you a quick background on the issue: TESU identified a student who transferred an unusually high number of credits from Shmoop in a short amount of time, and they made the decision to pause their acceptance of Shmoop coursework while they look into the situation further. Please note that this temporary pause in accepting our courses only applies to TESU; no other institutions should be affected by this.
Rest assured, we're working closely—and quickly—with TESU to address this situation, and we hope that they will resume accepting Shmoop ACE recommended courses for transfer credit.
Once things have cleared up with TESU, we hope you'll continue to find Shmoop to be a great resource for you!
Best,
Team Shmoop"
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(04-25-2019, 03:21 PM)jsd Wrote: (04-25-2019, 02:51 PM)nosey561 Wrote: Was it a day or was it a month? Check your sources.
My recollection was a matter of days, but if you know something I don't then I don't mind being corrected. It doesn't change anything about my point.
Here is a copy of the quote from Shmoop from the original thread on what triggered the ban...
"Thanks for reaching out! We're working with Thomas Edison State University and the team at ACE to get this resolved as quickly as possible.
To give you a quick background on the issue: TESU identified a student who transferred an unusually high number of credits from Shmoop in a short amount of time, and they made the decision to pause their acceptance of Shmoop coursework while they look into the situation further. Please note that this temporary pause in accepting our courses only applies to TESU; no other institutions should be affected by this."
The implication is that someone was caught cheating and TESU instituted the ban because they no longer trusted in Shmoop's approach to academic integrity. At the time Shmoop thought the ban was temporary, but obviously, it has become permanent.
(04-25-2019, 02:51 PM)nosey561 Wrote: BTW there are plenty of posts regarding finishing a ton of courses in 1 month from Straighterline,study.com,etc,so why the focus on Shmoop?
Considering there are students who submit transcripts showing that they are able to complete 20+ credits during a month, the student that TESU flagged in their review had to have been doing something crazy! My guess is that they must have done something like completing a dozen courses in a week (or less) or completed a ton of courses in a single day. To be flagged they had to have done something statistically outside the realm of what other accelerators are listing on their transcripts.
The Shmoop debacle is also why I tend to discourage people when they suggest that students should just look up their answers or only focus on the quizzes and fail the final exam at Straighterline, even though it is allowed. If TESU got the impression that is what everyone is doing, they could sanction Straighterline as well, and we'd hate to see TESU decide to ban them too.
Either way, every person who is discovered to have earned credits without actually learning the material diminishes the value of the degrees for everyone else. It could also create the impression that TESU is a diploma mill if they allow it. I can't blame TESU for wanting to ban a provider that makes them look bad. I know this kind of thing also happens in traditional colleges, but online and nontraditional learning is under much more scrutiny... especially for those of us who use their life experience to accelerate degree completion.
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(04-25-2019, 06:09 PM)nosey561 Wrote: For your recollection, below is the email from a year ago.
https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...-temporary
"Hi [jsd],
Thanks for reaching out! We're working with Thomas Edison State University and the team at ACE to get this resolved as quickly as possible.
To give you a quick background on the issue: TESU identified a student who transferred an unusually high number of credits from Shmoop in a short amount of time, and they made the decision to pause their acceptance of Shmoop coursework while they look into the situation further. Please note that this temporary pause in accepting our courses only applies to TESU; no other institutions should be affected by this.
Rest assured, we're working closely—and quickly—with TESU to address this situation, and we hope that they will resume accepting Shmoop ACE recommended courses for transfer credit.
Once things have cleared up with TESU, we hope you'll continue to find Shmoop to be a great resource for you!
Best,
Team Shmoop"
Great, so you can replace my "day or so" and your "month" with the Shmoop statement of "a short amount of time." My point remains the exact same as this does nothing to address it. It's a weird thing to focus on instead of my actual argument. But I'll happily say "short amount of time" going forward. Hope that helps.
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(04-25-2019, 02:51 PM)nosey561 Wrote: Was it a day or was it a month? Check your sources.
Hey, slow your roll there nosey561! jsd is a fantastic contributor to this forum and has helped a lot of people here. There is no need to be rude to him. Especially when he's right.
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04-25-2019, 08:05 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2019, 08:09 PM by nosey561.)
(04-25-2019, 06:26 PM)Merlin Wrote: (04-25-2019, 03:21 PM)jsd Wrote: (04-25-2019, 02:51 PM)nosey561 Wrote: Was it a day or was it a month? Check your sources.
My recollection was a matter of days, but if you know something I don't then I don't mind being corrected. It doesn't change anything about my point.
Here is a copy of the quote from Shmoop from the original thread on what triggered the ban...
"Thanks for reaching out! We're working with Thomas Edison State University and the team at ACE to get this resolved as quickly as possible.
To give you a quick background on the issue: TESU identified a student who transferred an unusually high number of credits from Shmoop in a short amount of time, and they made the decision to pause their acceptance of Shmoop coursework while they look into the situation further. Please note that this temporary pause in accepting our courses only applies to TESU; no other institutions should be affected by this."
The implication is that someone was caught cheating and TESU instituted the ban because they no longer trusted in Shmoop's approach to academic integrity. At the time Shmoop thought the ban was temporary, but obviously, it has become permanent.
(04-25-2019, 02:51 PM)nosey561 Wrote: BTW there are plenty of posts regarding finishing a ton of courses in 1 month from Straighterline,study.com,etc,so why the focus on Shmoop?
Considering there are students who submit transcripts showing that they are able to complete 20+ credits during a month, the student that TESU flagged in their review had to have been doing something crazy! My guess is that they must have done something like completing a dozen courses in a week (or less) or completed a ton of courses in a single day. To be flagged they had to have done something statistically outside the realm of what other accelerators are listing on their transcripts.
The Shmoop debacle is also why I tend to discourage people when they suggest that students should just look up their answers or only focus on the quizzes and fail the final exam at Straighterline, even though it is allowed. If TESU got the impression that is what everyone is doing, they could sanction Straighterline as well, and we'd hate to see TESU decide to ban them too.
Either way, every person who is discovered to have earned credits without actually learning the material diminishes the value of the degrees for everyone else. It could also create the impression that TESU is a diploma mill if they allow it. I can't blame TESU for wanting to ban a provider that makes them look bad. I know this kind of thing also happens in traditional colleges, but online and nontraditional learning is under much more scrutiny... especially for those of us who use their life experience to accelerate degree completion. Thanks Merlin for your excellent points.We are lucky to have your perspective on this forum.
(04-25-2019, 07:54 PM)dfrecore Wrote: (04-25-2019, 02:51 PM)nosey561 Wrote: Was it a day or was it a month? Check your sources.
Hey, slow your roll there nosey561! jsd is a fantastic contributor to this forum and has helped a lot of people here. There is no need to be rude to him. Especially when he's right.
Thank you dfrecore and jsd. Just a disagreement- not being rude at all.
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