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ENEB Master Thread
@Kalas

Most of what you write here is demonstrably false at worst and no longer accurate at best.

Untrue, and I'll be happy to educate you on how these things work, as based on what you wrote, you don't appear to understand.

AITU is accredited in Florida, which while not meaning much academically, is something. 

You misunderstand the concept of accreditation and conflate it with the concept of approval. Those are two very different functions. Florida does not institutionally accredit colleges and universities, they only approve and license them and leave institutional accreditation up to recognized independent bodies, that is a fact.

Moreover, AITU offers religious degrees, which are not the same thing as academic degrees.

No kidding...

State accreditation is a rare honor for religious programs. 

And AITU does not have it.

Furthermore, AITU has a partnership with UNIMY, which holds MQA accreditation in Malaysia. That is the equivalent of being RA in the US. In Malaysia accreditation is permanent unless something is done to screw it up, such as churning out doctoral degrees for a degree mill. 

Irrelevant like quoting the cost of fish in Denmark to a Martian. AITU can be partnered with Oxford, doesn't change the fact it's unaccredited and using a religious angle to skate around that just like its big brother Breyer State Theology University is doing. You apparently don't know the history of these two outfits, but it's nothing good. 

Help me out folks: How many states was Breyer State University (its original name) kicked out of before they went with this religious angle? I recall them being kicked out of several states for their diploma milling before they finally figured out how to circumvent the system and stay alive. If you can remember, let me know.

Does it make sense for a legitimate university to risk losing lifetime accreditation to make a couple thousand dollars off of a dual doctorate program that could potentially appeal to dozens of people?

Irrelevant. AITU is an unaccredited diploma mill using religious exemptions to skate around that fact just like Breyer State Theology University that is run by the same people. What some school in Malaysia or Timbuktu does or doesn't do is irrelevant to the point. Other countries also have different standards, and education/accreditation boards in different countries don't always care about these murky partnerships like boards in the United States do. Look at the wealth of murky partnerships Central University of Nicaragua has had, and nothing ever happened to them. Why? Because Nicaraguan authorities don't see it as important as long as the school operates properly in Nicaragua. This is common. In other words, this happens often with foreign schools and you don't seem to be aware of it.

That said, bringing up other countries is an apples and oranges debate, you don't appear to realize that, and it's not worth having.

ENEB's internal student forum can only be accessed by actual students of ENEB. Oh, the horror. It's a good thing Columbia's online course forums can be viewed by the general public. /sarcasm

I think the issue of adding private links to a public wiki that wouldn't be able to be utilized by non-students is well-understood by reasonable people...

West Coast Bible College & Seminary is a religious school offering religious degrees and as such has no need to seek accreditation. Are you sure you understand the difference between religious and academic degrees? Because this post would suggest you do not.

What you clearly don't understand is that there is a big difference between unwonderful/bad schools and diploma mills, and legitimate schools. These schools that were listed are either garbage with bad reputations or no reputations because they're garbage, schools that anyone who has been in this space for a while knows about.

I don't care what type of school it is, a bad school is a bad school and that's the only point to be taken from it.

Selinus University does not hold any accreditations with real weight.

They don't hold real accreditation at all. WCI is an fake accreditor. Have you actually checked WCI? They claim to accredit the following schools:

Arizona State University
Auburn University
Baylor University
Binghamton University
Boston College
Boston University
Brandeis University
Brigham Young University
Brown University
California Institute of Technology (Caltech)
Carnegie Mellon University
Case Western Reserve University
City University of New York
Clark University
Clemson University
College of William & Mary
Colorado State University
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Drexel University
Duke University
Emory University
Florida State University
Fordham University
George Washington University
Georgetown University
Georgia Institute of Technology (Georgia Tech)
Georgia State University
Harvard University
Howard University
Illinois Institute of Technology
Indiana University Bloomington
Iowa State University
Johns Hopkins University
Lehigh University
Louisiana State University
Loyola University Chicago
Marquette University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)
Michigan State University
Missouri University of Science and Technology
New York University (NYU)
North Carolina State University

Princeton University
Stanford University

Source: https://www.worldcertification.org/accreditation-of-courses/accredited-organizations 

I can assure the public that WCI does not accredit any of those schools, lol. They just dumped as many prestigious school names into their database that they could think of, lol. WCI is a fake accreditor. Selinus is claiming fake accreditation. Any school claiming fake accreditation should be avoided like the plague for reasons that should be obvious. Period, end of story. 

Selinus' accreditation page is the typical overselling that mills do: they stuff the page with a ton of organizations that have no recognized accreditation authority in order to fool unsuspecting people who don't know better. I've seen this over and over again for many years.

I suppose accreditation that predates the regional accreditation system would be considered "fake" by overly pompous.

Nonsensical strawman argument, lol. That one actually made me laugh.

It is not a degree mill, according to multiple alumni.

Right, because as we know, the alumni of such outfits are never biased, nor do they have a vested interest in legitimizing their decision.

The degrees they offer are titulo propios and students have to sign a form acknowledging that prior to being admitted, rendering the concept of accreditation moot.

Yeah, I mean, signing a form definitely makes everything legitimate. Claiming accreditation from the unrecognized AAHEA certainly isn't a problem. Claiming accreditation from the WCI, another unrecognized accreditor, is no issue either. Yep, because signing a form makes everything with that all better...

People that actually attended the university have great things to say about their doctoral experience and support they received from Selinus' staff. Alumni strongly recommend it for people looking for an affordable school to pursue learning for the love of learning. It took all of about 5 seconds to find many such accounts. Here is one. https://www.reddit.com/r/PhD/comments/ik...ure_worth/

Right, because as we know, the alumni of such outfits are never biased, nor do they have a vested interest in legitimizing their decision. Plus, Reddit is always a trustworthy source for education matters.

If you're going to crap on someone's honest effort to contribute to the community in bad faith, at least have the decency to make sure you do so in a way that is factually accurate.

SIGH. 

I've been in these spaces for a very long time now. What you just did is wash, rinse, repeat. I've seen it thousands of times. This isn't about me doing anything to anyone, it's about being honest and providing accurate information which I absolutely have. You don't possess the knowledge of the education system to understand why what I said is fact and why what you said is complete nonsense. But I can assure you that any education forum worth its salt is going to have members pop up and tell you the exact same things I did.

A wiki should be about providing helpful information. Directing people to unaccredited diploma mills claiming fake and/or unrecognized accreditation—or using religious exemptions to get around accreditation—is the exact opposite of that, so hopefully people with access to the wiki will prevent bad information from staying. ENEB already has enough image issues at this point (and it's entirely their own fault). It doesn't need a wiki further hurting them, too.
[-] The following 2 users Like eLearner's post:
  • DeanLewis, jg_nuy
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(03-26-2024, 06:31 PM)eLearner Wrote: There are some issues with some of that information. The ENEB campus links can only be viewed by people who have access to ENEB's forums, and to do that you have to be a student there....

I wasn't aware that linking to sources on a protected website would be seen by some as worse than writing info using on sources at all. We have already had a ton of times in this thread where people have mistakenly written wrong info, or mistakenly thought correct info was wrong info. It would have been cleared up if there had been sources attached. The sources are also handy to keep on hand as people may come into the same thread later to comment on changes or updates etc.

I was also unaware that the Wiki must only contain info relating to acceptance at regionally accredited non-religious schools. It certainly isn't noted anywhere that that is a rule. Also, listing a school is not the same as recommending that school. I have no intentions of checking the accreditation or legal status of schools I'm not planning on attending, nor do I intend on contacting them just to clarify what a guy on the ENEB campus forums said. If one of you is willing to do that then you're welcome to though.

I can however go make a new subheading that says "Religious Schools" or something and move the relevant info to there, or just make a note saying something like "schools exempt due to religious reasons, such as x y z schools, are often willing to accept ENEB degrees in admissions". Or - as the wiki can be edited by anyone - someone else can do what they see as best.

I disagree with the idea of excluding religious schools because some people do find use (or happiness) out of having a religion-related degree - in my country anything like a theology degree is actually seen as a pretty good degree to get, and even many non-religious people get one, just because it gets you steady work!

The ENEB students reading this same info on the campus forums are getting it without any additional notes or accreditation warnings attached. Additionally, the Wiki has previously contained information which was totally unverifiable.
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Maybe add a statement like "The following list is based on the experiences of ENEB students and alumni. It is not intended as an endorsement and may contain outdated information. Prospective students should perform their own research and contact the school directly for the most up-to-date information."
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@nykorn

I wasn't aware that linking to sources on a protected website would be seen by some as worse than writing info using on sources at all. 

You're taking it as an attack. That's not how it's intended. The point I was making is that people who don't have access to the school's forum (which will likely be most people) won't be able to see it. Think about it: if you're researching something, but the information you need is behind a paywall, how will you research the information unless you pay? I don't know how common it is for links with paywalls to be used in wikis, but I would imagine it would cause quite a bit of frustration if it were common.

I was also unaware that the Wiki must only contain info relating to acceptance at regionally accredited non-religious schools. It certainly isn't noted anywhere that that is a rule. Also, listing a school is not the same as recommending that school. I have no intentions of checking the accreditation or legal status of schools I'm not planning on attending, nor do I intend on contacting them just to clarify what a guy on the ENEB campus forums said. If one of you is willing to do that then you're welcome to though.

Yeah, you're really missing the point entirely. It's not normal for wikis to list a ton of unaccredited schools and diploma mills using fake accreditation in connection to a legitimate school, so it may not be a "rule", but there's an expectation that the writer will know not to do that. I don't think you're doing anything malicious, but it's still not a helpful idea, sorry, it just isn't. And no offense, but if you're not checking into things like accreditation and such, then it's not a good idea to be adding those schools to a wiki in the first place. Those things matter too much. You don't have to recommend them, but simply listing unwonderful schools hurts the image of the school you're attaching them to. To reiterate, I don't think you're purposely doing anything malicious but it's still not a good idea.

I can however go make a new subheading that says "Religious Schools" or something and move the relevant info to there, or just make a note saying something like "schools exempt due to religious reasons, such as x y z schools, are often willing to accept ENEB degrees in admissions". Or - as the wiki can be edited by anyone - someone else can do what they see as best.

I mean, you can do whatever you please, but it's still not a good idea. I don't think you're fully grasping the point that these are crap schools, some of which have long histories of being crap schools. I understand that you're not aware of that and I think that's the central issue. But yes, they are crap schools, and people who've been around for a while know this. 

Some of those schools have been kicked out of multiple states and have found the religious angle as a way to get around the accreditation mandates that a number of states have. They didn't suddenly find God and decide to turn over a new leaf, they are simply gaming the system and it's painfully obvious. Really think about that for a moment. Do you really believe schools that have been milling for years, then picked up a religious exemption to avoid accreditation, and are using fake accreditors, are the types of schools that should even be mentioned as possible options? What credibility do they have after all of that? What would be the point of listing them knowing that information? Really, really think about that.

There are unaccredited schools, including religious ones, that have good reputations. Nations University - a religious school, was unaccredited for a while and had a good reputation. The schools listed here are not any of those schools with good reputations. That's the issue.

I disagree with the idea of excluding religious schools because some people do find use (or happiness) out of having a religion-related degree - in my country anything like a theology degree is actually seen as a pretty good degree to get, and even many non-religious people get one, just because it gets you steady work!

See the last paragraph of my previous response. Being a religious school is not the issue. Being a crap school is.

The ENEB students reading this same info on the campus forums are getting it without any additional notes or accreditation warnings attached. Additionally, the Wiki has previously contained information which was totally unverifiable.

Every wiki has that issue. But I'm sure people have done a good job of working on that, in fact you can see some parts that say "citation needed" in the ENEB wiki.
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(03-26-2024, 06:41 AM)nadaone Wrote: Does anyone know if this ENEB master course will be completely translated in English and if anyone can be enrolled in with the discount price around about $300-400..?
https://eneb.es/programas-formativos/mas...lockchain/

I emailed them about this a few months ago and they responded that they are constantly evaluating their courses but didn't mention anything concrete. 

Please email them, I hope that with sufficient interest they may consider making this course in English.

On an additional note - There has been a lot of discussion on ENEB recently. I am not remotely interested in validations and evaluations so I generally skip over that stuff.

However, I must chip in to say that for me ENEB have been really easy to deal with, have benefited me professionally and personally, have reasonably enjoyable course content and a good platform. I caveat this with the words "for the price of the courses".

This is anecdotal and perhaps specific to me but during my job search (UK based) ENEB is viewed quite similarly to how most non triple crown accredited MBA's are ( i.e similar to Herriot Watt, UofLondon and other such DL courses.
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Please do not put links to unaccredited schools or diploma mills on the wiki. Yikes! Enough people already think that getting a CBE degree fast means that schools such as UMPI are diploma mills. But UMPI is properly accredited. ENEB is "partially accredited", as of right now, by virtue of its association with Isabel. Isabel has proper accreditation in Spain and vouches for ENEB's Master programs.

I can't speak in regards to the Malaysian school, but that also sounds ungood. I would have to do more investigation, but that certainly seems at first glance like a dubious/fake association in an attempt at legitimizing a diploma mill.
In progress:
TESU - BA Computer Science; BSBA CIS; ASNSM Math & CS; ASBA

Completed:
Pierpont - AAS BOG
Sophia (so many), The Institutes (old), Study.com (5 courses)
ASU: Human Origins, Astronomy, Intro Health & Wellness, Western Civilization, Computer Appls & Info Technology, Intro Programming
Strayer: CIS175, CIS111, WRK100, MAT210
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Err, someone has deleted almost the entire list of schools from the wiki without editing the information that explains what the list to follow (now entirely deleted) is about. If you are going to edit things out, please check the section you are editing to make sure it's cohesive! And this does not fix the school list problem - someone else is just going to add in all those deleted schools back in later if you don't explain why they are not listed. I fixed that issue and inserted an explanation telling people to only add accredited schools. Also changed the title of that section to say something like "accredited schools that accept ENEB..." instead of what it had before which was just "universities" without explanation of that they needed to be accredited.
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