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New Cars Too Pricey for Many
#21
There's always the unforseen costs of certain cars as well. I won't buy an AWD because I've heard horror stories of having to replace all 4 tires if you have a problem with 1 of them. Depending on the brand, the tires have to all be the same size, so if 2 years in you have to replace 1, you have to replace them all. Yikes, not a price I want to pay.

I have a friend who has a 2005 Honda Odyssey with the PAX run-flat tire system, and she has to replace all 4 tires almost every year. Not even kidding. I told her she was insane to continue with that kind of upkeep, as I think we pay for new tires every 5 years or so. That is a HUGE expense. More than $100/mo just to keep your tire budget going. No thank you.

I like the thought of the hybrids for my kids, but with what I'm willing to pay for one, it would probably need the batteries replaced sooner rather than later, so that's a no-go.
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#22
(09-24-2018, 10:18 PM)dfrecore Wrote: There's always the unforseen costs of certain cars as well.  I won't buy an AWD because I've heard horror stories of having to replace all 4 tires if you have a problem with 1 of them.  Depending on the brand, the tires have to all be the same size, so if 2 years in you have to replace 1, you have to replace them all.  Yikes, not a price I want to pay.

I have a friend who has a 2005 Honda Odyssey with the PAX run-flat tire system, and she has to replace all 4 tires almost every year.  Not even kidding.  I told her she was insane to continue with that kind of upkeep, as I think we pay for new tires every 5 years or so.  That is a HUGE expense.  More than $100/mo just to keep your tire budget going.  No thank you.

I like the thought of the hybrids for my kids, but with what I'm willing to pay for one, it would probably need the batteries replaced sooner rather than later, so that's a no-go.

Most of my vehicles have been AWD (or 4WD) and while it is true to a degree that you should ideally replace all 4 wheels when you replace them, it isn't a requirement. As long as you rotate your tires on the proper schedule they should wear pretty evenly so when it is time to replace one, its time to replace them all anyway. If you do have to replace a tire early (due to a flat or something) the important bit is to replace the opposite tire at the same time. So if you have to replace your right rear, you should ideally replace the left rear at the same time so they rotate at the same speed, otherwise the rotational speed difference can cause undue strain on the AWD which can lead to damage over the long run.

I haven't come across the PAX run-flat system, but my old BMW came with run-flat tires, and yeah those tires are more expensive but they seemed to wear less quickly, so getting 3+ years was pretty common. This PAX thing seems terrible.

Being able to replace your tires every 5 years is pretty amazing, you must not drive much or you have really low-wear (and low-traction) tires. The average tire is closer to 2-3 years of tire wear of normal use before they need to be replaced. We managed to go 4 years in our SUV and that included one cross-country trip and I thought that was pretty good at the time.

Hybrids are a bit of a mixed bag. Yes you can get a bit more MPG out of them and they are more environmentally friendly, but you also pay a lot more for the extra equipment needed to support it (battery, electric motors, etc.) They're also a lot heavier, which can be handy if you're in a windy area but that does make them a bit less performant. The prices have come down quite a bit though and the batteries last much longer now as well. You can expect 8-10 years out of a battery easily. The issue is typically not that the battery will die outright, but they lose capacity over time, so your electric range degrades. I know someone with a 15-year-old Prius with the original battery and it still runs fine. I suspect the car has to spend a lot more time charging the battery though since it probably doesn't hold as much of a charge but it still works.

As long as you're looking at a relatively new hybrid, you shouldn't have any worries. Though with the Prius-c and a few others, you can pick up the entry-level hybrids for under $20,000 now so they are pretty economical even as a new car.
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#23
(09-24-2018, 10:18 PM)dfrecore Wrote: There's always the unforseen costs of certain cars as well.  I won't buy an AWD because I've heard horror stories of having to replace all 4 tires if you have a problem with 1 of them.  Depending on the brand, the tires have to all be the same size, so if 2 years in you have to replace 1, you have to replace them all.  Yikes, not a price I want to pay.

I have a friend who has a 2005 Honda Odyssey with the PAX run-flat tire system, and she has to replace all 4 tires almost every year.  Not even kidding.  I told her she was insane to continue with that kind of upkeep, as I think we pay for new tires every 5 years or so.  That is a HUGE expense.  More than $100/mo just to keep your tire budget going.  No thank you.

I like the thought of the hybrids for my kids, but with what I'm willing to pay for one, it would probably need the batteries replaced sooner rather than later, so that's a no-go.

We don't get much wintry precipitation here, but I had to drive through snow and freezing rain this winter. I also had to drive on rough, rural roads to get to clients' houses. In turn, I thought about getting an AWD vehicle. I'm still debating if it's worth the extra expense. I almost died when my car slid. LOL
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#24
(09-25-2018, 03:07 AM)sanantone Wrote:
(09-24-2018, 10:18 PM)dfrecore Wrote: There's always the unforseen costs of certain cars as well.  I won't buy an AWD because I've heard horror stories of having to replace all 4 tires if you have a problem with 1 of them.  Depending on the brand, the tires have to all be the same size, so if 2 years in you have to replace 1, you have to replace them all.  Yikes, not a price I want to pay.

I have a friend who has a 2005 Honda Odyssey with the PAX run-flat tire system, and she has to replace all 4 tires almost every year.  Not even kidding.  I told her she was insane to continue with that kind of upkeep, as I think we pay for new tires every 5 years or so.  That is a HUGE expense.  More than $100/mo just to keep your tire budget going.  No thank you.

I like the thought of the hybrids for my kids, but with what I'm willing to pay for one, it would probably need the batteries replaced sooner rather than later, so that's a no-go.

We don't get much wintry precipitation here, but I had to drive through snow and freezing rain this winter. I also had to drive on rough, rural roads to get to clients' houses. In turn, I thought about getting an AWD vehicle. I'm still debating if it's worth the extra expense. I almost died when my car slid. LOL

My wife insists on AWD (or 4WD) vehicles when the option is available due to the safety factor. This is particularly important if you live somewhere with inclement weather or where you get a lot of snow in the winter, though it doesn't completely replace the need for winter tires or chains in those areas. When we lived back east, we would have been stranded in the snow and unable to get to work without it. Here in California the worst we need to deal with is rain and occasional black ice, and AWD really helps for those situations as well.

Outside of bad weather, AWD doesn't add much except cost and weight. Well, unless if you take your vehicle to the track or a drag strip, which is another place AWD shines. But most folks here probably wouldn't be interested in doing that. Smile
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#25
Regarding the PAX system: You have the option just to change into regular tires.

In our aging minivan, we had this and we would end up spending $1500 bucks or something like that to replace the special tires. Once we realized that we would probably never use the special tires, we just decided to switch to regular. I would recommend that for anyone unless you are someone who drives alone a lot in remote places. Me personally, I would just call AAA if I needed a tire changed.
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#26
(09-24-2018, 11:31 PM)Merlin Wrote: Being able to replace your tires every 5 years is pretty amazing, you must not drive much or you have really low-wear (and low-traction) tires. The average tire is closer to 2-3 years of tire wear of normal use before they need to be replaced. We managed to go 4 years in our SUV and that included one cross-country trip and I thought that was pretty good at the time.



As long as you're looking at a relatively new hybrid, you shouldn't have any worries. Though with the Prius-c and a few others, you can pick up the entry-level hybrids for under $20,000 now so they are pretty economical even as a new car.

1) We buy more expensive tires with a longer warrant (60-80K I think), so we easily get 5 years out of them.

2) If you think I'm going to spend "under $20k" for a car for a 16yo, then you probably don't have a 16-yo.  We're more in the $3-$5k range, so we'd have to get a pretty old hybrid, meaning we'd have to replace the battery fairly quickly.
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#27
Have any of you ever owned an Audi or BMW? How expensive are they to maintain? I'm looking at their most reliable models, and I've found several 2018s and 2017s with low miles for less than $30k.
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#28
(10-01-2018, 03:41 AM)sanantone Wrote: Have any of you ever owned an Audi or BMW? How expensive are they to maintain? I'm looking at their most reliable models, and I've found several 2018s and 2017s with low miles for less than $30k.

I've owned several BMW's. The old ones can be problematic and expensive to maintain, but the newer ones are generally pretty low maintenance. In fact, they usually come with free maintenance. Up until 2017 they used to offer 4-year/50,000 mile free maintenance, but I believe they lowered that to 3-year/36,000 miles last year. That is in addition to the standard warranty.

The BMW maintenance program even covers brake pads, rotors, and wipers; which is pretty cool I thought. So if you're looking at a 2017 or 2018 model year, you should be covered for at least the next couple of years. If you get a CPO vehicle, I believe that adds 2-years to both warranty and free maintenance. You can also purchase an extended warranty beyond that, but it doesn't come with free maintenance.

I've heard good things about Audi, and there are a few Audi vehicles I wouldn't mind owning, but unfortunately, I can't offer any hands-on experience there.
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#29
https://www.eliomotors.com

I've been following this startup for a few years now. If they ever start production, they will have quite a value proposition:
-brand new car for under $8k
-80miles/gal
-american made
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#30
(10-01-2018, 11:13 AM)MNomadic Wrote: https://www.eliomotors.com

I've been following this startup for a few years now. If they ever start production, they will have quite a value proposition:
-brand new car for under $8k
-80miles/gal
-american made

Yeah, I've been following them as well. They look really interesting for folks in dense urban areas but a lot of people don't like their aesthetic. They remind me a lot of motorcycles with a car-like body.

They sent me a note about their cryptocurrency ICO to raise money. If that takes off they should have the funding they need to start production.
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