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One of the Worst Education Articles I've Read
#11
sanantone Wrote:The dumbest part of this article is that the author thinks that earth science has a poor ROI because you have to read a lot and put in serious time in a lab.

https://self-made.io/degrees-worst-return-investment/

OP, LOL, it wasn't that much better when they wrote about Mathematics and Engineering Technology. Like, what the heck!
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#12
If that weren't enough to ruin the author's credibility, he thinks that philosophy is a social science. 
 Weirdly enough, before starting TESU, I looked into completing my BA in philosophy I started at University of Wyoming using their distance completion program. They have philosophy as a concentration under the BA in social sciences there. Not in the on-campus program, though...just for the distance option.
W
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#13
(04-07-2019, 01:19 PM)bjcheung77 Wrote:
sanantone Wrote:The dumbest part of this article is that the author thinks that earth science has a poor ROI because you have to read a lot and put in serious time in a lab.

https://self-made.io/degrees-worst-return-investment/

OP, LOL, it wasn't that much better when they wrote about Mathematics and Engineering Technology.  Like, what the heck!

The engineering technology section was pretty bad too. The author said that engineering is only a good investment if you plan to work in academia. And, because the studies can be demanding, this could signal a bad ROI. Hahahaha!

"Therefore, the difficulty of studies and bad job opportunities turn to engineer into a bad educational investment."

(04-07-2019, 01:50 PM)Sparklette Wrote: If that weren't enough to ruin the author's credibility, he thinks that philosophy is a social science. 
 Weirdly enough, before starting TESU, I looked into completing my BA in philosophy I started at University of Wyoming using their distance completion program. They have philosophy as a concentration under the BA in social sciences there. Not in the on-campus program, though...just for the distance option.
W

Most schools wouldn't classify it as a social science; it's almost always classified as humanities. The social sciences are based on empirical studies, which is history is debatable as a social science. Philosophy is mostly logic and untested theories. But, some schools do weird things with their online programs. Excelsior has a logistics concentration within its liberal arts program, but logistics is normally offered in business schools.
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#14
Looks like exactly what it is. A biased opinion piece by an under-informed writer.

I was taken aback by this comment, in particular..."With more people in the world and more competition than ever, you have to go to college to get a good job. "

I wonder if the author researched the $1.5 trillion in student loan debt, poor graduation rates, and the millions of unfilled trade skill jobs that do not require a degree?

It did make for amusing reading and an exercise in proofreading.
Thomas Edison State University
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ASNSM - Computer Science - 2018.
Pierpont College
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#15
(04-08-2019, 12:28 PM)ChilliDawg Wrote: Looks like exactly what it is.  A biased opinion piece by an under-informed writer.

I was taken aback by this comment, in particular..."With more people in the world and more competition than ever, you have to go to college to get a good job. "

I wonder if the author researched the $1.5 trillion in student loan debt, poor graduation rates, and the millions of unfilled trade skill jobs that do not require a degree?

It did make for amusing reading and an exercise in proofreading.

You should read my thread on how for-profit and graduate schools are responsible for this increase in debt. The student loan debt crisis is mostly sensationalism. The median debt, which is a more accurate reflection of reality than average, is only $17k for undergraduate students. Even if you look at the average, which will be skewed by outliers, it's only $30k. People spend that much on a new car. If we cut out all attendees of for-profit colleges, there would be far fewer people defaulting on loans.
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DSST
Life Dev Psych 62, Fund Coun 68, Intro Comp 469, Intro Astr 56, Env & Hum 70, HTYH 456, MIS 451, Prin Sup 453, HRM 62, Bus Eth 458
ALEKS
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TEEX
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#16
(04-08-2019, 12:28 PM)ChilliDawg Wrote: I was taken aback by this comment, in particular..."With more people in the world and more competition than ever, you have to go to college to get a good job. "

Interesting...I was working in IT for almost 25 years before I got a bachelors.
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#17
I posted a thread on the other forum about how much black women were making in 2014. Overall, black women were making $34,000. Among black women with a bachelor's degree or higher, the median income was $50,000. My income has increased over $30k per year after earning a degree, and I was a supervisor prior to graduating from the then TESC. Next year, the total increase will be $43k. If I would have stayed at that job, I would be making about $13-14 per hour now.
PhD (in progress)
Masters and Graduate Certificate
AAS, AS, BA, and BS
CLEP
Intro Psych 70, US His I 64, Intro Soc 63, Intro Edu Psych 70, A&I Lit 64, Bio 68, Prin Man 69, Prin Mar 68
DSST
Life Dev Psych 62, Fund Coun 68, Intro Comp 469, Intro Astr 56, Env & Hum 70, HTYH 456, MIS 451, Prin Sup 453, HRM 62, Bus Eth 458
ALEKS
Int Alg, Coll Alg
TEEX
4 credits
TECEP
Fed Inc Tax, Sci of Nutr, Micro, Strat Man, Med Term, Pub Relations
CSU
Sys Analysis & Design, Programming, Cyber
SL
Intro to Comm, Microbio, Acc I
Uexcel
A&P
Davar
Macro, Intro to Fin, Man Acc
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#18
(04-08-2019, 01:09 PM)sanantone Wrote:
(04-08-2019, 12:28 PM)ChilliDawg Wrote: Looks like exactly what it is.  A biased opinion piece by an under-informed writer.

I was taken aback by this comment, in particular..."With more people in the world and more competition than ever, you have to go to college to get a good job. "

I wonder if the author researched the $1.5 trillion in student loan debt, poor graduation rates, and the millions of unfilled trade skill jobs that do not require a degree?

It did make for amusing reading and an exercise in proofreading.

You should read my thread on how for-profit and graduate schools are responsible for this increase in debt. The student loan debt crisis is mostly sensationalism. The median debt, which is a more accurate reflection of reality than average, is only $17k for undergraduate students. Even if you look at the average, which will be skewed by outliers, it's only $30k. People spend that much on a new car. If we cut out all attendees of for-profit colleges, there would be far fewer people defaulting on loans.
While doing my Capstone research on the Student Loan debacle, I did come across the numbers on for-profit institutions and their high default rates.  Not surprised.  I am sitting next to a guy here at work, that went with a major for-profit school, and he ended up buried in debt, and reluctant to list them on his resume'.  They certainly did not lift him from the ashes, you might say.

While I also discovered that tuition at non-profit schools is not as big of a contributor that many think it is, unfortunately, kids are borrowing their housing expenses, food, and in some cases child care.  Many for-profits will increase the tuition rate, and refund the student the difference for live on expense. In many cases, their parents are borrowing a similar amount, seperately to help subsidize them.  My in-laws are retired and trying to pay back student loans that they took out for three of their daughters.  Not including the school related expenses that they are packing on the high interest credit card.

$1.5 Trillion spread amongst 44 million students, is fairly crazy, in my opinion.  Student Loan debt totals are higher than all revolving debt totals, including ALL credit cards in the United States.  Also, student loan debt totals more than every outstanding car loan in the U.S.  SOURCE: Federal Reserve Bank

The big glaring question with student loan debt and repayment is always ROI.  Return on Investment. 

I do not necessarily PREFER a BALS, and will immediately move on to finish up a second one in a different major, but at least it checks a box for my government employer, for now.

(04-08-2019, 01:37 PM)quigongene Wrote:
(04-08-2019, 12:28 PM)ChilliDawg Wrote: I was taken aback by this comment, in particular..."With more people in the world and more competition than ever, you have to go to college to get a good job. "

Interesting...I was working in IT for almost 25 years before I got a bachelors.

I think that the both of us have talked about this before.  We have similar parallels in our career.  I have been able to work continuously in the Information Technology field since 1988 with nothing other than industry certifications.  MCSE, Network+, etc.

I started pursuing credits back in 2007, only because of an employer with tuition reimbursement.  Now, as I am starting to age (late 40's), I am getting nervous about not having a 4-year degree.  Also, I would like to pursue the CISSP and head into a CSO position.  Also, I am working for the government, and our executives are starting to require a minimum of 4-year to maintain a salaried position in I.T., and they want Grad-level to move into management.  Not surprising coming from a bunch of J.D.'s (judges).
Thomas Edison State University
B.A.L.S 2019. 
ASNSM - Computer Science - 2018.
Pierpont College
Board of Governor's AAS, AOE Information Systems - 2017
40 Credits from Stark State College(B&M), 100 ACE credits (mix of Straighterline, Study.Com, TECEP, etc.), TESU LIB-495 Capstone.
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#19
(04-08-2019, 01:37 PM)quigongene Wrote:
(04-08-2019, 12:28 PM)ChilliDawg Wrote: I was taken aback by this comment, in particular..."With more people in the world and more competition than ever, you have to go to college to get a good job. "

Interesting...I was working in IT for almost 25 years before I got a bachelors.

I've been working in software development, technology operations, and business management for about the same amount of time without a degree as well. I suspect that the author would say that we're exceptions to the rule, or that things are different now.

However, it also goes to show that the author doesn't really understand how the job market works either.

Today, finding a job is more about the quality and depth of your network and your ability to demonstrate value (using past success as an indicator of future potential). Yes, there are some jobs (like in civil service or hard sciences) that require a certain degree to even qualify to apply, but for most jobs, the degree is there to demonstrate skill when you cannot offer any job experience. So once you have actual job experience, the degree isn't really as valuable anymore.

A degree also fills the checkbox that will get your resume past ATS software (or a sourcing agent/recruiter/HR) when a job lists a degree requirement. Though if you're doing it right, you'll put your resume into the hands of the hiring manager directly or via referral, and bypass the screening folks anyway.
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#20
(04-08-2019, 02:05 PM)ChilliDawg Wrote:
(04-08-2019, 01:09 PM)sanantone Wrote:
(04-08-2019, 12:28 PM)ChilliDawg Wrote: Looks like exactly what it is.  A biased opinion piece by an under-informed writer.

I was taken aback by this comment, in particular..."With more people in the world and more competition than ever, you have to go to college to get a good job. "

I wonder if the author researched the $1.5 trillion in student loan debt, poor graduation rates, and the millions of unfilled trade skill jobs that do not require a degree?

It did make for amusing reading and an exercise in proofreading.

You should read my thread on how for-profit and graduate schools are responsible for this increase in debt. The student loan debt crisis is mostly sensationalism. The median debt, which is a more accurate reflection of reality than average, is only $17k for undergraduate students. Even if you look at the average, which will be skewed by outliers, it's only $30k. People spend that much on a new car. If we cut out all attendees of for-profit colleges, there would be far fewer people defaulting on loans.
While doing my Capstone research on the Student Loan debacle, I did come across the numbers on for-profit institutions and their high default rates.  Not surprised.  I am sitting next to a guy here at work, that went with a major for-profit school, and he ended up buried in debt, and reluctant to list them on his resume'.  They certainly did not lift him from the ashes, you might say.

While I also discovered that tuition at non-profit schools is not as big of a contributor that many think it is, unfortunately, kids are borrowing their housing expenses, food, and in some cases child care.  Many for-profits will increase the tuition rate, and refund the student the difference for live on expense. In many cases, their parents are borrowing a similar amount, seperately to help subsidize them.  My in-laws are retired and trying to pay back student loans that they took out for three of their daughters.  Not including the school related expenses that they are packing on the high interest credit card.

$1.5 Trillion spread amongst 44 million students, is fairly crazy, in my opinion.  Student Loan debt totals are higher than all revolving debt totals, including ALL credit cards in the United States.  Also, student loan debt totals more than every outstanding car loan in the U.S.  SOURCE: Federal Reserve Bank

The big glaring question with student loan debt and repayment is always ROI.  Return on Investment. 

I do not necessarily PREFER a BALS, and will immediately move on to finish up a second one in a different major, but at least it checks a box for my government employer, for now.

(04-08-2019, 01:37 PM)quigongene Wrote:
(04-08-2019, 12:28 PM)ChilliDawg Wrote: I was taken aback by this comment, in particular..."With more people in the world and more competition than ever, you have to go to college to get a good job. "

Interesting...I was working in IT for almost 25 years before I got a bachelors.

I think that the both of us have talked about this before.  We have similar parallels in our career.  I have been able to work continuously in the Information Technology field since 1988 with nothing other than industry certifications.  MCSE, Network+, etc.

I started pursuing credits back in 2007, only because of an employer with tuition reimbursement.  Now, as I am starting to age (late 40's), I am getting nervous about not having a 4-year degree.  Also, I would like to pursue the CISSP and head into a CSO position.  Also, I am working for the government, and our executives are starting to require a minimum of 4-year to maintain a salaried position in I.T., and they want Grad-level to move into management.  Not surprising coming from a bunch of J.D.'s (judges).
But, the $1.5 trillion in debt is not spread evenly. Graduate school attendees hold a disproportionate amount of that debt and so do for-profit school attendees. There are more people going to graduate and professional school, and that's helping to drive up aggregate debt. It's actually sort of rare for an undergraduate student to have more than $50k in debt.
PhD (in progress)
Masters and Graduate Certificate
AAS, AS, BA, and BS
CLEP
Intro Psych 70, US His I 64, Intro Soc 63, Intro Edu Psych 70, A&I Lit 64, Bio 68, Prin Man 69, Prin Mar 68
DSST
Life Dev Psych 62, Fund Coun 68, Intro Comp 469, Intro Astr 56, Env & Hum 70, HTYH 456, MIS 451, Prin Sup 453, HRM 62, Bus Eth 458
ALEKS
Int Alg, Coll Alg
TEEX
4 credits
TECEP
Fed Inc Tax, Sci of Nutr, Micro, Strat Man, Med Term, Pub Relations
CSU
Sys Analysis & Design, Programming, Cyber
SL
Intro to Comm, Microbio, Acc I
Uexcel
A&P
Davar
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