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Second Most Credentialed Person in Modern History
#31
(01-16-2018, 03:17 AM)dfrecore Wrote:
(01-15-2018, 04:48 PM)sanantone Wrote: I'd much rather work for an employer that uses common sense and treats its employees well. An employer would have to be clueless to deny paying for a secretary's degree after he or she has been working for the company for years just to turn around and hire someone externally for an office manager position that requires a degree. The companies that keep their employees promote from within. Since you were in human resources, you should know that many, if not most, office managers start in lower-level, administrative assistant positions.

If you want common sense: in your example, if the secretary had been at the company for years, and had shown that she could do the job of office manager, I in my role in HR would encourage the hiring manager to just promote her, without requiring a degree.  Office manager is NOT a job that should require a degree at all (and places I worked, it didn't).  The most common sense plan to me, is not to put arbitrary degree requirements on jobs, so that you don't have to pay for someone to get a degree when the job duties don't require it.

But, isn't this true for most positions? If someone is already working in an IT position, they obviously didn't need a degree to do their job. Does someone really need a degree to be an IT supervisor? Most degree requirements are arbitrary. You did your job many years ago without a degree, but how many more employers currently require HR specialists to have one?
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#32
(01-17-2018, 04:22 PM)sanantone Wrote: But, isn't this true for most positions? If someone is already working in an IT position, they obviously didn't need a degree to do their job. Does someone really need a degree to be an IT supervisor? Most degree requirements are arbitrary. You did your job many years ago without a degree, but how many more employers currently require HR specialists to have one?

Besides, it's not a given in your example that the secretary DOES have the skills to be office manager. They might not have the writing or math or business knowledge required, but school could make the difference in pushing them over the top.
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#33
(01-17-2018, 04:22 PM)sanantone Wrote:
(01-16-2018, 03:17 AM)dfrecore Wrote:
(01-15-2018, 04:48 PM)sanantone Wrote: I'd much rather work for an employer that uses common sense and treats its employees well. An employer would have to be clueless to deny paying for a secretary's degree after he or she has been working for the company for years just to turn around and hire someone externally for an office manager position that requires a degree. The companies that keep their employees promote from within. Since you were in human resources, you should know that many, if not most, office managers start in lower-level, administrative assistant positions.

If you want common sense: in your example, if the secretary had been at the company for years, and had shown that she could do the job of office manager, I in my role in HR would encourage the hiring manager to just promote her, without requiring a degree.  Office manager is NOT a job that should require a degree at all (and places I worked, it didn't).  The most common sense plan to me, is not to put arbitrary degree requirements on jobs, so that you don't have to pay for someone to get a degree when the job duties don't require it.

But, isn't this true for most positions? If someone is already working in an IT position, they obviously didn't need a degree to do their job. Does someone really need a degree to be an IT supervisor? Most degree requirements are arbitrary. You did your job many years ago without a degree, but how many more employers currently require HR specialists to have one?

Actually, many times in IT and other areas, if a person is being looked at for an internal promotion, then they don't care about a degree.  Companies will open a position, and if they are looking at an internal candidate for that position, then the hire req is just a formality, and even if they interview a couple of other people who have all of the right qualifications, they really are going through the motions, and already are arranging for the person they want to get the job.  This recently happened to my husband.  They created the opening specifically for him, the req said they wanted a degree, he doesn't have one, and wasn't even asked about it (and he works for a very large company).

So, assuming that the person has the skills, then they should be promoted without any of the degree BS.  If the person wants the job, but doesn't have the skills, then the company isn't going to wait around for the person to get their degree.

Also, many times when a company has someone they're looking at, they are grooming them for a promotion down the line, in which case they may tell the person that they should get a degree if they don't already have one.  But that would be more in the instance of a degree that's already in line with an employee is already doing (someone working in accounts payable getting an accounting degree and promoted to financial analyst for instance).  But I'm thinking that receptionist to office manager is not one of these cases.
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#34
I'll use my former employer as an example. We had pensions and 401ks. We were privately owned so no need to answer to shareholders. They promoted from within but certain positions required a degree (even the office manager position required a Bachelors as a minimum). Ironically enough, my manager didn't have one and when they made the change at Corporate they consider canning her. My boss flew to NY to save her job. Since he was way up in the company he had some clout. I moved from one sales market to another and was passed over for an office manager position because of not having a Bachelors. They hired a women who sat on eBay all day and had never done anything except "go to college". All this was 10+ years ago and based on what I know from friends at the same company, many of those perks have gone away. The business climate has changed. Every company is pretty unique. My guess is, things are not quite as generous as they used to be as education and insurance have become more expensive.
My husband is being groomed for another position right now. They've asked him to take some finance courses at a master's level (mainly to satisfy any potential accusations of favoritism). He doesn't really need more experience as he is doing the work now. But he'll be moving up from supervising one market to a national level. It makes the company look good to have more educated employees. His personal assistant has several Masters degrees but no experience.
So, I guess all that is to say, there are so many variables, it's hard to say what's normal in every market. I've been in HR and seen it all in 8 different states.
Most people don't really *need* the degrees, but depending on who your clients are, it might be necessary for appearances.
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