TESU AS Math for HS Student

[Fountains of Roses]

Hello,

I truly hope that I have executed this correctly. I very much appreciate that people love to help with degree planning.

My daughter has future plans to study pharmacy, neuroscience, or similar. However, she also enjoys math and we have been studying a way for her to earn an Associates in Math. I have pasted TESU AS in Math requirements in the doc below and added the courses she has already completed (15 credits Brick and Motor, 9 SDC and others in progress..) 

I have inserted a few questions within the doc -most notably concerns about whether a certain order must be followed for Math courses.  

Can you please take a look and see if we are on the right track and possibly clear up any of the questions?

Thank you very much!

[rachel83az]

Your PDF cuts off after area C so I don't know what's below that and can't help there. However, Sophia can fullfill 99% of the things you need, including the "understanding the physical & natural world" that you currently have as being in-progress at SDC. Save SDC for the math requirements. Sophia is cheaper and often easier than SDC. Just eat up all those Sophia credits, except the Foundations courses and College Readiness.

Keep in mind, though, that you'll still have to pay the $3k residency waiver for an ASNSM if the minimum for residency (16 credits) are not met at TESU. Since the associate and a bachelor's both require the cornerstone SOS-110, this makes an associate's only marginally less expensive than a bachelor's. Perhaps a BA in psychology might be a good fit for her and she can get the math degree when she graduates with the BA so that she's only paying the one fee.

However, TESU also has age restrictions so that a HS student can't earn a degree anyway. In order to even apply to TESU, you must be at least 18 years of age AND have 24 RA credits (I don't think SDC/etc. credits count here) or 20 years old if you don't have those credits. You say she's got 15 RA credits, meaning 9 more are needed. You can fill in the remaining credits with the local B&M university and/or Tel Learning but, again, at this point, I think it would make the most sense financially to just go straight for a BA and pick up the ASNSM Math along the way. Even a BALS could be worthwhile to have while she goes for her passion degree in pharmacy/neuroscience/whatever. 

If y'all are dead-set on an associate's degree, Charter Oak would probably be a better choice because it's slightly cheaper and has lower age restrictions. They do not, unfortunately, have a math degree but she could at least have a degree.

[Fountains of Roses]

Corrected PDF!
Thank you!

---

Your PDF cuts off after area C so I don't know what's below that and can't help there. However, Sophia can fullfill 99% of the things you need, including the "understanding the physical & natural world" that you currently have as being in-progress at SDC. Save SDC for the math requirements. Sophia is cheaper and often easier than SDC. Just eat up all those Sophia credits, except the Foundations courses and College Readiness.

Keep in mind, though, that you'll still have to pay the $3k residency waiver for an ASNSM if the minimum for residency (16 credits) are not met at TESU. Since the associate and a bachelor's both require the cornerstone SOS-110, this makes an associate's only marginally less expensive than a bachelor's. Perhaps a BA in psychology might be a good fit for her and she can get the math degree when she graduates with the BA so that she's only paying the one fee.

However, TESU also has age restrictions so that a HS student can't earn a degree anyway. In order to even apply to TESU, you must be at least 18 years of age AND have 24 RA credits (I don't think SDC/etc. credits count here) or 20 years old if you don't have those credits. You say she's got 15 RA credits, meaning 9 more are needed. You can fill in the remaining credits with the local B&M university and/or Tel Learning but, again, at this point, I think it would make the most sense financially to just go straight for a BA and pick up the ASNSM Math along the way. Even a BALS could be worthwhile to have while she goes for her passion degree in pharmacy/neuroscience/whatever. 

If y'all are dead-set on an associate's degree, Charter Oak would probably be a better choice because it's slightly cheaper and has lower age restrictions. They do not, unfortunately, have a math degree but she could at least have a degree. 

Thank you so much for such a thorough response when the document wasn't even correct! I have reposted the pdf. 
I have never heard of the age restrictions and thankful for bringing this this to my attention. --just when I think I have things understood except for my known questions it gets very complicated again.
[quote pid='318854' dateline='1601176493']
She has 15 Brick and Motor (and 9 SDC), but from what I tried to gather in other threads, it seemed that TESU required the residency waiver if the 24 wasn't from them. Can you clarify this and do you possibly know the answer to my question about whether there is a required order to the math classes?  

She will try to do as much as she can on Sophia and I appreciate the cost concerns greatly. if just going for the AS, it appears that Sophia doesn't have much other than the Ethics, Sociology, and some math. She is already working on Psych at SDC because she currently has it paired with Bio/Lab. If she does a BS she could earn more electives through Sophia, but it was a little confusing trying to determine which courses could be General electives vs just 
"Electives".  

Also, I don't see the "Capstone" on the Associates. This does get much pricier than possible though. We had hoped she could do the AS to sort of "seal" in her  general electives. As you point out, I am not sure this is possible due to the age requirement and what she will be doing down the line through Dual Enrollment...(pondering whether it makes sense/ is possible to do the BS, but still pursue another degree..)


[/quote]

---

Corrected PDF!
Thank you!

---

Your PDF cuts off after area C so I don't know what's below that and can't help there. However, Sophia can fullfill 99% of the things you need, including the "understanding the physical & natural world" that you currently have as being in-progress at SDC. Save SDC for the math requirements. Sophia is cheaper and often easier than SDC. Just eat up all those Sophia credits, except the Foundations courses and College Readiness.

Keep in mind, though, that you'll still have to pay the $3k residency waiver for an ASNSM if the minimum for residency (16 credits) are not met at TESU. Since the associate and a bachelor's both require the cornerstone SOS-110, this makes an associate's only marginally less expensive than a bachelor's. Perhaps a BA in psychology might be a good fit for her and she can get the math degree when she graduates with the BA so that she's only paying the one fee.

However, TESU also has age restrictions so that a HS student can't earn a degree anyway. In order to even apply to TESU, you must be at least 18 years of age AND have 24 RA credits (I don't think SDC/etc. credits count here) or 20 years old if you don't have those credits. You say she's got 15 RA credits, meaning 9 more are needed. You can fill in the remaining credits with the local B&M university and/or Tel Learning but, again, at this point, I think it would make the most sense financially to just go straight for a BA and pick up the ASNSM Math along the way. Even a BALS could be worthwhile to have while she goes for her passion degree in pharmacy/neuroscience/whatever. 

If y'all are dead-set on an associate's degree, Charter Oak would probably be a better choice because it's slightly cheaper and has lower age restrictions. They do not, unfortunately, have a math degree but she could at least have a degree. 

Thank you so much for such a thorough response when the document wasn't even correct! I have reposted the pdf. 
I have never heard of the age restrictions and thankful for bringing this this to my attention. --just when I think I have things understood except for my known questions it gets very complicated again.
[quote pid='318854' dateline='1601176493']
She has 15 Brick and Motor (and 9 SDC), but from what I tried to gather in other threads, it seemed that TESU required the residency waiver if the 24 wasn't from them. Can you clarify this and do you possibly know the answer to my question about whether there is a required order to the math classes?  

She will try to do as much as she can on Sophia and I appreciate the cost concerns greatly. if just going for the AS, it appears that Sophia doesn't have much other than the Ethics, Sociology, and some math. She is already working on Psych at SDC because she currently has it paired with Bio/Lab. If she does a BS she could earn more electives through Sophia, but it was a little confusing trying to determine which courses could be General electives vs just 
"Electives".  

Also, I don't see the "Capstone" on the Associates. (EDIT: I see- there is no Capstone, but the Info course is called Capstone. Sorry.)
This does get much pricier than possible though. We had hoped she could do the AS to sort of "seal" in her  general electives. As you point out, I am not sure this is possible due to the age requirement and what she will be doing down the line through Dual Enrollment...(pondering whether it makes sense/ is possible to do the BS, but still pursue another degree..)

[/quote]

[P226mem]

Here is the info on the age for admissions at TESU. https://www.tesu.edu/admissions/undergrad-admissions

[Fountains of Roses]

Here is the info on the age for admissions at TESU.  https://www.tesu.edu/admissions/undergrad-admissions

Yes, it looks like we have to look into Excelsior or Charter Oak. I just wish I knew prior! This has taken so much time!
 Do you know of a thread that details the fees that Online students would be charged by the 2 of these?
Thank you.

[rachel83az]

The residency waiver is required if you don't have 16 hours taken directly from TESU itself ( https://www.tesu.edu/tuition/fees ). 

InstantCert would have American Government for $20 + proctoring fee.

There is no required order for the math classes except for those classes that require a prerequisite of some sort. Then, obviously, the prerequisite must be taken first.

Sophia has algebra & stats, sociology, ethics, multiple sciences. If you decide to go for a TESU bachelor's, most of Sophia's classes can be used either as electives OR GE electives. (see attachments)

Someone here said that SDC's discrete math is really difficult; harder than it ought to be. Because of this, I would instead recommend different math electives. As a suggestion for a HS student:

Quantitative math: CSM learn ($40.)
E. Mathematics: Sophia Algebra
II. AOS math: 

• Calculus I (you have CLEP)
  
• Sophia Stats
  
• B&M Trig (this will probably transfer in as precalculus)
  
• SDC Intro to Geometry
  
• SDC Math 101 College algebra - This will NOT overlap with Sophia algebra. Sophia transfers in as MAT-121 while SDC Math 101 is MAT-115
  

Coopersmith also has a few math courses. 

To be eligible for a TESU degree as soon as she turns 18 and graduates HS, I would suggest the following courses from TEL Learning:

• Algebra instead of Sophia algebra
  
• American Government instead of InstantCert's American government
  
• Chem I w/ lab instead of SDC's Chem I. 
  

These 10 RA credits would bring her up to 25 RA credits and allow her to get a TESU degree. 

TESU does not have a capstone for the associate's, this is true. But they do have the cornerstone (SOS-110). If you are not residents of NJ, this means that the minimum you'll pay for an associate's would be $1557 (cornerstone) + $3192 (residency waiver) = $4749. A bachelor's would be $1557 (cornerstone) + $1557 (capstone) + $3192 (residency waiver) = $6306. Only slightly more for a degree that will be worth much more in the long run. A BALS certainly trumps a math associate degree. 

Having an associate's degree doesn't necessarily "seal in" anything. Not all schools will do a block transfer of such a degree. This depends on the school she attends and what sort of policies they have. Instead, they'll most likely insist on transferring in courses individually based on her transcript(s). $5k is a lot of money to spend on something that has a good chance of not working the way you're hoping it would. A BALS or some other bachelor's degree (whether from TESU or from somewhere else) is more likely (though still not guaranteed) to be accepted in a block of sorts - and such a degree would have value on its own, unlike an associate's which (unfortunately) isn't worth all that much on its own these days. 

Many institutions have policies that only around 30 AOS credits must be earned at that institution beyond the credits earned for the last bachelor's degree. Does she already have a school picked out for her dream degree? Check out their policies for 2nd/subsequent degrees. 

Using Sophia + 2 SDC courses and the old The Institutes course puts me at 80 credits out of 120 for a BALS (see attachment). I would be at 86 but I have not finished Public Speaking nor English Comp II. Your daughter would be even closer since she's finished those + the B&M courses. Given that your daughter is interested in neuroscience or pharmacology, she could take Nutrition & Health and Intro to Public Health at OnlineDegree.com as 2 of her general electives. ( https://www.onlinedegree.com/wp-content/...apping.pdf ) Their BG101 also does not overlap with SDC's BIO-101 so she might enjoy that as well. 

I've also included my current eval towards a ASNSM Math. Again, I have not finished English Comp II at Sophia. 

If Psychology sounds like a better option, I can do a Sophia eval for that; just let me know.

Is your daughter a sophomore or a junior in HS right now? Either way, being able to immediately get a bachelor's degree upon graduating HS would be quite impressive to potential future employers.

[P226mem]

Here is the info on the age for admissions at TESU.  https://www.tesu.edu/admissions/undergrad-admissions

Yes, it looks like we have to look into Excelsior or Charter Oak. I just wish I knew prior! This has taken so much time!
 Do you know of a thread that details the fees that Online students would be charged by the 2 of these?
Thank you.

Here is a link to Charter Oak's website where you can scroll through and find the fees and such https://www.charteroak.edu/catalog/curre...t-fees.php


I think this part of Excelsior's website has undergraduate fees https://www.excelsior.edu/costs-and-fina...rgraduate/

please check both websites for admissions requirements, etc.

I'm still trying to understand what you mean by "seal in".  And trying to understand the goal of an associates while in high school in this case since she thinks she wants to get a bachelors in other fields.   There's no guarantee the university for the 4 year degree will accept the credits from SDC and sophia just because COSC or other awarded credit for those with or without degree.

[rachel83az]

I'm still trying to understand what you mean by "seal in".  And trying to understand the goal of an associates while in high school in this case since she thinks she wants to get a bachelors in other fields.   There's no guarantee the university for the 4 year degree will accept the credits from SDC and sophia just because COSC or other awarded credit for those with or without degree.

It used to be common (and it's still not entirely uncommon) for a uni to accept an associate's degree as a block credit transfer. Even if GE requirements changed slightly in the future, those courses would still count because they were already part of a degree.

It still happens these days but it's usually state-specific, AFAIK. For instance, all unis in California might accept all CC associate degrees as a block credit transfer (I am not sure that they do, this is just a possibility). However, it's less common for schools located in different states to accept such a block credit transfer, especially when the two schools are both universities. The exception seems to be for students who possess a bachelor's degree. The GE requirements are usually (but not always) waived for students getting an additional bachelor's degree.

[P226mem]

ah. that's what person meant. got it. thanks.

[Fountains of Roses]

Here is the info on the age for admissions at TESU.  https://www.tesu.edu/admissions/undergrad-admissions

Yes, it looks like we have to look into Excelsior or Charter Oak. I just wish I knew prior! This has taken so much time!
 Do you know of a thread that details the fees that Online students would be charged by the 2 of these?
Thank you.

Here is a link to Charter Oak's website where you can scroll through and find the fees and such https://www.charteroak.edu/catalog/curre...t-fees.php


I think this part of Excelsior's website has undergraduate fees https://www.excelsior.edu/costs-and-fina...rgraduate/

please check both websites for admissions requirements, etc.

I'm still trying to understand what you mean by "seal in".  And trying to understand the goal of an associates while in high school in this case since she thinks she wants to get a bachelors in other fields.   There's no guarantee the university for the 4 year degree will accept the credits from SDC and sophia just because COSC or other awarded credit for those with or without degree.

SO kind of you to put the effort into understanding my "seal in". I see from the responses below ti was clarified for me. Thank you !

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I'm still trying to understand what you mean by "seal in".  And trying to understand the goal of an associates while in high school in this case since she thinks she wants to get a bachelors in other fields.   There's no guarantee the university for the 4 year degree will accept the credits from SDC and sophia just because COSC or other awarded credit for those with or without degree.

It used to be common (and it's still not entirely uncommon) for a uni to accept an associate's degree as a block credit transfer. Even if GE requirements changed slightly in the future, those courses would still count because they were already part of a degree.

It still happens these days but it's usually state-specific, AFAIK. For instance, all unis in California might accept all CC associate degrees as a block credit transfer (I am not sure that they do, this is just a possibility). However, it's less common for schools located in different states to accept such a block credit transfer, especially when the two schools are both universities. The exception seems to be for students who possess a bachelor's degree. The GE requirements are usually (but not always) waived for students getting an additional bachelor's degree.

Yes, I was noticing this yesterday. One of possible "future" schools does a block transfer and requires a few additional Christian core courses. The other states that GEs are met only if state matched Associates. I am heavily considering the two BS option! It seems that this will provide the gen ed assurance. I am very concerned about taking too many SOPHIA/SDC/CLEP as one of the schools restricts credit by exam to 32 credits and I am not understanding or getting an answer from the Uni 
as to whether SOPHIA and SDC fall under that Credit by Exam category.