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The Great Debate - Free College For All
#11
FREE AS and BS from public universities may flood them.  FREE = little value!   Cali public university students can't get classes now to graduate in 4-years.   

Small private liberal arts colleges will go the way of the dodo bird. Rolleyes 

Ivy league may get more prestigious as the wealthy will want the branding even more.  Better yet, Ivy League getting out of the undergrad business and become the elite Higher-Higher Education (Masters, Executive Education, Ph.D., only) schools as the BS becomes the HS diploma.
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#12
Well, if anyone read the CBO's report yesterday, all of this "free" (taxpayer funded) stuff is going to go the way of the dodo bird anyway, as they're going to have to stop most programs, welfare, everything, and raise taxes, to pay for all of the "free" stuff we've given away in the past.  

"In 2019, the debt held by the public is projected to amount to 78 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product, compared with 35 percent in 2007. That number is set to increase to 92 percent by the end of next decade, as well as 144 percent by 2049, the report says."

So the point is moot.
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#13
(06-26-2019, 06:40 PM)dfrecore Wrote: Well, if anyone read the CBO's report yesterday, all of this "free" (taxpayer funded) stuff is going to go the way of the dodo bird anyway, as they're going to have to stop most programs, welfare, everything, and raise taxes, to pay for all of the "free" stuff we've given away in the past.  

"In 2019, the debt held by the public is projected to amount to 78 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product, compared with 35 percent in 2007. That number is set to increase to 92 percent by the end of next decade, as well as 144 percent by 2049, the report says."

So the point is moot.

Yes, it makes no sense that our deficit is growing while the economy is doing well. This usually happens during recessions and depressions when taxes are cut and spending goes up to stimulate the economy. The most recent tax cut did very little to improve an already health economy, and it increased our deficit. If Congress doesn't let the tax cuts expire (which they probably won't because it'd be politically unpopular), then that 144% number will increase to 219%!
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#14
(06-26-2019, 07:15 PM)sanantone Wrote:
(06-26-2019, 06:40 PM)dfrecore Wrote: Well, if anyone read the CBO's report yesterday, all of this "free" (taxpayer funded) stuff is going to go the way of the dodo bird anyway, as they're going to have to stop most programs, welfare, everything, and raise taxes, to pay for all of the "free" stuff we've given away in the past.  

"In 2019, the debt held by the public is projected to amount to 78 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product, compared with 35 percent in 2007. That number is set to increase to 92 percent by the end of next decade, as well as 144 percent by 2049, the report says."

So the point is moot.

Yes, it makes no sense that our deficit is growing while the economy is doing well. This usually happens during recessions and depressions when taxes are cut and spending goes up to stimulate the economy. The most recent tax cut did very little to improve an already health economy, and it increased our deficit. If Congress doesn't let the tax cuts expire (which they probably won't because it'd be politically unpopular), then that 144% number will increase to 219%!

Everyone, even liberals, should be fiscal conservatives when it comes to spending.  If money is wasted on stupid stuff, and if we spend more than we take in, there's no money for the things that YOU think are important.  We can't help the downtrodden when we're drowning in debt, it's just a fact.
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#15
(06-26-2019, 07:49 PM)dfrecore Wrote:
(06-26-2019, 07:15 PM)sanantone Wrote:
(06-26-2019, 06:40 PM)dfrecore Wrote: Well, if anyone read the CBO's report yesterday, all of this "free" (taxpayer funded) stuff is going to go the way of the dodo bird anyway, as they're going to have to stop most programs, welfare, everything, and raise taxes, to pay for all of the "free" stuff we've given away in the past.  

"In 2019, the debt held by the public is projected to amount to 78 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product, compared with 35 percent in 2007. That number is set to increase to 92 percent by the end of next decade, as well as 144 percent by 2049, the report says."

So the point is moot.

Yes, it makes no sense that our deficit is growing while the economy is doing well. This usually happens during recessions and depressions when taxes are cut and spending goes up to stimulate the economy. The most recent tax cut did very little to improve an already health economy, and it increased our deficit. If Congress doesn't let the tax cuts expire (which they probably won't because it'd be politically unpopular), then that 144% number will increase to 219%!

Everyone, even liberals, should be fiscal conservatives when it comes to spending.  If money is wasted on stupid stuff, and if we spend more than we take in, there's no money for the things that YOU think are important.  We can't help the downtrodden when we're drowning in debt, it's just a fact.

I'm all for cutting wasteful military spending with the exception of the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard is the most important branch for homeland security and intercepting drugs, but they receive the least funding. Not too long ago, the current administration wanted to cut their funding even further. With the other branches, defense contractors are gouging taxpayers. At the state level, a lot of money could be saved by reducing the prison industrial complex and ending tax breaks for multi-billion dollar companies. State tax breaks are the reason why Netflix and Amazon paid $0 in taxes last year.
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#16
I am completely for cutting wasteful spending and I'm fairly liberal. I'm still not sure how education falls into that category. I don't really think that it should be free, but I do think it should be doable by someone who's willing to work their way through school and with the rising costs, that just isn't always the case depending on what you want to study.

Honestly, I would be happy to just go with a solid economic study that determines what our best interest is as a nation. China and India are catching up to us. Call me patriotic, but I'd like to keep enough education to keep our innovation going and I don't think that the old school "high school drop out makes it big" ideals will always work in a modern world driven by STEM products.

At the end of the day, all of us here do believe in some form of cheap education or we would not have arrived at this forum.
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#17
(06-27-2019, 08:38 AM)burbuja0512 Wrote: Call me patriotic, but I'd like to keep enough education to keep our innovation going and I don't think that the old school "high school drop out makes it big" ideals will always work in a modern world driven by STEM products.

It doesn't work because most of the Americans who drop out of high school do so because they come from unstable environments. They don't have the resources or knowledge to start and successfully run a business. We all know what the stats show. High school dropouts in the U.S. do poorly. When I was looking at the list of most successful dropouts, all but one of the modern ones were not from the U.S. Two out of three of the high school dropouts from the U.S. lived during the early 1900s. The one modern one got rich off of stealing music and violating copyright laws. 

It is possible to save a million dollars by the time you retire, but that's nothing special. A million dollars doesn't go very far these days, and it will be worth even less a few decades from now. One million dollars gives you $50k per year to live off of for 20 years or $33,333 per year to live off of for 30 years.
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#18
(06-27-2019, 06:02 PM)sanantone Wrote:
(06-27-2019, 08:38 AM)burbuja0512 Wrote: Call me patriotic, but I'd like to keep enough education to keep our innovation going and I don't think that the old school "high school drop out makes it big" ideals will always work in a modern world driven by STEM products.

It doesn't work because most of the Americans who drop out of high school do so because they come from unstable environments. 

I am not sure about that.  New Mexico has the highest drop-out rate and weird Oregon the second highest drop out rate.  I think culture is huge.
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#19
(06-27-2019, 06:02 PM)sanantone Wrote: It is possible to save a million dollars by the time you retire, but that's nothing special. A million dollars doesn't go very far these days, and it will be worth even less a few decades from now. One million dollars gives you $50k per year to live off of for 20 years or $33,333 per year to live off of for 30 years.

Off the original info here, but this is not correct.  The S&P has averaged 10% over the last 100 years (and I've made more than that for the last 20 years on average).  Even if you were only earning 5% and pulling out 5% ($50k), you'll still never touch the principal.   If you have $1M in the stock market making somewhere in the 10-12% range annually, and pulling out 8% ($80k), you'll never run out of money and have a pretty good income.  The only way your scenario happens is if you don't have that money invested in ANYTHING, just sitting in a coffee can buried in your backyard.
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#20
(06-27-2019, 07:22 PM)Life Long Learning Wrote:
(06-27-2019, 06:02 PM)sanantone Wrote:
(06-27-2019, 08:38 AM)burbuja0512 Wrote: Call me patriotic, but I'd like to keep enough education to keep our innovation going and I don't think that the old school "high school drop out makes it big" ideals will always work in a modern world driven by STEM products.

It doesn't work because most of the Americans who drop out of high school do so because they come from unstable environments. 

I am not sure about that.  New Mexico has the highest drop-out rate and weird Oregon the second highest drop out rate.  I think culture is huge.

New Mexico is one of the poorest states with a high percentage of Native Americans. Native Americans have high rates of suicide, alcoholism, poverty, and domestic violence.

(06-27-2019, 09:32 PM)dfrecore Wrote:
(06-27-2019, 06:02 PM)sanantone Wrote: It is possible to save a million dollars by the time you retire, but that's nothing special. A million dollars doesn't go very far these days, and it will be worth even less a few decades from now. One million dollars gives you $50k per year to live off of for 20 years or $33,333 per year to live off of for 30 years.

Off the original info here, but this is not correct.  The S&P has averaged 10% over the last 100 years (and I've made more than that for the last 20 years on average).  Even if you were only earning 5% and pulling out 5% ($50k), you'll still never touch the principal.   If you have $1M in the stock market making somewhere in the 10-12% range annually, and pulling out 8% ($80k), you'll never run out of money and have a pretty good income.  The only way your scenario happens is if you don't have that money invested in ANYTHING, just sitting in a coffee can buried in your backyard.

That's right if you continue to invest. Of course, one should invest conservatively while in retirement. 
Many retirements were delayed during the last recession because people lost upwards of 40% of their retirement 401ks.
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