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The Rise of Colleges without Classes or Professors
#1
Article: The Rise of Colleges without Classes or Professors 

https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/th...09829.html
Thomas Edison State University (TESU) 
- BSBA General Management, December 2018
- ASNSM in Computer Science, December 2018
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#2
One thing that stood out for me towards the end of the article - the professor who says “You don’t need to just master a set of skills or a small body of knowledge,” he said. “You need to explore, think … get shaken, have a conversation … struggle. And those things take time. They take relationships. They take actually being in an environment where those are the most valuable things.”

He's assuming that all of this can only be learned in a traditional classroom, with a teacher and other students. Ummm...not sure if he noticed, but plenty of people do this in real life, every day. We all have conversations, relationships, struggle in regular everyday life, at work and at home. You do NOT need a traditional education to grow as a person. As a matter of fact, I think that the way many classes are taught these days, students don't explore, think, get shaken, or struggle. Instead, the professor tells them what to think, they agree, and the only person struggling is someone who doesn't agree - but they learn to keep their mouth shut so they don't jeopardize their grade (I know a kid who goes to Berkeley right now who says this is how he gets through as a conservative).

You don't need to pay many thousands of dollars, and possibly go deeply in debt, the get "the college experience." You can live life, work, have relationships with people, all for free, as a "life experience."
TESU BSBA in HR, 2018
WVNCC BOG AAS,
 2017
GGU Cert in Management, 2000

EXAMS: TECEP Tech Writg, Engl Comp 2, LA Math, Public Rel, Computers  DSST Computers, Pers Fin  CLEP Mgmt, Mktg
COURSES: TESU Capstone  Study.com Pers Fin, Microecon, Stats  Ed4Credit Acct 2  PF Fin Mgmt  ALEKS Int Alg, Coll Alg  Sophia Proj Mgmt The Institutes - Ins Ethics  Kaplan PLA
B&M COURSESPalomar CollMission Coll, Golden Gate Univ, San Jose State Univ
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#3
I remember back in 2008, before I knew about this forum and before I actually knew how far the alternative credit rabbit hole went, I found a College Board CLEP poster in my first B&M advisor’s office Up until then, I thought to “CLEP” a course meant to score high enough on the ACT to not have to take introductory courses in math and English. Like a school challenge exam or something. I also knew about AP, but knew I missed the boat with that by not graduating high school. I found the list of courses you could CLEP out of and I was like a kid in a candy store. That school only accepted 30 CLEP credits, but that was plenty enough for me, and I was hooked. I took my first exam, US History 1, in early November. I then took two CLEPS in one day, five days later, US History 2 and Freshman College Comp.

I remember bringing that third passing score sheet, the second that day, to my advisor so she could add the course to my degree plan. She was a little hunched older woman and she looked up at me with wide eyes and asked me in a very quiet and serious tone, “Are you going to test out of your whole degree?” She wasn’t encouraging or proud of my scholastic achievement, she was concerned. Maybe even a little frightened for me that I was missing out on some fundamental facet of life. Like I was that kid at school on water balloon fun day that was proud he hadn’t gotten wet. In her eyes I was missing the point of college.

I read a lot of that same fear and concern in that article. It’s a lot of educators fearful of the changing times. They are worried they are being made redundant, useless, in this new modern landscape. The only crutch they have to lean on, the last and greatest reason one could ever want to educate themselves, is the personal touch of a professor led classroom. Well, that’s all well and good, but in my time in B&M institutions I have encountered more uncaring, unmotivated, and absentee professors than I have the life changing variety.

I’m not trying to demonize butt-in-seat classes, but there is a lot that goes along with them that is unecessary. That fact wouldn’t bother me so much if the whole crazy thing weren’t so damn expensive. If I’m going to be paying you thousands of dollars then I expect you to deliver your product in the most efficient manner possible. That’s just economics 101. I don’t want to stand on tradition when all I need is to check a box for employers.

There are still subjects that can benefit greatly from having classroom discussions and I don’t want those to go away. But these competency based programs are delivering subject that lend themselves well to the format: Business, CS, etc. I might feel more weird if they had English, Fine Arts, or Philosophy degrees available, but they don’t.

We say we want to raise the next generation of innovative change leaders, but how can that even happen if we are too hung up on tradition to change the ways that we are delivering their education to them?
Pierpont Community and Technical College - BOG AAS (12/2018)
FEMA - PDS Certificate (04/30/2014)
G.E.D. (11/16/2004)

NEXT:
Charter Oak State College - BA, Individualized Studies or English
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#4
Here's an article that has a more positive outlook on online education, even sharing statistics substantiating the efficacy of programs like WGU:

https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.or...to-best%2F

I think the moral of the story is that there is value to many forms of education. A fresh out of high school person might find more value with CC or University. A driven highschool student might find more value with supplementing their HS education with online, DE or AP courses. A busy adult may find more value in a flexible self paced online program. Neither method is inherently better or worse than another because it comes down to what's the best fit for an individual.
TESU BS NEET (in progress)
B&M(22cr): Anat/Phys 1/2 +Labs, Eng Comp 1, Sust. Cities, Orientation Courses, Intro Hlth+Well, Functional Anat/Kin
TESU(4cr): Chem 1 Lab, DC circuits
JST/TESU Eval of NAVY Training: 85/99cr
The Institutes, TEEX, NFA(9cr): Ethics, Cyber 101/201/301, Safety
Sophia(2cr): Dev Eff Teams, Fdn College Alg, Fdn Stats, Ess Mng Conflict, Fdn English comp
Study.com(22cr): Eng 105, Fin 102, His 108, Lib Sci 101, Math 104, Stat 101
CLEP(9cr): Intro Sociology 63 Intro Psych 61 US GOV 71
OD(6cr): Robotics, Cyber
CSM(3cr)
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#5
(03-05-2019, 11:49 PM)MNomadic Wrote: Here's an article that has a more positive outlook on online education, even sharing statistics substantiating the efficacy of programs like WGU:

https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.or...to-best%2F

I think the moral of the story is that there is value to many forms of education. A fresh out of high school person might find more value with CC or University. A driven highschool student might find more value with supplementing their HS education with online, DE or AP courses. A busy adult may find more value in a flexible self paced online program. Neither method is inherently better or worse than another because it comes down to what's the best fit for an individual.
I know I’m biased, and there is truth in what you say. It does come down to what’s the best fit for the individual. It is still very frustrating to see these educators unwilling to accept change. They are placing arbitrary roadblocks in the students’ paths instead of helping to integrate methods of course delivery that are more beneficial to some students or areas of study. I mean, the accurate transmission and retention of knowledge is supposed to be our primary concern as teachers and students, right?
Pierpont Community and Technical College - BOG AAS (12/2018)
FEMA - PDS Certificate (04/30/2014)
G.E.D. (11/16/2004)

NEXT:
Charter Oak State College - BA, Individualized Studies or English
Reply
#6
(03-05-2019, 11:49 PM)MNomadic Wrote: I think the moral of the story is that there is value to many forms of education. A fresh out of high school person might find more value with CC or University. A driven highschool student might find more value with supplementing their HS education with online, DE or AP courses. A busy adult may find more value in a flexible self paced online program. Neither method is inherently better or worse than another because it comes down to what's the best fit for an individual.

I completely agree.  As an adult returning to get my degree 20+ years later, I found zero value sitting in a classroom with a bunch of 20yo's and some teacher spouting on about his/her views that I was never going to agree with.  Alternative credit was the perfect fit for me.

My 11th grader will probably get a lot out of CC, as she really needs more time to mature and experience life and all of that.  The 2-3 years after high school will probably be huge for her, and college is 1 aspect of that.

My 9th grader is planning out his life AFTER college, so school is just a means to an end for him.  He expects to enjoy those 4 years, but is very forward thinking (10, 20, 30 years out).  He is taking a bunch of AP so he can test out of a lot of college material, and then either have more space in his 4 college years for a minor, the ability to take fewer units, or he can throw in some fun electives (he's looking at ROTC, so no early graduation for him).

My husband is considering an IT degree at WGU.  He has 20 years of experience, so wants to get through everything as quickly as possible.

All this to say that just in my small family of 4, we will utilize ALL the forms of university learning, with each of us finding the best fit.  There is no one-size-fits-all, nor would we want there to be.
TESU BSBA in HR, 2018
WVNCC BOG AAS,
 2017
GGU Cert in Management, 2000

EXAMS: TECEP Tech Writg, Engl Comp 2, LA Math, Public Rel, Computers  DSST Computers, Pers Fin  CLEP Mgmt, Mktg
COURSES: TESU Capstone  Study.com Pers Fin, Microecon, Stats  Ed4Credit Acct 2  PF Fin Mgmt  ALEKS Int Alg, Coll Alg  Sophia Proj Mgmt The Institutes - Ins Ethics  Kaplan PLA
B&M COURSESPalomar CollMission Coll, Golden Gate Univ, San Jose State Univ
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