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What is going on?! I feel for this guy!
#11
If you’re attacking someone specifically because you think they are an immigrant (legal or not), it is a crime. If she just passed the guy on the street and said the same remark, you and I are in agreement (and so is the law) — no crime, just rude. If that comment can be proven as motivation for the attack, then the law does see it differently. Motivation matters, which is why we have other laws around motivation (such as the distinction of premeditated murder).
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#12
(07-10-2018, 01:04 PM)cookderosa Wrote:
(07-10-2018, 11:35 AM)sanantone Wrote: I hope she's charged with a hate crime.

forget that- this isn't snowflake politics, she needs to be charged with attempted murder!

There's no need to be throwing around the word "snowflake." It's never intended to be civil, and it's usually used out of ignorance. 

There seems to be a misunderstanding here of what it means to be charged with a hate crime. There are different levels of hate crimes based on the level of violence involved. A hate crime can also increase the penalty for a particular crime, and it allows the federal government to become involved. A person could get 10-20 years for a murder, but if it's enhanced by a hate crime charge, the person could get life or the death penalty. 

The main reason why Dylann Roof got the death penalty for the church shooting is because he committed a hate crime.

(07-10-2018, 06:49 PM)cookderosa Wrote: my understanding is that the burden of proof on a hate crime is hard to prove, it's not worth getting this thrown out just to make a political statement. If the woman doing the hitting said "go back to Mexico" and this man was actually FROM Mexico, in my opinion, she didn't say anything wrong.  Attempted murder is cut and dry - assuming they can find these people, which they haven't yet been able to do.

National origin is a protected class. You can't attack someone because of their national origin. It doesn't matter if he's truly from Mexico or not. She thought he was from Mexico and mentioned it during the commission of her crime, so that's grounds for the prosecution to look into hate crime charges. As JSD said, juries can agree to convict on individual charges.

Attempted murder would actually be the hardest charge to prove in this. With a federal hate crime assault charge, she could get 10 years. If the prosecution is smart, they'll seek attempted murder and assault charges because, if the jury finds the defendant not guilty on the attempted murder charge, they can still find her guilty of aggravated assault.
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#13
One of the reasons why Democrats are all centered in cities and college towns is because there is a culture of hate in many small towns and rural areas that forces anyone who is different away from the small towns and rural areas. We have a train of people in trucks who drive in a parade with Confederate flags on poles on the truckbeds every month here. The message is that black people are not wanted. Most people would rather avoid conflict, so no black people move to the area. Many of the towns in our area have billboards right next to the town/village limit sign that are purchased by local churches. They say things like "Jesus Died for Our Sins". This might be true, but if it's a big billboard right next to the city limits sign, non-Christians will get the idea and not move there. When my wife and I were looking to rent, one of the landlords refused to take us to the Mexican side of town because he didn't want to show us - Flemish/Czech/Bohemian ancestry - the "trash' neighborhoods on the other side of town.

Gerrymandering only works in this country because racism has driven people who are different away from racist places. Telling someone who looks Mexican to go back to Mexico is racist and it makes many areas of the country off-limits to people who have Mexican ancestry. This is why the system can then skew towards racist candidates like President Trump. It is part of the rot present in the country right now. In addition to being completely wrong, it is also a very un-Christian thing to say. There is no place for it.
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#14
(07-11-2018, 10:50 AM)eriehiker Wrote: One of the reasons why Democrats are all centered in cities and college towns is because there is a culture of hate in many small towns and rural areas that forces anyone who is different away from the small towns and rural areas. We have a train of people in trucks who drive in a parade with Confederate flags on poles on the truckbeds every month here. The message is that black people are not wanted. Most people would rather avoid conflict, so no black people move to the area. Many of the towns in our area have billboards right next to the town/village limit sign that are purchased by local churches. They say things like "Jesus Died for Our Sins". This might be true, but if it's a big billboard right next to the city limits sign, non-Christians will get the idea and not move there. When my wife and I were looking to rent, one of the landlords refused to take us to the Mexican side of town because he didn't want to show us - Flemish/Czech/Bohemian ancestry - the "trash' neighborhoods on the other side of town.

Gerrymandering only works in this country because racism has driven people who are different away from racist places. Telling someone who looks Mexican to go back to Mexico is racist and it makes many areas of the country off-limits to people who have Mexican ancestry. This is why the system can then skew towards racist candidates like President Trump. It is part of the rot present in the country right now. In addition to being completely wrong, it is also a very un-Christian thing to say. There is no place for it.


A few things to comment regarding your post:

1) Just because someone SAYS they are a Christian doesn’t mean they genuinely are one. People can say ANYTHING they want about themselves but their actions (or lack of) will ultimately justify who they really are. Btw - also understand that Christians are not perfect and if you meet one saying they are perfect or sinless then they are greatly confused. Are Christians redeemed/forgiven by Christ’ blood, yes, but not perfect or sinless. Only one was sinless and perfect - that being Jesus Christ. Just wanted to clear up that misconception.

2) Lastly, I didn’t vote for Barack Obama nor did I appreciate his policies or how he led the country. Regardless, I had RESPECT for the office that he held. I never called him a racist even though his close associations with Rev Wright and his church would make a strong case for that. The point being - please don’t demean the office of the president by calling him a racist - that has and will never do any good at all.
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#15
I don't use the term lightly. I just watch what is going on and President Trump is clearly a racist.
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#16
(07-11-2018, 11:33 AM)eriehiker Wrote: I don't use the term lightly. I just watch what is going on and President Trump is clearly a racist.


If someone was a racist though, do you think they would want to help or hire any of those races they supposedly hate or dislike? Have you ever seen the variety of people who Trump hires? If your ever in NYC, check out Trump Tower to see all his racially diverse workers he has (many in high positions as well).

Either way, let’s keep this civil and we will agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with differing views.

Enjoy your Wednesday!
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#17
"1) Just because someone SAYS they are a Christian doesn’t mean they genuinely are one.  People can say ANYTHING they want about themselves but their actions (or lack of) will ultimately justify who they really are.   Btw - also understand that Christians are not perfect and if you meet one saying they are perfect or sinless then they are greatly confused.   Are Christians redeemed/forgiven by Christ’ blood, yes, but not perfect or sinless.  Only one was sinless and perfect - that being Jesus Christ.  Just wanted to clear up that misconception."

This is clearly the case.  In fact, I'm not sure that I've met anyone who has claimed to be perfect.

We are just in a very interesting time period right now.  Some experts have called it the "big sort."  Many people have argued that it just happens that people move to neighborhoods and cities that they want to live in.  There is, of course, truth to this.  However, if people are actually looking, they will realize that it is not just personal choice involved.  There are very many extremely closed-minded people who force people out of communities.  This might be happening in cities and college towns the other way around.  I just don't live in a city or college town, so I don't know about that.

(07-11-2018, 11:39 AM)acamp Wrote:
(07-11-2018, 11:33 AM)eriehiker Wrote: I don't use the term lightly.  I just watch what is going on and President Trump is clearly a racist.


If someone was a racist though, do you think they would want to help or hire any of those races they supposedly hate or dislike?  Have you ever seen the variety of people who Trump hires?  If your ever in NYC, check out Trump Tower to see all his racially diverse workers he has (many in high positions as well).  

Either way, let’s keep this civil and we will agree to disagree.   Nothing wrong with differing views.  

Enjoy your Wednesday!

I do think that a racist person would be willing to hire disliked races.  I think that President Trump would hire any worker who is cheap and he can control.  We have seen almost zero desire on his part to create a racially diverse administration.
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#18
(07-11-2018, 10:50 AM)eriehiker Wrote: One of the reasons why Democrats are all centered in cities and college towns is because there is a culture of hate in many small towns and rural areas that forces anyone who is different away from the small towns and rural areas.  We have a train of people in trucks who drive in a parade with Confederate flags on poles on the truckbeds every month here.  The message is that black people are not wanted.  Most people would rather avoid conflict, so no black people move to the area.  Many of the towns in our area have billboards right next to the town/village limit sign that are purchased by local churches.  They say things like "Jesus Died for Our Sins".  This might be true, but if it's a big billboard right next to the city limits sign, non-Christians will get the idea and not move there.  When my wife and I were looking to rent, one of the landlords refused to take us to the Mexican side of town because he didn't want to show us - Flemish/Czech/Bohemian ancestry - the "trash' neighborhoods on the other side of town.

Gerrymandering only works in this country because racism has driven people who are different away from racist places.  Telling someone who looks Mexican to go back to Mexico is racist and it makes many areas of the country off-limits to people who have Mexican ancestry.  This is why the system can then skew towards racist candidates like President Trump.  It is part of the rot present in the country right now.  In addition to being completely wrong, it is also a very un-Christian thing to say.  There is no place for it.

Um ... she wasn't wearing a MAGA hat. I don't believe any of the other 4 assailants were either. To your point about small towns and a culture of hate ... this happened in Los Angeles ... a large town well known for being politically Democrat. I don't think the President has much sway there so I'm struggling to see how they took their queues from him. I also don't think she would have put her brick down if the President had a cabinet more to your liking.
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#19
(07-11-2018, 12:26 PM)Sapientes Wrote: Um ... she wasn't wearing a MAGA hat. I don't believe any of the other 4 assailants were either. To your point about small towns and a culture of hate ... this happened in Los Angeles ... a large town well known for being politically Democrat. I don't think the President has much sway there so I'm struggling to see how they took their queues from him. I also don't think she would have put her brick down if the President had a cabinet more to your liking.

Agreed!  This is LA, a FAIRLY large town...my son was just telling me it's population is greater than 22 states.  And I'm not sure if you've heard, but it's a pretty blue voting district.  So I don't think "racist Trump" is the issue here.
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#20
(07-11-2018, 12:26 PM)Sapientes Wrote:
(07-11-2018, 10:50 AM)eriehiker Wrote: One of the reasons why Democrats are all centered in cities and college towns is because there is a culture of hate in many small towns and rural areas that forces anyone who is different away from the small towns and rural areas.  We have a train of people in trucks who drive in a parade with Confederate flags on poles on the truckbeds every month here.  The message is that black people are not wanted.  Most people would rather avoid conflict, so no black people move to the area.  Many of the towns in our area have billboards right next to the town/village limit sign that are purchased by local churches.  They say things like "Jesus Died for Our Sins".  This might be true, but if it's a big billboard right next to the city limits sign, non-Christians will get the idea and not move there.  When my wife and I were looking to rent, one of the landlords refused to take us to the Mexican side of town because he didn't want to show us - Flemish/Czech/Bohemian ancestry - the "trash' neighborhoods on the other side of town.

Gerrymandering only works in this country because racism has driven people who are different away from racist places.  Telling someone who looks Mexican to go back to Mexico is racist and it makes many areas of the country off-limits to people who have Mexican ancestry.  This is why the system can then skew towards racist candidates like President Trump.  It is part of the rot present in the country right now.  In addition to being completely wrong, it is also a very un-Christian thing to say.  There is no place for it.

Um ... she wasn't wearing a MAGA hat. I don't believe any of the other 4 assailants were either. To your point about small towns and a culture of hate ... this happened in Los Angeles ... a large town well known for being politically Democrat. I don't think the President has much sway there so I'm struggling to see how they took their queues from him. I also don't think she would have put her brick down if the President had a cabinet more to your liking.

This is a good point.
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