Why Charter Oak State College is better than Thomas Edison State College

[KittenMittens]

Just because you feel it could have been cut down doesn't make it stupid, someone else may need more time in the classroom. SOME people LEARN better by taking classes, SOME people do need all that 'stupid' stuff, SOME people prefer other ways of learning, and SOME people already have years of experience and can test out easily etc etc etc. Just because you think homework, discussions, quizzes etc are 'stupid' doesn't make it so. SOME people actually prefer to learn that way, and enjoy doing those things.

If you want to learn in class then by all means do it. The program is for people who don’t want to do that, and who want to complete a degree the quickest, and easiest way possible. If you don’t want to do it, then don’t do it. I speak for a lot of people who believe that doing hws, discussions, quizzes, and spending hundreds to thousands is a waste of time for many of our goals. If you don’t agree, then you can always do more coursework. Many/all of the degree programs that students have created on degreewikia have been designed for testing out. That's because people have an interest in completing credits cheaply, quickly, and effortlessly.

You know why most traditional respectable universities don't generally accept credit for upper level coursework? Because a 3 credit examination by UExcel is no where near the same levels of intensity, breadth, depth, and rigor of a typical course. If it did, more established universities would be accepting them. If you really believe that you want a fully immersive education, then stop what you're doing - don't do any TEEXs, StraighterLines, ALEKS, etc. because they are watered down versions of real college courses. Yes, StraighterLine is no substitute for a traditional college course.

I won't comment about why people did or didn't get an education, or why they are getting one now. Everyone has different reasons and it's best not to try and lump them all together in a huge assumption, it just doesn't work. I certainly don't fit into your assumptions..but I guess that makes me dishonest right.

Most people go to college to secure a job and get more money. People like you are really the exception to the rule (but then again, why is it that you are doing all the quickest/easiest ways possible for obtaining college credit? Your opinion doesn't really match with your experience… But to each his/her own.

Who said anything about traditional college. People here are helping each other get an education. It's not a way to get around the system, people are offering options and ways to go about getting an education.

You are questioning ALEKS having no proctors yet praising MOOCs?

Honesty, integrity - I have no need to cheat the ALEKS system, thanks.

Why do you need a rubber stamp saying you learned something? If you really care about learning, you don’t need a golden sticker saying you did it. ANd there's nothing wrong about "hacking a college degree." Testing out of a degree is exactly getting around the system and there's nothing wrong with that, and you are doing the same thing too. You keep on saying that people are here to "seek an education" but completing a few SL, ALEKs, and credit exams is not my definition or most colleges definition of an "education." But perhaps your and my definition of "education" are completely different. Agree to disagree then.

MOOCs are nice that you can learn skills, or learn things at your leisure and for free, with some indicating you’ve completed the course through an honor certificate. In the case of MOOCs, I praise them because they’re for the sake of learning, not to show someone that you got something. You don’t generally get college credit for them. In the case of ALEKS, it is a way for students to bypass proctors, and get college credit for free/cheap. And just because you don't need to cheat the ALEKS system, doesn't mean it isn't an issue. If we went solely on the honor system, then we should just give credit to people because they said so. There's a certain standard for getting college credit, and only a very few colleges do accept ALEKS for good reason. Your reasoning is moot.

You are assuming that everyone has access to financial aid, many people don't have any financial aid in this world.

I assume you’re in America. Education in the rest of the world is generally far cheaper than it is in the US (it's not so accessible in Africa, but that's besides the point). If you’re in the US, and your income or your parents is low enough, you qualify for federal loans which are low interest, PELL Grants, state grants, scholarships, employee assistance, etc. Where there's a will there's a way. It’s that simple.

There are full courses available for free for some TECEPs, there are books available and suggested readings for each test, there are many videos all over the net, there are many websites to learn the material for free.

Why do you keep insisting on trying to knock this OPTION for people.

For the type of student this program is geared for, the one who wants to complete a degree quickly, easily, and conveniently as possible, this is who it’s for. TECEPs are harder because you have to read a textbook (which isn’t a good way to learn as it is). TECEPs take questions out of a textbook - which isn’t exactly showing you’re learning much. It is inefficient and time consuming to read a textbook for most students who are interested in getting a degree quickly/effortlessly.

This program is not for you if your main concern is about “getting an education.” But if you want a regionally accredited degree with the least amount of time put into, the program is an attractive option. Not everyone thinks or believes that the best way to learn is through college, in a classroom, or by getting credit through an exam like DSST, CLEP, or UExcel. Don’t force your views that the point of getting a degree is for the “sake of learning.” Many, and I would say most of us, are seeking to get a college degree for career purposes - and there's nothing wrong with that In fact, this is why so many people who never attended college 20 years ago are doing so now because of the modern demands of the job market requiring a college degree for the most basic job duties. I'd make the argument that if people who never completed a college degree in the first place 20-30 years ago didn't do so because they weren't particularly as serious about college (there are extenuating circumstances and exceptions of course). In a way, the bachelor’s degree has become the new high school degree for the fact that so many more people have it today, and its intrinsic value has gone down a bit as employers just don't view them in the same light they did 20+ years ago.

In any case, the MOOC model, and tech "boot camps" (which is like an apprenticeship where you learn a vocational skill for a few weeks) are showing how backwards the college model is in learning, and developing useful skills for the job market. Most people are interested in securing a good job, with good pay and education for the sake of education is a secondary or tertiary concern when spending thousands of dollars to tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands for a degree. Yes, is learning important? Of course, where I'm from, we treat books with utmust respect, but learning is =/= education as Mark Twain said. The college model has been a bloated, flawed, and expensive model for learning useful/job skills, and if you're not like the average American who has financial concerns, then you're not typical person for this program.

You have taken 'I can not do FEMA or Clep tests' as meaning I can't handle them, interesting. Try thinking of some other reasons why those things might not be available to a number of members that visit this forum.

Maybe you should express yourself more clearly then particularly when you state very explicitly, “I cannot do FEMA or CLEP Tests." I’m not a mind reader. FEMAs are one of the easiest ways people can get credit as are CLEPs compared to the other exams like DSST, UExcel, or TECEP. Perhaps you’re not interested in doing them, and that’s what you could have said instead.

I believe I’ve addressed your points in my two posts now, despite the overly harsh criticism, so I won't be commenting on any of these issues any further. If the program doesn't suit your goals, then nobody's putting a gun to your head to do it.

Take care.

[lavagirl]

I bet for the amount of time KittenMittens spent for doing exercises in unnecessary writing about how TECEPs are bad ( though he never took one ), he could read a textbook and pass TECEP with an A.

[KittenMittens]

I bet for the amount of time KittenMittens spent for doing exercises in unnecessary writing about how TECEPs are bad ( though he never took one ), he could read a textbook and pass TECEP with an A.

I am also sure that your time spent on the forum could be better spent contributing in some form or fashion rather than mindlessly writing nonsense And I enjoy blogging, writing, and contributing in general and you could say it's a hobby. I'd say so far, the quality of the responses on this discussion board have been very emotional, hackneyed, and lethargic. Perhaps the typical forum user here has trouble learning, or some other problem that elicits their own self-insecurities.

I'm sure I could pass a TECEP with an A - but it'd be a waste of time for me given that there are faster and more efficient methods for getting credit rapidly. TECEP would simply be slower. It's my goal to impart some advice and knowledge to anyone the program may be helpful for which I'm sure it will. I don't particularly care how a small subset of viewers/frequent posters may not like my ideas for feeling insulted or offended considering there is also a substantial selection bias here (small sample size that isn't reflective of the entire population). Sometimes ideas are controversial, sometimes they're not; sometimes opinions challenge the status quo, sometimes they don't - but meaningful debate and dialogue is a common way for achieving progress and advances. I don't expect to win any favors telling people my method may be more effective than their own, and it's not really my incentive to tell people they are wrong, just my personal opinions and experiences on some major pitfalls with other people's advice. I felt that that information was missing particularly for people who were in a similar situation as my own, and now that information is out there so that others can reason out if my reasoning makes sense. This naturally offended and angered some frequent posters here i.e. Sanantone who's painstakingly gone out of her way to nitpick any point as possible (and also why this thread blew up).

In particular, it's not that people look down on my ideas, but more so that they judged my beliefs from a short, hastily written topic title. So far, I haven't really been swayed by anyone's major arguments i.e. you can do TECEPs because even though they've got a reputation for being more cumbersome and harder, you can do it or you shouldn't be doing a degree for getting a degree but for "learning."

In any case, if you don't like what's being written, you don't need to express your personal opinion/feelings of me. Appeal to emotion is not the best way to prove a point unless you're pandering to the lowest common denominator of people. Otherwise, you're encouraged to write a meaningful and productive response with the hopes of meaningful dialogue if you'd like

[lavagirl]

Unlike you, I actually gave meaningful information for the forum members. I point out which TECEPs were easy and advantages of passing them through ProctorU. Your writing is just argument for the sake of argument. It is obvious for everybody but you.

[KittenMittens]

Unlike you, I actually gave meaningful information for the forum members. I point out which TECEPs were easy and advantages of passing them through ProctorU. Your writing is just argument for the sake of argument. It is obvious for everybody but you.

I can't take you or your response seriously when you fail to address the other aspects of the TECEPs you speak of. You took a TECEP in a 100 level college math exam and an introductory/basic "college applications" exam - these are exceptions to the "rule." Those are not the types of TECEPs that are representative of them as a whole. If you read even an iota of what I wrote, the TECEPs I'm talking about basically require one to read a textbook from cover to cover. I didn't realize I'd need to spell everything out to every little detail, but like Sanantone you're just arguing over trivial details. The general idea with the majority of TECEPs is that you have to read a textbook from cover to cover. Clearly with a entry level math course, there are far less concepts, and ideas tested - you either know basic math or you don't. In a knowledge and memory based exam, which is what most of the TECEPs are like, you can't get away with it unless you're a real scholar in the field (which none of us are).

Try doing the TECEP in Finance, Accounting, Strategic Management, Federal Income Taxation, Network Technology, Music History II, or any other upper level exam and see how likely you are to pass it "without studying." You haven't made a strong argument at all. To do the "per credit" plan as Sanantone recommends, you'd need to do another 6 TECEPs (which you never did), and good luck finding another 6 TECEPs that are straightforward and don't require you to read a textbook. Also, a student will likely want to take TECEPs that fulfill degree requirements under the per credit plan to minimize costs.

Now, feel free to respond to any of these points if you wish. If you don't understand a point I've made, you're welcome to reread any of the previous posts in this multiple post page; my answer will likely be in one of them.

As far as your opinion on whose arguing and not, I'd say that you, and the frequent users here some of which are on here each and every day with thousands of posts are not my intended audience. I frankly don't care what some forum "regulars" think, so far, the majority of arguments have lacked any substance besides vitriol (and when there's harsh feedback it usually means you're hitting a sensitive spot) - because they're typically very biased, and entrenched "in their ways" and have a vested interested in "proving they are right" whether it be for their perceived reputation from anonymous strangers, or for some other pathological reason.

Best of luck to you.

[lavagirl]

Another 6 easy TECEPs :

POS-101-TE Introduction to Political Science
POS-282-TE *Introduction to Comparative Politics ( Saylor align)
SOC-210-TE Marriage and the Family
PSY-270-TE Psychology of Women
COM-210-TE Public Relations Thought & Practice
JOU-110-TE Introduction to News Reporting

Everybody can pick something easy from the list
Thomas Edison State College: All TECEPÂ Tests

Nice thing that it is possible to see sample questions in each TECEP discription, so the person can take mock test and see the difficulty of the test.

The upper credits can be taken from Penn Foster or other online schools. This will make TESC degree cheep if you choose per credit plan. Simple, isn't it? Doesn't take 15 pages of writing.

[KittenMittens]

Another 6 easy TECEPs :

POS-101-TE Introduction to Political Science
POS-282-TE *Introduction to Comparative Politics ( Saylor alighn)
SOC-210-TE Marriage and the Family
PSY-270-TE Psychology of Women
COM-210-TE Public Relations Thought & Practice
JOU-110-TE Introduction to News Reporting

Everybody can pick something easy from the list
Thomas Edison State College: All TECEPÂ Tests

Nice thing that it is possible to see sample questions in each TECEP discription, so the person can take mock test and see the difficulty of the test.

The upper credits can be taken from Penn Foster or other online schools. This will make TESC degree cheep if you choose per credit plan. Simple, isn't it? Doesn't take 15 pages of writing.

And what proof do you have that someone will pass them without reading a textbook? You don't. Have you even taken any of those? Refer to the previous posts where several members have indicated TECEPs being much slower or harder to do than the other materials. Furthermore, even if a student ends up taking those 8 exams, they still won't fulfill major upper level requirements for a TESC degree [which has 30 or so credits upper level that you need to take i.e. 300 level or above] meaning you'll still have to take more exams thus driving the price of the degree even more - it is tedious and redundant. Please keep in mind it's not only about difficulty, it's about ease and convenience, and also not having to go through a textbook as well which takes time. Anyone who's taken ample coursework knows that textbooks are no fun to use compared to review guides - and if you can't acknowledge that then this conversation with you is not worth having. I'm not going to argue whether or not a textbook is better to use than a review guide, because that's one of the presumptions I do make and the ideal student I envision would believe that as well. It's fine if you don't agree, and you're certainly welcome to believe that reading 1000 page textbooks are a better way to prepare for an exam than a 20 page review guide through InstantCert

Nice thing with UExcels are that there are InstantCert flash cards, practice exams, and ample student feedback to gauge what will be on the exam. You don't get that with TECEP. With a TECEP, the subject may be easy i.e. "psychology of women" but because they take questions out of a textbook (usually a very specific edition at that), you really need to read the textbook to pass, and thus more risk involved and uncertainty involved. That also ends up becoming more expensive when you have to purchase books rather than just getting instantcert membership, reading some student feedback, and doing some practice questions.

Refer to post 119 and post 125: I'll repost some snippets of what at least 10 people have said about TECEPs. That's a lot of powerful user feedback where people are expressing their beliefs that TECEPs are the most difficult exams to complete compared to all the other options available. Absence of Instantcert.com material for TECEPs (other than 3 exams which students in the forum have said were not sufficient to pass) and the dearth of student feedback on the forums about these TECEPs show that as well. TECEPs are just not that popular.

"Pattie writes: “I would concur with Wendy. TECEPs are, in my opinion, the most difficult tests out there. And, keep in mind, that they take all forms...some are all MC, some are all essay, some are short answer and essay, and yet others are a combination of MC, short answer and essay.”"

Malle writes: “I have taken both and Tecep's are harder because they are based on a specific edition of a book. Ex" thanology Death and Dying- I used 9th edition for TECEP in Feb. Only to find out that test was based on 8th edition. Which reflected 911 and prior to 2001 not the 9th edition which is 2002 to 2006 or 7. Those iffy questions made the difference. Where as a Clep is more based on solid information not changing beliefs due to updated editions. I hope I'm clarifying the difference for you TECEP's are harder you must memorize the exact wording in the text to pass the test, becuase all answers may be very close depending on what text used for studying. I also took Abnormal Psy TECEP and used the recommened text and several others. That test proved to be more based on solid information. Alcohol Fundamental Facts TECEP is strictly based on a text and do make absolutely sure you have the right text. (which was out of print when I took the test) They explained to me that TECEP Alcohol fundamental Facts really should change it's title to Alcohol in society. When taking a test with the assumption that Fundamental Facts simply do not change and the test is not based on current stats found by from some book and no one was sure what editon. Take a Clep or if a TECEP ask about each test. Someone here can help.”

Publius states: “My thoughts exactly. Throw ECE's in there with TECEPs as harder as well.”

zenurez states: “There appear to be a LOT of study resources out there for CLEP's and DSST and I really like the flashcard system. TECEP's seem less known, harder and will likely require more books and only have four flashcard courses so far on instantcert

ali4nia states: “TECEP is not cheaper and is harder to pass ! usually you gotta have 60% right to get it done vs ECE with 45-50% correct answer you usually pass with a C,

Kiwi Lover (a moderator) states: “I am currently attempting to study for the TECEP Operations Management exam. After taking numerous DANTES and CLEP exams (and using IC for my main study materials), I am finding it a LOT harder studying for this TECEP exam. It has slowed me down considerably having to learn this subject by reading an entire book and then creating my own study notes. [B]I felt like I was going 70 mph using IC for the other exams and have now slowed down to a 10 mph crawl studying for this TECEP without IC[/B]. One thing is for sure...if I had had to do this for all of my other exams and not had the benefit of IC, I would not be nearly as far along in the pursuit of my degree.”

If you're even going to debate me - you're going to need to compare apples with apples - the UExcel exams I mentioned are seen as upper level coursework - at least find TECEPs that are equivalent in upper level/fulfill major degree requirements and are relatively straightforward to pass with moderate/minor effort. I bet you can't. There is also a sort of consensus that these UExcel exams are doable (UExcel Human Resource Management, Organizational Behavior, and Labor Relations have A LOT of overlap with each other for instance, can be passed from studying for a few hours/days/couple of weeks. There is abundant information through the instantcert forums about that and student-driven data as well. As they say information is power, and student feedback is an incredibly powerful tool.

Sorry, but you just don't really know what you're talking about. Do a little more research on this topic, and you'll understand my rationale more fully. Your arguments are primarily coming from a place of misdirected anger and emotion. It's not my goal to proselytize, but to convince my intended audience of the merits of avoiding TECEPs in favor of other exams like UExcels which then logically entails going through COSC instead. I know it may come off as a little abrasive, but I certainly expect some resistance, vitriol, even racism/sexism, for more or less challenging the status quo. Sure a student can work their butt off to save what I see is a paltry $2000, but there are far easier ways to complete a degree than dissecting and analyzing textbooks through 6-8 TECEP exams which is what this plan is about. You pay a little more for convenience, and if you want to save a couple grand, then more power to you. I would wager, however, that most people will not/are not going for the "per credit" TECEP option for a reason because they will be unable to successfully complete 8 TECEP exams without burning out. There are exceptions like Sanantone, but not everyone spends all their time on degreeforum either, or has 5000 posts on the subject showing that they are deeply committed to the endeavor as she is. This isn't an attack on her or a rebuke, I am actually stating that what she is doing is commendable, just that most people would not be able or willing to go through the troubles of.

In any case, I don't just provide my opinion, I provide evidence for it as well - strong evidence at that i.e. student feedback.

[defscarlett]

Try doing the TECEP in Finance, Accounting, Strategic Management, Federal Income Taxation, Network Technology, Music History II, or any other upper level exam and see how likely you are to pass it "without studying." You haven't made a strong argument at all. To do the "per credit" plan as Sanantone recommends, you'd need to do another 6 TECEPs (which you never did), and good luck finding another 6 TECEPs that are straightforward and don't require you to read a textbook. Also, a student will likely want to take TECEPs that fulfill degree requirements under the per credit plan to minimize costs.

I don't know about anyone else, but I did pass the Network Technology TECEP cold, I could also probably due the same for Music History II, with nothing more than a SHORT review. I can do that because those are my knowledge strengths. If you put me in front of the TECEP or DSST in Finance I would probably cry like a little baby, because accounting/finance is very foreign to me and frankly I just don't get it. Out of all the CLEP/DSST's that I have taken, I have not taken one starting from scratch, meaning knowing nothing about the topic, I have taken them in areas that I have a strong knowledge base in to begin with and use other means to fill in knowledge gaps. While I do use IC and maintain a subscription, it is not my primary means of studying for these exams either, I choose to use other study methods first before I get into the flashcards. If it's a course that I wasn't comfortable in and still needed to take the course I went through Straighterline, where guess what, I read the entire textbook for every single class that I took through them, and it still took me less than a week to complete each course. I made these choices because this is what works for me INDIVIDUALLY. Other people make different choices because it's what works for them, INDIVIDUALLY. Every single person that comes to this forum is unique, we all have various sources of credit that we are trying to fit into the degree requirements of an institution. Each institution is so different in what it accepts and where it gets put in an academic plan, that not one is the best one every time, for every person. Some people who come on this forum, go with the one of the big three schools, others like myself go to one of the slightly more strict, but fairly flexible instituions like APUS, there are others who attend normal B&M's that are just trying to fill that one last gen ed requirement with a CLEP. We also all have different motivators for getting a degree and limitations of what sources of credit we can utilize (international students not being able to taken FEMA's, not having a CLEP/DSST testing center near you etc etc etc). Take me for instance, my motivator is to get a degree for career advancement, however I also want to get an EDUCATION that will help me in the future, I don't just want to take a course and not get anything out of it, which is why I decided to increase the length of time that I was in school for a year, even though I was only about 15 credits from getting a HSEP degree from TESC. I am limited on the time to take CLEP/DSST exams due to work and family schedules, however ProctorU is available 24/7 which makes TECEPs much more appealing to ME than having to use my vacation time from work to go test. I have already started to reap the benefits of the education that I have achieved so far, and will continue to do so long into the future.

[defscarlett]

Sorry, but you just don't really know what you're talking about. Do a little more research on this topic, and you'll understand my rationale more fully. Your arguments are primarily coming from a place of misdirected anger and emotion. It's not my goal to proselytize, but to convince my intended audience of the merits of avoiding TECEPs in favor of other exams like UExcels which then logically entails going through COSC instead. .

How does taking a UExcel logically entail going through COSC, if anything it "logically entails" you to go to Excelsior...


The Big 3 aren't the only colleges that accept UExcels.
Excelsior College | Who Accepts UExcel Credits?

[cookderosa]

Ah Cookderosa, you were one of the people who felt that TECEPs were too hard. What were your thoughts about them, did you take any more TECEPS and would you have preferred to take any other institution's exams instead if you could? My central argument is that TECEPs are too tedious for the fact that you have to read a textbook, that there are no review materials, no practice exams, no student feedback, etc. They're generally poorly supported and many have people have agreed on that point as well.

You had stated, “I only took 1 TECEP as a student, but took a year's worth of classes. I wouldn't take another TECEP and I wouldn't get excited about the option. I found TECEP to be much harder than CLEP and much harder than my classes. Mine (Nutrition) was text-book specific and written by a 2nd grader. Okay, maybe not, but it was awful. I remember one question was "what is the most popular sandwich in America" and most questions were short answer / fill in the blank that you wouldn't know without the text.”

I would urge anyone who wants to complete a degree under the path of least resistance to steer clear of these exams for the reasons you mentioned above.

My point is that defining the "path of least resistance" depends on the individual's needs. People here typically want cheap, fast, and/or easy. You can't say 1 path is best for everyone, because if you want cheapest, then your path is ABC. If you want fastest, your path is DEF. If you want easiest, your path is GHI. Within each path, some schools serve better than others.

Telling people why YOU chose COSC is a great thread. Telling everyone what THEY should do is a little obnoxious.

P.S. I passed my TECEP, and my comments from back then are still true for me today.