Why are we still in Afghanistan?

[CLEP101]

Just wanted to ask the forum to see what you guys think.
I've been here for almost a year and I'm still trying to comprehend why we are still here. What is our purpose here? I see no progress whatsoever. The Afghan Government is still, if not more, corrupt as ever (kinda reminds me of ours). It is only functioning because we are here, and what do you think will happen once we leave? I'm not seeing results of where all the money we are pumping into this country is going. The Afghan people hate us, they will turn on us on a dime. I call our Afghan counterparts, the sleeper Insurgents. The only progress I see is the stuff we build for them after we have first bombed the hell out of it. If the youth start adopting our Western ways, it is a death sentence for them once we leave.
So what do you guys think our goal, objective or purpose is to still remain here year after year?

We don't know how to get out of here, yet we are already thinking of going into Syria and Iran? What is wrong with us?

Don't get me wrong, I'll go where they tell me to go, but atleast give me some direction as to what we are meant or trying to accomplish.

"In our Country...one class of men makes war and leaves another to fight it out." Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman

[dcan]

I feel ya. I felt the same way when I was over there. You want to make a difference, and you feel great about what you do, but then you realize that it will just get blown to shit as soon as you turn around. An insurgency is a tough nut to crack, because the people who are your friends in all likelihood want to be your friends but they also want to keep their heads and their family's heads as well.

You have to change the culture to change what happens over there. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen, especially when we pop off and murder a few families. We know that's an extreme abnormality but unfortunately they (like many here in this country) believe otherwise, either because they want to believe it or because they are brainwashed into it. I had terps tell me they liked the US and knew the people wanted to do a lot of good, but others clearly had at least some level of hostility but wanted the money.

It's just a god-awful situation all the way around. At this point we are there because we broke the eggs and now have to make something out of it. If we don't stay and make something good out of it we will have another Vietnam. Unfortunately, the longer we remain the more likely it is to become that. I told my wife and dad when I returned a few years ago that it was Vietnam all over again, and sadly it looks more and more that way each day.

[JBjunior]

I feel ya. I felt the same way when I was over there. You want to make a difference, and you feel great about what you do, but then you realize that it will just get blown to shit as soon as you turn around. An insurgency is a tough nut to crack, because the people who are your friends in all likelihood want to be your friends but they also want to keep their heads and their family's heads as well.

You have to change the culture to change what happens over there. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen, especially when we pop off and murder a few families. We know that's an extreme abnormality but unfortunately they (like many here in this country) believe otherwise, either because they want to believe it or because they are brainwashed into it. I had terps tell me they liked the US and knew the people wanted to do a lot of good, but others clearly had at least some level of hostility but wanted the money.

It's just a god-awful situation all the way around. At this point we are there because we broke the eggs and now have to make something out of it. If we don't stay and make something good out of it we will have another Vietnam. Unfortunately, the longer we remain the more likely it is to become that. I told my wife and dad when I returned a few years ago that it was Vietnam all over again, and sadly it looks more and more that way each day.

My thought is that war is a terrible thing. People die, populations are destroyed, people are beat in to submission. Starting in Vietnam we have not been willing to fight a ground war that is willing to accomplish the goals of what war is. You can not fight and win a politically correct war. You can't have it both ways. You can't beat a population in to submission and make the world think we are doing it ethically. It isn't possible.

Iraq is a perfect example. We destroyed the Iraqi Forces almost immediately. As was mentioned with an insurgency, almost everyone has made war their personal battle because we are viewed as outsiders. Everyday a new person takes up arms and we are breeding the enemy simply by being there. We can't go in and ravage the "enemy" because they are imbedded everywhere and that would be viewed by the world to be unethical, therefore we can't win. As was mentioned, it would have to be a cultural change and no one is going to listen or change the culture in a population where the "enemy," in this case us, is attempting to forcibly change it. The brain and cultural change does not work that way.

My end note is: If you are going to fight a war, then fight a war and all that entails. Get in, accomplish your mission, and get out. You can't play peacekeeper and war fighter at the same time. If we aren't willing to do that, which obviously we aren't, it is time to get out and stop losing young men and women while playing at war.

[LaterBloomer]

Hey, CLEP. So glad you've posted. I was thinking of IM'ing you after your other posts 'cause you seemed a bit bummed. Then the allegations against the American soldier in Afghanistan came out, and I was wondering how it was affecting you folks. I wish I knew how to answer this. Brute force isn't the answer. It has to be a surgical excision of the cancer, I suppose. Of course, cancer reoccurs, or something else will "kill" the society. My Pollyanna (spelling) attitude is that we should have gone in building schools and clinics. We've tried to buy loyalty in other ways, and if someone will sell his loyalty to you, well, it ain't loyalty. I don't know how this is supposed to be won. Just declare victory, and get out, I suppose. Regardless, thank you for what you're doing, and what you've done.

[CLEP101]

My Pollyanna (spelling) attitude is that we should have gone in building schools and clinics.

I guess it all sounds good and very humanitarian when we say we should build schools and clinics, but the people in this area don't want none of it. They only want it when they pose for our cameras and when the world is paying attention to the "progess." Once the spotlight is off their newly built schools and clinics, they tear it down because it is against what they believe in, and of course because the occupiers built it for them. They are only interested in teaching one thing, the words of their holy book.
They just want us out.
We actually had a team go out and talk to the villages around the country and we were asking what help they needed. They all said they don't need anything. If they did get something, like a school or clinic, or some other kind of building, they told us, we'll just tear it down as soon as you leave or wont us it.
We are pumping money into this place by the billions, but where is it?

[LaterBloomer]

Swiss bank accounts.

My memory is terrible, but didn't Saudia Arabia (again with the spelling) sent Wahabi or Wasabi or some sort of VERY conservative teachers all over the place to inculcate the masses in their version of Islam? (Please, I'm not being intentionally insensitive with the branch of Islam; I just have a ROTTEN memory.) I think that this version of Islam has been what these folks have learned. It will take a looooong time, but can't it be turned around?

Okay, that's my two cents. I certainly haven't been there, and my opinion is just speculation.

You know what's so sad? We talk about the Renaissance, but while we in the West were being "reborn," those in the East still had the knowledge. My understanding is that they were much more tolerant of religious diversity then say, the Spanish. Heck, until just recently, any guy who wanted to stay in line for the British throne couldn't have married a Roman Catholic. He could have married anyone from an atheist to a Zorastrian, but not a Roman Catholic. Not too tolerant, if you ask me.

[dcan]

Islam is just as tolerant as Christianity. In other words, it depends on the person, the culture, and the age. Right now Islam is predominantly defined, at least in the West, through Wahabism. Yes, Saudi Arabia for the past century or so has spent a lot of time promoting Wahabism which is essentially the Fred Phelps version of Islam. I think most people don't really understand that. And they started with their own people. So now they have a religious movement calling for their own heads and they don't know what to do with it. They created the snake, and now it is starting to bite them.

BTW sorry but you are Pollyanna-ish. I worked for a Provincial Reconstruction Team over there. Our job was exactly that: build infrastructure. We funded local workers to help boost the economy, evaluated projects for sturdiness, etc. We built water treatment plants, dams, bridges, and schools. We also went to villages and handed out "HA", humanitarian assistance. Think bags of rice, beans, cans of cooking oil, etc. Truckloads of it. We also had medical teams go along, providing medical care, checkups, immunizations, etc. Women's health teams would go and deal with only the women, wearing shawls to make them more comfortable. Hell we even did at least one vet visit and treated livestock.

And we were just one team. There were dozens of us around the country, at least one per province usually, convoying out to villages 7 days a week including Christmas. Heck, we even had a foreign service officer from the State Department and a rep from USAID with us. We also had a guy from the Corps of Engineers coordinating road paving at $25 million per mile.

And it didn't mean much of a damn thing. There is something fundamentally wrong when you go to a village to hand out free humanitarian aid, and you have to plan your approach days in advance, sweep for IEDs en route, quickly establish a wide security perimeter, and then drop your stuff and haul to avoid being a target any longer than necessary.

And a lot of people don't realize that when we originally went into Afghanistan Bush actually wanted to drop HA before we dropped bombs, and was talked out of it because we had to at least establish air superiority to keep the HA drops from getting shot down by missiles. So he ordered it dropped as soon as possible, and as much as possible during the bombing campaigns. But the HA drops were in yellow containers that looked a lot like cluster bomblets that were on delayed fuses, so people started getting maimed and killed by what they thought was humanitarian aid. And when that started happening the news started reporting on parents sending their children out to pick up the "aid" just in case it would explode.

Culture.

I do think the military has been used too much for too many things. We are worn thin. We can't be 100% on killers and the next minute be 100% off nice guys. It doesn't work that way. And you have people in the AOR who have to be both at all times. It's wearing people down fast.

If you are going to fight a war, then fight a war and all that entails. Get in, accomplish your mission, and get out. You can't play peacekeeper and war fighter at the same time. If we aren't willing to do that, which obviously we aren't, it is time to get out and stop losing young men and women while playing at war.

You guys will love this presentation. Trust me, set aside 25 minutes and listen to this guy. He has been giving a longer version of this briefing in the Pentagon for years. He wrote The Pentagon's New Map and lays out how to do just what you describe. He's a genius and has a hell of way of explaining himself that is both funny and poignant.

Interestingly, his idea sounds a lot like the proposal for a Department of Peace. I think there's some merit to it.

[andy3000]

1 So that defense contractors can get rich.

2 To piss off Muslims which then justifies turning the USA into a police state. Also, justifies billions in contracts for homeland security.

3 To create disorder.

[RugbyMan187]

I might just quit this forum for the BS put in this post. Goto the front lines my friend, you will get the answers you search for. What would you rather do: Fight in their country, or fight in ours? You can whine and cry and point fingers all you want and come up with lame excuses on where this or why that. Bottom line is here is a statement for you:
If you don't like it, get out! All some of you people on here do is cry about being overseas, starting count-downs. Stupid and immature. Either wear the boots or take them off. If your in the Military, set the example that tax payers are paying for. I would hope that none of you re-up. If the shoe fits...Wear it!
Live from the Korengal valley....You should know where that is lol.
P.S. will not be looking at this post(period) Shame

[CLEP101]

I might just quit this forum for the BS put in this post. Goto the front lines my friend, you will get the answers you search for. What would you rather do: Fight in their country, or fight in ours? You can whine and cry and point fingers all you want and come up with lame excuses on where this or why that. Bottom line is here is a statement for you:
If you don't like it, get out! All some of you people on here do is cry about being overseas, starting count-downs. Stupid and immature. Either wear the boots or take them off. If your in the Military, set the example that tax payers are paying for. I would hope that none of you re-up. If the shoe fits...Wear it!
Live from the Korengal valley....You should know where that is lol.
P.S. will not be looking at this post(period) Shame

Yep, know exactly where Korengal is, Stay safe Bronco.