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Would I be a fool to get out of the military?
#21
Hey fellow Airman,

You and I are (almost) in the same boat. 4 month's is not a lot of time to get things squared away, so why not extend for a year and continue working on your education and fully committing to a decision?

My contract ended in August of this year...and I'm a network technician. The opportunities for me are everywhere, but I don't feel like I'm "done" yet, ya know? So I needed that extra time to really figure out what I wanted...so I extended for 12 months. It might be a little more difficult to extend "just because", thanks to these drawdowns, but my extension got approved because I'm on a deployment.

If you fill out the paperwork for an extension, "Benefit of the Air Force" is the reason I put and my commander approved it.

Good luck!

edit: I guess I should have read your post entirely. I see you've already looked into an extension, so good on you for that.
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#22
I think you should stay in. My husband left the military in 2013 and regretted it ever since. Before he left, he was complaining about the military for months. Said he hated all the restrictions and that he wants to be free again.

After he went out we went on a looooooooong vacation together. It was awesome! Really! Best time of our lives! However, reality hit hard when we came back and my husband tried to find a job. Not that he could not find one (he was in logistics and had several opportunities). The problem was that the pay was not the same and even if it was, taxes hit us so hard we never managed to make the same!
Now he is working for a company with no paid leave for the first year (one week after that), he works about 50-60 hours a week for less than what he got in the military, and he has to put up with a catastrophic, unorganized management that puts all the workload on his shoulders.

The pros of leaving the military:
We received separation pay
He is free to speed again and get a ticket (if he wants to)
He can chose where he wants to work and live
He gets promoted faster if he works hard and an opportunity comes up (might get a management position soon)

I hope I won't burst the freedom bubble here, but you will NOT gain back a lot of freedom after you leave the military. Unless you are rich or start your own business, you will have to work your butt of for somebody else.

Think very carefully about all of this before you jump on the "let's get out" train. I know several people who jumped on this train enthusiastically screaming "FREEDOOOOOOOM," and know they cannot find a job or work shitty jobs. My husband was lucky because he was in logistics, a career field that is always hiring, but if you are doing something that is not a very "wanted" career filed outside the military, STAY IN and finish your degree first! You have a wife and a child to take care of, and the economy is not good enough to get out and hope to find a better job
Also, spouses cannot take CLEPS for free, no matter if you active, reserves, or a civilian.

Moral of this story...my husband is out and I will join this fall.
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#23
Quote:My job is 3D0X4 Programmer, but I doubt I could get a job with the "experience" I've gotten here. I would have to lie through my teeth to make myself look good, so pretty much just memorize my EPR bullets... I don't enjoy coding, luckily I haven't had to do hardly any since tech school. Guard seems to be the only option between the 2 since there aren't any Reserve bases in MI.

Greetings from a fellow 3D0X4 on the opposite end of the spectrum (looking towards retirement soon). I can tell you the career field can be tricky sometimes, and we as a career field do a very, very bad job of communicating with others. And you either wind up in a team of programmers or you are "that guy" who is the only one in the unit and you feel all alone. Been there, done that, and it gets frustrating not having any line of comms with your field.

You have no doubt received a good bit of advice from many sources beyond just this forum, and there isn't much I can add that hasn't already been said. Needless to say I agree with the "in a bad economy, hold on to what you've got" and "thank God I stayed in and will have a retirement check as an extra peace-of-mind cushion" and "this is a decision to make with your wife" camps. There are so many things that can and will change in your life that it is virtually impossible for you to plan for where you "will be" in the next 15 or so years, so it seems rather pie-in-the-sky right now, but I can assure you that for virtually everyone I've ever known they either were glad they stuck it out or regretted not sticking it out. The cost of healthcare is going through the roof while Tricare premiums for retirees are dramatically low (though that may change in the future, but it will probably still be lower than the normal market average).

If you are going towards a BSBA CIS you will take finance, which is quantified risk management. Remember the ORM CBT that everybody whined about and yawned through? That in spades. You need to think in terms of what risks you face with getting out vs what risks you face staying in, and you can then list out things you can do to mitigate each to the maximum extent possible. Doing that can really help you see what the downside is for each option, which can sway your opinion.

I'll also add that if you are planning to live off the GI Bill stipend you really can be in for a huge shock. A *lot* of Airmen say that and are stunned when reality hits. If you are not going full time, in person, that E-5 BAH is suddenly cut in half, and *then* the prorating starts based on % of full time. So if your school says 12 hours is full time, and you are taking 6 hours online only, your $1200 is cut to $600 (because you are not butt-in-seat) and then prorated down to $300 (because of half-time). Ouch.

Finally, programmer-to-programmer, you may not realize it but you have what I would consider by far one of the cushiest jobs in the entire military. I say this as someone who has deployed with sister service ground forces. The amount of crap people in the service have to put up with often dwarfs what we deal with on a daily basis. Tons of people are working 12 hour shifts with difficult supervisors, on top of family issues, debt issues, you name it. They have to deal with a lot more than we do. You are in a field that is in extremely high demand, that gives you virtually unlimited opportunities, and offers tons of training. It may not be your current job, but it is your field in general. I dealt with a horrible assignment for several years and wound up in a far better place afterwards. It isn't all rainbows and gumdrops, but nobody is being shot at, and we are generally left alone to do what we deem is necessary to make things happen. In fact, I would venture to say that if you do stick it out you might find that you start to be seen as an "expert in X" and you are also allowed more leeway to eventually include essentially defining your own job entirely. We are not much unlike Army warrant officers -- technical experts who are (ideally) left alone to think about and solve problems. We just don't get paid as well. :\

I just hope that you don't let one assigment control your viewpoint. There can be lots of opportunities out there for you. And if you do decide to get out, don't forget that you don't have to be a programmer. Because you are a programmer you have a unique viewpoint into how systems are architected and implemented, a view that I'm sure you've noticed many of the "less technical" people in decision-making positions often sorely lack. Your knowledge combined with some people skills can go a long way. You can position yourself as a requirements analyst, business analyst, database administrator, data architect, etc. Your training cuts across so many fields its ridiculous. Analysis is analysis regardless of what field you are in, so a keen analytical mind is worth its weight in gold in many places. So don't limit yourself to "I have to be a programmer" because that is an artificial limitation.

Good luck and I wish you the best, whichever choice you make.
Community-Supported Wiki(link approved by forum admin)

Complete: TESU BA Computer Science
2011-2013 completed all BSBA CIS requirements except 4 gen eds.
2013 switched major to CS, then took a couple years off suddenly.
2015-2017 finished the CS.

CCAF: AAS Comp Sci
CLEP (10): A&I Lit, College Composition Modular, College Math, Financial Accounting, Marketing, Management, Microecon, Sociology, Psychology, Info Systems
DSST (4): Public Speaking, Business Ethics, Finance, MIS

ALEKS (3): College Algebra, Trig, Stats
UMUC (3): Comparative programming languages, Signal & Image Processing, Analysis of Algorithms
TESU (11): English Comp, Business Law, Macroecon, Managerial Accounting, Strategic Mgmt (BSBA Capstone), C++, Data Structures, Calc I/II, Discrete Math, BA Capstone

Warning: BA Capstone is a thesis, mine was 72 pages about a cryptography topic

Wife pursuing Public Admin cert via CSU.
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#24
Thank you LuhDoo, thedaye, and dcan for taking the time to respond and sending those wise words my way. This forum truly is a blessing full of selfless, caring people. After weighing the pros and cons and procrastinating far too long, I've decided to extend 12 months. Like you said LuhDoo, it was very difficult to convince my squadron commander to sign it given the force shaping. In the end MPF fought for me and basically said the commander can't disapprove it unless there is a very good reason (article 15).

With all of this uncertainty I've also applied to TESC this week and sent them my 6 transcripts, 281 credits... I'm pretty sure I'm still 7 or 8 courses away from any degree, but I figured I'd get the ball rolling on the eval and get locked into the current catalog. I'll be posting my plan on here soon enough Smile

I also test for staff again next Thursday. That result could be a potential game changer with next year's decision...

I'll keep you posted, thanks again everyone!
TESU BSBA in General Management
CCAF AAS in Computer Science Technology

Resources used:  CLEP, DSST,
Penn Foster, Sophia, StraighterLine, TEEX, NFA, ALEKS, The Institutes
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#25
If a one year extension is an option, then that sounds like it's probably a good idea in your circumstances, but I'll throw in a good word for the guard anyway.

I'm on the Army side of the house - got off active duty in 2010 thinking that I'd just live off the GI Bill while going to school. That didn't actually work out at all well - between delays with the VA and school processing paperwork, and the fact that the stipend only pays for when you're in school and *not* for breaks in between semesters, ended up working just as many hours as I had been while in.

Thankfully, I'd joined the guard when I got out instead of separating completely, so I still had cheap healthcare. Managed to turn my guard membership into a full-time technician gig just over a year ago. Now I'm finishing my degree using TA and saving what's left of my GI Bill (only used a few months so far) for a professional degree program that I hope to get into a couple years down the road.

If you're at all ambivalent about getting out completely, but also don't want to stay in, then the guard can be a great option - you might even like it. I was surprised at how much I did.

But that said, if you're not prepared to deal with a bit of life upheaval then I wouldn't get out. I was on unemployment for four months and ended up crashing on my parent's couch for a while - but I was and still am a single person who can deal with things like that. You may not want to take that kind of risk if you've got a baby on the way.
DSST | Astronomy - 68 | Anthropology - 73 | HTYH - 450 | Intro to Comp. - 454 | Religions - 459 | Lifespan Dev. - 419 | Counseling - 409 | Substance Abuse - 456 | Geography - 463 | Environment & Humanity - 463 | CLEP | A & I Lit - 75 | Humanities - 57 | Psych - 64 | Western Civ I - 57 | College Comp. - 65 | College Math - 61 | Ed. Psych - 65 | US History I - 68 | Soc Sci & History - 69 | Western Civ II - 53 | US History II - 61 | UExcel | College Writing - A | Social Psych - B | Abnormal Psych - B | Cultural Div. - B | Juvenile Delinquency - B | World Pop. - A | Psych of Adulthood & Aging - A | Straighterline | Intro to Philosophy - 75% | American Gov. - 89% | Macroecon | Microecon | Bus. Communication | Bus. Ethics | Cultural Anth. - 96% |

AAS in Intelligence Operations Studies - Graduated 2015!
BA in Social Sciences & Humanities from TESU - in progress

186 credits and counting...
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#26
There is a third option as well: Active Guard and Active Reserve. Those in the Guard and Reserves are part-time but they report through a chain that has to have full-time staff. Basically you would report through the Guard or Reserve chain but be in permanent Active status, possibly assigned on a regular AF base as a liaison of some sort. I've worked with both including at least one who was a programmer who was actively recruited from Active Duty into the ANG to do the same job in the same seat but to answer to them instead of the normal chain -- but that was a very unusual situation.

There are benefits to it, including full-time pay/benefits and I believe more stability and less or even no deployment (depending on your job, don't quote me). There are drawbacks as well, such as positions being cut when times are lean. In the Guard at least (again, to the best of my knowledge) your rank and your job depend on the slot you are in. You are promoted by moving to a different position, so you can go up or down in rank when moving positions, and if the budget is tight in the state they can cut the position and you are effectively returned to non-Active status.

So there are pros and cons, but you should at least know about them and find out more about them. Now that you have an extra year you have enough time to find out everything you need. Smile
Community-Supported Wiki(link approved by forum admin)

Complete: TESU BA Computer Science
2011-2013 completed all BSBA CIS requirements except 4 gen eds.
2013 switched major to CS, then took a couple years off suddenly.
2015-2017 finished the CS.

CCAF: AAS Comp Sci
CLEP (10): A&I Lit, College Composition Modular, College Math, Financial Accounting, Marketing, Management, Microecon, Sociology, Psychology, Info Systems
DSST (4): Public Speaking, Business Ethics, Finance, MIS

ALEKS (3): College Algebra, Trig, Stats
UMUC (3): Comparative programming languages, Signal & Image Processing, Analysis of Algorithms
TESU (11): English Comp, Business Law, Macroecon, Managerial Accounting, Strategic Mgmt (BSBA Capstone), C++, Data Structures, Calc I/II, Discrete Math, BA Capstone

Warning: BA Capstone is a thesis, mine was 72 pages about a cryptography topic

Wife pursuing Public Admin cert via CSU.
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#27
dcan Wrote:There is a third option as well: Active Guard and Active Reserve.

That is what i did when i got out. I'm a reserve technician, and using my gi bill at night to get the BAH. I don’t know about the Guard, but reserve technician slots are very unlikely to get cut with budget cuts.

And to the other point below about living off of the gi bill, as long as you do your research in advance and know that ahead of time, it is doable. I found a school that only has 1-2 week breaks in between semesters. And i made sure the school has a good reputation with students using the gi bill, i did not have any delays. Also doesn’t hurt if you find a place with a very high bah rate so you can bank some of it.
Intro to Computing - 67; Ethics in America - 53; Analyzing & Interpreting Lit - 53; Principles of Management - 58; Lifespan Dev Psyc - 51; Human Resource Management - 46; Info Sys & comp Applications - 61; Principles of Supervision - 47; Human Cultural Geography - 51; Public Speaking - 55; College Mathmatics - 55; College Comp w/essay - 53; Technical Writing - 59;
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#28
It's been a while so I figured I would give an update on my situation. We were planning on getting out at the end of the one year extension, but my Dr. decided to put me in for a med board. It seemed like a strange decision for him to make just months before I would get out, but from what I have heard he is doing me a favor since I will have my disability percentage before I separate instead of months after. This is going to extend my enlistment a bit further and has set me up for getting an internship while I wait for the results.

I'm in the middle of searching for an internship at the moment and am very excited at the possibilities. I'll have to put in another update on that later, but it sounds like a great program for anyone going through an MEB. It's called Operation Warfighter and is supported by many federal agencies. I am hoping it will give me some good IT experience outside of the military. Fingers crossed!

I am also 5 classes shy of a BSBA at TESC, but am stuck on the Principles of Finance DSST at the moment. Then I will just need Business Communications, Managerial Accounting, Intermediate Accounting, and Strategic Management. I plan on doing the Uexcel for Business Communications and PF for the last 3. I will do Finance through PF if I fail the DSST, but figured I should at least try for the test first since it's free. I'm not sure if the Post 9/11 will cover those PF courses and the TESC enrollment fee, so if anyone has any recent experience on that it would be much appreciated!
TESU BSBA in General Management
CCAF AAS in Computer Science Technology

Resources used:  CLEP, DSST,
Penn Foster, Sophia, StraighterLine, TEEX, NFA, ALEKS, The Institutes
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#29
jmeitrem Wrote:It's been a while so I figured I would give an update on my situation. We were planning on getting out at the end of the one year extension, but my Dr. decided to put me in for a med board. It seemed like a strange decision for him to make just months before I would get out, but from what I have heard he is doing me a favor since I will have my disability percentage before I separate instead of months after. This is going to extend my enlistment a bit further and has set me up for getting an internship while I wait for the results.

I'm in the middle of searching for an internship at the moment and am very excited at the possibilities. I'll have to put in another update on that later, but it sounds like a great program for anyone going through an MEB. It's called Operation Warfighter and is supported by many federal agencies. I am hoping it will give me some good IT experience outside of the military. Fingers crossed!

I am also 5 classes shy of a BSBA at TESC, but am stuck on the Principles of Finance DSST at the moment. Then I will just need Business Communications, Managerial Accounting, Intermediate Accounting, and Strategic Management. I plan on doing the Uexcel for Business Communications and PF for the last 3. I will do Finance through PF if I fail the DSST, but figured I should at least try for the test first since it's free. I'm not sure if the Post 9/11 will cover those PF courses and the TESC enrollment fee, so if anyone has any recent experience on that it would be much appreciated!

WOW! It was great that you posted an update!! Sounds like lots of exciting changes ahead for you. Smile Not being a "business person" I can't offer any help for your Finance speed bump, but I'll encourage you just the same. It's worth it!!
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#30
Although you may be discharged with a percentage from the Air Force this is not a disability rating from the VA. They are two different things altogether. I think the VA lets you submit your claim paperwork either 90 days or 180 days before you get out so if you plan on going for disability compensation from the VA now is the time to think about submitting your claim. It took me literally 18 months for my rating to be awarded. Also if you suspect that you have any issues now, make sure you go to the doc and get them checked out ASAP, this way the issues are already in your medical record and you don't have to try and prove that these concerns happened while you were in the service. Get everything you can think of into that medical record. It can be something as small as a weird feeling in your right knee. This can turn into a serious knee issue 20 years down the road which may require a knee replacement and since the military made you run all those miles for some years on rough concrete they should be paying for it...
2014 MBA Management & Strategy - WGU
2013 BS
Nuclear Energy Engineering Technology - TESC
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