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affordable Eng Comp I & II online courses - not SL, etc
#1
I'm searching for a college that doesn't require placement tests in order to take English Composition.  I'd like to take the CLEP but I'm slow at typing and processing things so when I write essays, or take any test that's not objective, it takes me much longer than most people.  I know there are other options like SL, etc, but I want to take an actual course as if I was sitting in class at a Uni - but online.

History of the situation:  
I went online this morning to complete an application for my local North Carolina community college. I had some questions so I called the college and talked with an admissions specialist.  I told her I only want to take English Comp I and II and maybe an accounting course.  She said since it's been more than 5 years since I took placement exams or any college course, I would need to take the placement exams again before they will allow me to register for any college-level course, even if I'm taking a course for transfer or just for the fun of it - aka "Special Credit" at NC Comm Colleges.

I can see this if it's someone who recently graduated high school and either have no ACT score or it's below the required score or if they have no college credits, but seriously, retaking placement tests seems unreasonable to me.  I explained but the admissions counselor stood firm.

Btw, if you're located in North Carolina, consider taking Community College courses - before your ACT score expires in 5 years - as they only cost $76 per credit - not including other fees or books, of course.

I'm almost done collecting credits for my bachelor degree.  I've stupidly saved the most painful courses for last.  

What to do?  It needs to be affordable aka cheap, 100% online and work at my own pace for all assignments and tests/exams (which usually means no proctoring).  Suggestions?

Thank you in advance!  Smile
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#2
Rio Salado has online courses, and the nice thing is that they don't do a semester-based system - they allow you to choose online or print-based, and choose between 8-wk, 12-wk and 14-wk courses. They have rolling starts, meaning they start each Monday. You will pay more for them than other NM CC's, but you have so many options there that no one else has. $215/cr.

NMJC has English Comp I & II, and you can choose to do them for the full semester each, or each for an accelerated half-semester. The nice thing is the price of only $69/cr! That's an amazing deal for an online course at an RA school.
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#3
I wouldn't bother taking the courses. Take the CLEP instead. The English Composition CLEP is accepted for ENG 111 and ENG 112 at most universities. It has a pass rate of 81%, and you can take it for free through Modern States.
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#4
(07-30-2018, 03:38 PM)rvm Wrote: I'm searching for a college that doesn't require placement tests in order to take English Composition.  I'd like to take the CLEP but I'm slow at typing and processing things so when I write essays, or take any test that's not objective, it takes me much longer than most people.  I know there are other options like SL, etc, but I want to take an actual course as if I was sitting in class at a Uni - but online.

History of the situation:  
I went online this morning to complete an application for my local North Carolina community college. I had some questions so I called the college and talked with an admissions specialist.  I told her I only want to take English Comp I and II and maybe an accounting course.  She said since it's been more than 5 years since I took placement exams or any college course, I would need to take the placement exams again before they will allow me to register for any college-level course, even if I'm taking a course for transfer or just for the fun of it - aka "Special Credit" at NC Comm Colleges.

I can see this if it's someone who recently graduated high school and either have no ACT score or it's below the required score or if they have no college credits, but seriously, retaking placement tests seems unreasonable to me.  I explained but the admissions counselor stood firm.

Btw, if you're located in North Carolina, consider taking Community College courses - before your ACT score expires in 5 years - as they only cost $76 per credit - not including other fees or books, of course.

I'm almost done collecting credits for my bachelor degree.  I've stupidly saved the most painful courses for last.  

What to do?  It needs to be affordable aka cheap, 100% online and work at my own pace for all assignments and tests/exams (which usually means no proctoring).  Suggestions?

Thank you in advance!  Smile


NC isn't going to budge- but......
the placement test its free. You can literally go take it today or tomorrow, you have NOTHING to lose. You can even skip the math section. It's multiple choice except for a small written portion. My teens all passed this in high school around 10th / 11th grade and trust me when I tell you, my 10th grader's essay was probably horrific. If you *don't* pass, you can pay $10 and go back in and take the section you didn't pass (you'll have 2 sections total: writing and reading) the next day but you'll know what to expect.
My advice is to go take the test asap. Don't even worry about studying, just see where you stand. If you're almost done with your degree, you clearly possess the knowledge and you might surprise yourself.
Also, fall classes are getting full, you'll want to do today- I think you can pass. This test is NOTHING like the ACE / SAT, it's just a short computer based test. Go for it Robin!

PS if you score into 101 English, you're good to go. If not, you can jump through the hoops of finding another college.
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#5
(07-30-2018, 11:36 PM)dfrecore Wrote: Rio Salado has online courses, and the nice thing is that they don't do a semester-based system - they allow you to choose online or print-based, and choose between 8-wk, 12-wk and 14-wk courses.  They have rolling starts, meaning they start each Monday.  You will pay more for them than other NM CC's, but you have so many options there that no one else has.  $215/cr.

NMJC has English Comp I & II, and you can choose to do them for the full semester each, or each for an accelerated half-semester.  The nice thing is the price of only $69/cr!  That's an amazing deal for an online course at an RA school.

Thank you Dfrecore!  I like having options, especially rolling options as I'd like to finish Eng I & II quickly - knock them both out before Christmas.

$69 is speaking my language.  I've done everything to this point on a shoestring budget.  With one kid currently in college and one kid going in a few years, I can't take out a loan to finish, especially knowing I will probably only work for another 3 - 7 years, unless there's a drastic change for the worse.

(07-31-2018, 12:17 AM)alexf.1990 Wrote: I wouldn't bother taking the courses. Take the CLEP instead. The English Composition CLEP is accepted for ENG 111 and ENG 112 at most universities. It has a pass rate of 81%, and you can take it for free through Modern States.

Alexf, this would have been a great solution if I had simply kicked out the Comp & Essay CLEP 10 years ago.  But now, my mental and physical health have changed.  I'm a slow typist and I processing things slower than the average adult. So, when I write essays, it takes me much longer than most people.  I could not complete the essay part of CLEP in the given time and produce a passing score.
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#6
I know you mentioned Straighterline is not an option for you, however please be aware their English 1 and 2, don't have a Final Proctor exam. You just finish the work and essays and you are done.
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#7
(07-31-2018, 06:34 AM)cookderosa Wrote: NC isn't going to budge- but......
the placement test its free. You can literally go take it today or tomorrow, you have NOTHING to lose.  You can even skip the math section.  It's multiple choice except for a small written portion.  My teens all passed this in high school around 10th / 11th grade and trust me when I tell you, my 10th grader's essay was probably horrific.  If you *don't* pass, you can pay $10 and go back in and take the section you didn't pass (you'll have 2 sections total: writing and reading) the next day but you'll know what to expect.
My advice is to go take the test asap.  Don't even worry about studying, just see where you stand. If you're almost done with your degree, you clearly possess the knowledge and you might surprise yourself.
Also, fall classes are getting full, you'll want to do today- I think you can pass. This test is NOTHING like the ACE / SAT, it's just a short computer based test.  Go for it Robin!

PS if you score into 101 English, you're good to go.  If  not, you can jump through the hoops of finding another college.

Thank you Jen!  You have encouraged and supported me for the last 10 years.  I am so grateful!  Smile  

I should probably call the college & schedule my test.  The only reason I haven't done so is due to their extremely critical responses when my daughter took the English placement test last summer.  They were so overly critical, they made her feel inferior - as if she had never written an essay in her life.  She's been an ace writer for years.  She attended one of the top 10 high schools in NC and her English grades were always As or high Bs.  The college was trying to break her down in an effort to put her in remedial English - a pure cash cow for the college.  I don't know if they had an imbalance in the student / teacher ratio for Eng I that semester or if that's common practice.  We submitted the essay she wrote to another college and they were not nearly as critical.  In fact, they had the opposite response b/c it was an excellent essay.

This game being played at the local comm college is ridiculuos.  There are some other issues of disappearing resources at this particular college. I'm trying to decide if someone is doing something illegal and if i should a file a complaint with the state AG.  I haven't done so because my child is a student there and I'm concerned about potential repercussions.
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#8
(07-31-2018, 09:48 AM)rckola911 Wrote: I know you mentioned Straighterline is not an option for you, however please be aware their English 1 and 2, don't have a Final Proctor exam.  You just finish the work  and essays and you are done.

Thank you Rckola!  This may be something to consider if I don't find an affordable course at a RA college that doesn't require a placement test with a timed essay.  I do like SL's format.  However, I'm considering some options other than the big-4 and at least a few of them want actual college courses for Eng I & II.
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#9
(07-31-2018, 09:57 AM)rvm Wrote:
(07-31-2018, 06:34 AM)cookderosa Wrote: NC isn't going to budge- but......
the placement test its free. You can literally go take it today or tomorrow, you have NOTHING to lose.  You can even skip the math section.  It's multiple choice except for a small written portion.  My teens all passed this in high school around 10th / 11th grade and trust me when I tell you, my 10th grader's essay was probably horrific.  If you *don't* pass, you can pay $10 and go back in and take the section you didn't pass (you'll have 2 sections total: writing and reading) the next day but you'll know what to expect.
My advice is to go take the test asap.  Don't even worry about studying, just see where you stand. If you're almost done with your degree, you clearly possess the knowledge and you might surprise yourself.
Also, fall classes are getting full, you'll want to do today- I think you can pass. This test is NOTHING like the ACE / SAT, it's just a short computer based test.  Go for it Robin!

PS if you score into 101 English, you're good to go.  If  not, you can jump through the hoops of finding another college.

Thank you Jen!  You have encouraged and supported me for the last 10 years.  I am so grateful!  Smile  

I should probably call the college & schedule my test.  The only reason I haven't done so is due to their extremely critical responses when my daughter took the English placement test last summer.  They were so overly critical, they made her feel inferior - as if she had never written an essay in her life.  She's been an ace writer for years.  She attended one of the top 10 high schools in NC and her English grades were always As or high Bs.  The college was trying to break her down in an effort to put her in remedial English - a pure cash cow for the college.  I don't know if they had an imbalance in the student / teacher ratio for Eng I that semester or if that's common practice.  We submitted the essay she wrote to another college and they were not nearly as critical.  In fact, they had the opposite response b/c it was an excellent essay.

This game being played at the local comm college is ridiculuos.  There are some other issues of disappearing resources at this particular college. I'm trying to decide if someone is doing something illegal and if i should a file a complaint with the state AG.  I haven't done so because my child is a student there and I'm concerned about potential repercussions.

You need the Accuplacer inside the NC system, it doesn't get "feedback" that I'm aware of, but could your daughter have taken something else - NCDAPT maybe? (I know I'm getting that acronym wrong- I can never remember that stupid test name) I believe it's just a numeric score. My son got "4" for whatever that's worth, and that was before he learned how to write a 5 paragraph essay (he did SL 1 and 2 not the community college) But go to the next closest school. All our schools share this exam, you don't have to use your testing center. Wink

And yes, you're preaching to the choir. I think developmental courses are the biggest cash cow for a public college and likely a total scam. In my opinion, the REASON I object to the developmental (under 100) courses is because the are never measured. In other words, you take ENG080 because your score was too low and after ENG080 you go directly to ENG111. A system that was interested in *actual* development would then take the ENG080 students and retest them with the placement tool. The student should, presumably, be qualified to pass and then move forward to ENG111. It's underhanded that the loop never happens, and that 80% of students "need remediation" is suspicious to me, especially since we haven't even established that ENG080 remediates anyone.
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#10
(08-02-2018, 11:02 AM)cookderosa Wrote: You need the Accuplacer inside the NC system, it doesn't get "feedback" that I'm aware of, but could your daughter have taken something else - NCDAPT maybe? (I know I'm getting that acronym wrong- I can never remember that stupid test name)  I believe it's just a numeric score.  My son got "4" for whatever that's worth, and that was before he learned how to write a 5 paragraph essay (he did SL 1 and 2 not the community college) But go to the next closest school. All our schools share this exam, you don't have to use your testing center. Wink

And yes, you're preaching to the choir.  I think developmental courses are the biggest cash cow for a public college and likely a total scam.  In  my opinion, the REASON I object to the developmental (under 100) courses is because the are never measured.  In other words, you take ENG080 because your score was too low and after ENG080 you go directly to ENG111.  A system that was interested in *actual* development would then take the ENG080 students and retest them with the placement tool.  The student should, presumably, be qualified to pass and then move forward to ENG111.  It's underhanded that the loop never happens, and that 80% of students "need remediation" is suspicious to me, especially since we haven't even established that ENG080 remediates anyone.

Great question, Jen!  I really do not know which placement tests my kiddo took.  For math, the score was presented in numerical values.  She scored between 9 & 11 on all the sections.  I think that was enough to place her in PreCalc.  However, I convinced her to begin with Statistics and move to College Algebra since she's not a science or engineering major.

The reading portion was presented in numerical values as well but I don't remember her score.  

The essay part was what was so disturbing. After she submitted her essay, the placement center staff reviewed it with her and told her she needed remedial English.  She was permitted to print the essay and bring it home.  I remember that day in great detail, except her score, because she was soooo emotionally distraught.  She really thought they were going to place her in remedial English.  That could have been potentially been due to her time running out before she completed the last few sentences of her essay.  

She's in a better mental state now but at that time, she had extreme test anxiety.  She could have written a master level essay if she hadn't had pressures.  However, add the pressure of time, even if it's 2 hours, and things did not go as well as we had hoped.

Anyhow..  I complained to the counselor about the behavior of the placement center staff.  Either she scored high enough to be placed in Eng-111 or she did not. Turns out she did score high enough for Eng-111 (that's Eng I Comp for folks outside North Carolina).  If she had registered for a remedial class based on the placement center staff's recommendation and not brought home the essay, I may not have known what transpired.  Our experience is additional proof that most remedial classes are BS cash cows.

I'm not against remedial education as I have read statements from high school graduates which were indecipherable.  If kids cannot write a 5-paragraph essay prior to graduating high school, why are they being graduated?  Why aren't we focusing on K-12?  If k-12 is effective at teaching, there will be no need for any remedial courses.  Of course, the educational system in the US doesn't want that.  If they did, they would fix the system.  But they don't.  They just complain that kids are stupid and lazy. They establish unobtainable metrics, which no school system can reach.  That drives out good teachers and makes students hate school.

I'm trying not to be political.  One of the best things that could happen to this country is to stop forcing education that doesn't work.  The Finnish system works and we know it.  Homeschoolers as well as a few public and private schools in the US, have adopted it.  Yet, as a country, we continue to plug away at substandard crap and call it education.  Why?  So the community college system can run in at the 11th hour & 59th minute to claim how their reformations saved the world??

Sorry about the rant.  I'm done.
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