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degree and school RECCS please
#11
(09-07-2021, 03:01 PM)dfrecore Wrote: Just an FYI, COSC has kind of the "worst of both worlds" in that they require 30cr of UL (EC) and 30cr of RA (TESU); they offset that with cost, but they also offset that with ease - they do not take NCCRS at all, and they only take ACE from specific providers (and ACTFL is not on that list).  So you are limited to get all of your UL credit from Study.com.  That's not terrible, but you are just more limited there.  It will definitely take you longer to get the degree than if you used TESU or EC.

I'm also not 100% certain that they will accept TECEP and/or UExcel exams as RA credit, so you'd need that confirmed prior to doing this degree.

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I'd also like to point out that this degree plan is outdated, and I know this because none of the DSST History exams listed is UL any longer (Soviet Union was downgraded on 2/1/21, Civil War and Vietnam were downgraded on 8/1/18) - so this is at LEAST 3 ½ years old, and no longer valid.  Just keep that in mind.
I see, I don't intend on choosing COSC but I was hoping a TESU degree plan would be somehow similar to that one. But now that doesn't seem the case at all, so thank you for clarifying!!

(09-07-2021, 03:10 PM)rachel83az Wrote: I'm on mobile right now, so I can't post links easily. However, if you check out the Gen Ed roadmap for TESU, there are links to the History and Psych plans. To get a double degree, you'd use your History courses for the electives of your Psych degree and your Psych courses for electives in your History degree. You might wind up needing slightly more than 120 total credits that way but I'm not completely sure.
Alright, so it's viceversa, I can either take History courses for electives for a Psych degree or Psych courses electives for a History degree. While I wait for a response from EC, I'll try to make a TESU degree plan. Thank you for explaining!

Also please let me know if you think sticking with a BALS at TESU is a better idea, I don't want to make a mistake. If EC accepts taking the language exams credits as non duplicative then I'll go for a BSL anyway, so it wouldn't be a problem for me getting a BALS at TESU either, I just thought that maybe for ROI/Value it'd be better double majoring (again, if I happen to choose TESU because of ACTFL rejection).
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#12
(09-07-2021, 03:28 PM)enantiodromia Wrote:
(09-07-2021, 03:01 PM)dfrecore Wrote: Just an FYI, COSC has kind of the "worst of both worlds" in that they require 30cr of UL (EC) and 30cr of RA (TESU); they offset that with cost, but they also offset that with ease - they do not take NCCRS at all, and they only take ACE from specific providers (and ACTFL is not on that list).  So you are limited to get all of your UL credit from Study.com.  That's not terrible, but you are just more limited there.  It will definitely take you longer to get the degree than if you used TESU or EC.

I'm also not 100% certain that they will accept TECEP and/or UExcel exams as RA credit, so you'd need that confirmed prior to doing this degree.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd also like to point out that this degree plan is outdated, and I know this because none of the DSST History exams listed is UL any longer (Soviet Union was downgraded on 2/1/21, Civil War and Vietnam were downgraded on 8/1/18) - so this is at LEAST 3 ½ years old, and no longer valid.  Just keep that in mind.
I see, I don't intend on choosing COSC but I was hoping a TESU degree plan would be somehow similar to that one. But now that doesn't seem the case at all, so thank you for clarifying!!

(09-07-2021, 03:10 PM)rachel83az Wrote: I'm on mobile right now, so I can't post links easily. However, if you check out the Gen Ed roadmap for TESU, there are links to the History and Psych plans. To get a double degree, you'd use your History courses for the electives of your Psych degree and your Psych courses for electives in your History degree. You might wind up needing slightly more than 120 total credits that way but I'm not completely sure.
Alright, so it's viceversa, I can either take History courses for electives for a Psych degree or Psych courses electives for a History degree. While I wait for a response from EC, I'll try to make a TESU degree plan. Thank you for explaining!

Also please let me know if you think sticking with a BALS at TESU is a better idea, I don't want to make a mistake. If EC accepts taking the language exams credits as non duplicative then I'll go for a BSL anyway, so it wouldn't be a problem for me getting a BALS at TESU either, I just thought that maybe for ROI/Value it'd be better double majoring (again, if I happen to choose TESU because of ACTFL rejection).

If you wanted to do ACTFL, then it wouldn't make sense to do a Psych or History degree, because you'd lose all those UL credits - the reason to get them is to knock out all/most of your 45cr of AoS including 15cr of UL; plus 15cr of Humanities and Hum/His/SocSci in the GE; plus 30cr of Free Electives.

If you want a specific major, then you'd want to revamp your plan, since you won't need all those ACTFL credits.  You can still take the exams, but you'd want to pare it down considerably.
TESU BSBA/HR 2018 - WVNCC BOG AAS 2017 - GGU Cert in Mgmt 2000
EXAMS: TECEP Tech Wrtg, Comp II, LA Math, PR, Computers  DSST Computers, Pers Fin  CLEP Mgmt, Mktg
COURSES: TESU Capstone  Study.com Pers Fin, Microecon, Stats  Ed4Credit Acct 2  PF Fin Mgmt  ALEKS Int & Coll Alg  Sophia Proj Mgmt The Institutes - Ins Ethics  Kaplan PLA
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#13
(09-07-2021, 05:19 PM)dfrecore Wrote:
Quote:If you wanted to do ACTFL, then it wouldn't make sense to do a Psych or History degree, because you'd lose all those UL credits - the reason to get them is to knock out all/most of your 45cr of AoS including 15cr of UL; plus 15cr of Humanities and Hum/His/SocSci in the GE; plus 30cr of Free Electives.

If you want a specific major, then you'd want to revamp your plan, since you won't need all those ACTFL credits.  You can still take the exams, but you'd want to pare it down considerably.
Right, but apart from EC, which we'll have to see if they accept all ACTFL credits (fingers crossed!), wouldn't TESU not allow me to fill up the AoS with one type of credit (ACTFL) for a BALS anyway, like @rachel83az said? My conclusion was that if I can't use all ACTFL credits for neither EC nor TESU I might as well go for double majoring at TESU.. Does that make any sense?
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#14
One or two courses from Coopersmith or the like would still be cheaper and faster than filling up your entire AOS with courses from Study.com/Coopersmith/etc.

If you want fast and cheap, a BALS with a Humanities concentration would be the way to go. If you would enjoy History/Psych by spending a little more, go for it. Specific degrees should give you more employment choices than a BALS but the increase in employment opportunities isn't always worth it for everyone.
In progress:
TESU - BA Computer Science; BSBA CIS; ASNSM Math & CS; ASBA

Completed:
Pierpont - AAS BOG
Sophia (so many), The Institutes (old), Study.com (5 courses)
ASU: Human Origins, Astronomy, Intro Health & Wellness, Western Civilization, Computer Appls & Info Technology, Intro Programming
Strayer: CIS175, CIS111, WRK100, MAT210
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#15
(09-07-2021, 05:38 PM)enantiodromia Wrote:
(09-07-2021, 05:19 PM)dfrecore Wrote:
Quote:If you wanted to do ACTFL, then it wouldn't make sense to do a Psych or History degree, because you'd lose all those UL credits - the reason to get them is to knock out all/most of your 45cr of AoS including 15cr of UL; plus 15cr of Humanities and Hum/His/SocSci in the GE; plus 30cr of Free Electives.

If you want a specific major, then you'd want to revamp your plan, since you won't need all those ACTFL credits.  You can still take the exams, but you'd want to pare it down considerably.
Right, but apart from EC, which we'll have to see if they accept all ACTFL credits (fingers crossed!), wouldn't TESU not allow me to fill up the AoS with one type of credit (ACTFL) for a BALS anyway, like @rachel83az said? My conclusion was that if I can't use all ACTFL credits for neither EC nor TESU I might as well go for double majoring at TESU.. Does that make any sense?

I know with 100% certainty that TESU will take those credits, and even how they will (people have reported on this forum what Spanish and German will come in as for all 4 exams).  The thing we don't know is if EC will bring in 4 different languages, and if all 4 exams will be non-duplicating (like, will they consider the 6cr of LL for the LPT to duplicate the 6cr of LL from the OPIc? Will they consider the 6cr of LL for the RPT to duplicate the 6cr of LL from the WPT?).  So that's what we're trying to find out from EC.
TESU BSBA/HR 2018 - WVNCC BOG AAS 2017 - GGU Cert in Mgmt 2000
EXAMS: TECEP Tech Wrtg, Comp II, LA Math, PR, Computers  DSST Computers, Pers Fin  CLEP Mgmt, Mktg
COURSES: TESU Capstone  Study.com Pers Fin, Microecon, Stats  Ed4Credit Acct 2  PF Fin Mgmt  ALEKS Int & Coll Alg  Sophia Proj Mgmt The Institutes - Ins Ethics  Kaplan PLA
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#16
(09-07-2021, 08:04 PM)dfrecore Wrote: I know with 100% certainty that TESU will take those credits, and even how they will (people have reported on this forum what Spanish and German will come in as for all 4 exams).  The thing we don't know is if EC will bring in 4 different languages, and if all 4 exams will be non-duplicating (like, will they consider the 6cr of LL for the LPT to duplicate the 6cr of LL from the OPIc? Will they consider the 6cr of LL for the RPT to duplicate the 6cr of LL from the WPT?).  So that's what we're trying to find out from EC.

Yes! Just recieved an e-mail from EC on this matter :
Quote:"I see that some ACTFL exams have been evaluated and recommended for credits by the American Council on Education (ACE).  Excelsior College may be able to accept the ACE credit recommendations, but the specifics of what may duplicate would have to be determined by the Evaluation Team as part of the application process.  You would need to create a free MyExcelsior account and apply to the Bachelor of Science in Liberal Arts degree to start the process; there is currently no application fee.  The application will provide you with an application review. If you have prior college-level credit, we'll estimate how many credits may transfer, and how many additional credits you'll need to complete your degree.  
 
To evaluate your prior coursework, we need to review official transcripts from all of your prior accredited colleges, including ACE.  Please request that your official transcripts be mailed to: Excelsior College, Office of the Registrar, 7 Columbia Circle, Albany, NY  12203-5159. We will also accept electronic transcripts if they are submitted through Credential Solutions / E-Script, Parchment, or the National Student Clearinghouse. 
 
Official transcripts must be sent to Excelsior College directly from the institution and the issuance date must be within three weeks. 
 
Please note that your application will remain valid for six months. If we don’t receive the necessary documents within that time frame, it will expire, and you will need to reapply."

Hmm.. I get that it needs to be determined by an Evaluation Team but, as you know, I have no prior credit, so I don't really understand what they'd evaluate in the first place.. Let me know what you think and whether I should go for EC and how, in that case, I can quickly find out whether they'll take the ACTFL exams credits as non-duplicating.

In the meantime, I've created a spreadsheet degree plan for a BALS in Humanities at TESU. After some more thinking, I came to the conclusion that a BALS would be better for me now instead of a BA in History&Psych. I've also included all expenses (including TOEFL and the Graduation fee) since that's an area I need to keep in consideration. Please let me know if there's anything wrong within this degree plan.

Another thing is that although I've never seen anyone post that here, I tried to broadly "schedule" each course, so I can visualize which exams should be taken by the end of each month. I'm putting that down here as well so I can recieve feedback; the issue is I'm afraid some courses might be too hard to be taken during the same month so please let me know if you think this plan seems do-able or if there's any month that seems way too material-heavy: take in consideration that I'm a HS student, I think I realistically have 4-5 hours to dedicate to these courses each day.

September Ancient Greek Philosophy (Sophia.org) + Intro to Ethics (Sophia.org)

October Intro to Religion (Sophia.org) + Intro to Sociology (Sophia.org) + Visual Communications (Sophia.org) + Developing effective teams (Sophia.org)

November Conflict Resolution (Sophia) + History of Western Art (Sophia.org)+ Technical Writing (TECEP)

December - Winter break (from 22th) Environmental Science (Study.com) + Intro to Astronomy (Study.com) + Presentation Skills (Study.com)

January - Winter break (to 7th) American Government (InstantCert) + English Comp I (TECEP)

February English Comp II (TECEP) Quantitative Literacy (CSMLearn)

March Intro to Biology (TECEP) + Death Investigation (TEEX)

April Latin I (TEL Learning) + OPIc Italian (ACTFL) + LPT,RPT,WPT Italian (ACTFL)

May and June are already exam-heavy months, therefore I'll be focusing on my school

June/July (Summer break) (turning 18 in July- the timing is phenomenal!!) LPT, RPT French (ACTFL)

August - Beginning of 12 weeks (16 CR) Term Info Literacy + A World of Art + Computer Concepts & Applications (TESU)

September American Cinema + Intro to Prior Learning Assessment (TESU)

October Capstone (TESU)

So for approx. $ 6857 I'll be graduating October 25/24 (2022) which is 1 year and a month from now: before even getting my italian HS diploma, which is beyond great 'cause this way I can spend my last HS year studying for the most feared exam in Italian history, which will take place in June/July 2023.

Anyway, thank you so so much for the exhaustive explanations and useful info !!
 
EDIT: I just realized that I've grouped the Sophia.org courses into 2 months  (considering we're already almost halfway done with September) instead of 3 (which is what I was expecting while degree planning) so that's a -$ 80 difference. On the other hand, taking 3 SDC exams in a 1 month period costs $ 250. So the difference is only -$20, making it $6837.


Attached Files
.pdf   TESU BALS Humanities - Sheet1.pdf (Size: 135.02 KB / Downloads: 11)
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#17
While others are the experts I am thinking that you will find Sophia to be very easy for you, you might be able to finish some of the courses in a couple days or few days rather than weeks.  Also, I have been reading the posts and asking questions on the XAMK free RA courses and I haven't seen anyone recommend those to you, I wonder if there is a reason this idea hasn't been suggested??
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#18
(09-09-2021, 06:33 PM)enantiodromia Wrote:
(09-07-2021, 08:04 PM)dfrecore Wrote: I know with 100% certainty that TESU will take those credits, and even how they will (people have reported on this forum what Spanish and German will come in as for all 4 exams).  The thing we don't know is if EC will bring in 4 different languages, and if all 4 exams will be non-duplicating (like, will they consider the 6cr of LL for the LPT to duplicate the 6cr of LL from the OPIc? Will they consider the 6cr of LL for the RPT to duplicate the 6cr of LL from the WPT?).  So that's what we're trying to find out from EC.

Yes! Just recieved an e-mail from EC on this matter :
Quote:"I see that some ACTFL exams have been evaluated and recommended for credits by the American Council on Education (ACE).  Excelsior College may be able to accept the ACE credit recommendations, but the specifics of what may duplicate would have to be determined by the Evaluation Team as part of the application process.  You would need to create a free MyExcelsior account and apply to the Bachelor of Science in Liberal Arts degree to start the process; there is currently no application fee.  The application will provide you with an application review. If you have prior college-level credit, we'll estimate how many credits may transfer, and how many additional credits you'll need to complete your degree.  
 
To evaluate your prior coursework, we need to review official transcripts from all of your prior accredited colleges, including ACE.  Please request that your official transcripts be mailed to: Excelsior College, Office of the Registrar, 7 Columbia Circle, Albany, NY  12203-5159. We will also accept electronic transcripts if they are submitted through Credential Solutions / E-Script, Parchment, or the National Student Clearinghouse. 
 
Official transcripts must be sent to Excelsior College directly from the institution and the issuance date must be within three weeks. 
 
Please note that your application will remain valid for six months. If we don’t receive the necessary documents within that time frame, it will expire, and you will need to reapply."

Hmm.. I get that it needs to be determined by an Evaluation Team but, as you know, I have no prior credit, so I don't really understand what they'd evaluate in the first place.. Let me know what you think and whether I should go for EC and how, in that case, I can quickly find out whether they'll take the ACTFL exams credits as non-duplicating.

In the meantime, I've created a spreadsheet degree plan for a BALS in Humanities at TESU. After some more thinking, I came to the conclusion that a BALS would be better for me now instead of a BA in History&Psych. I've also included all expenses (including TOEFL and the Graduation fee) since that's an area I need to keep in consideration. Please let me know if there's anything wrong within this degree plan.

Another thing is that although I've never seen anyone post that here, I tried to broadly "schedule" each course, so I can visualize which exams should be taken by the end of each month. I'm putting that down here as well so I can recieve feedback; the issue is I'm afraid some courses might be too hard to be taken during the same month so please let me know if you think this plan seems do-able or if there's any month that seems way too material-heavy: take in consideration that I'm a HS student, I think I realistically have 4-5 hours to dedicate to these courses each day.

September Ancient Greek Philosophy (Sophia.org) + Intro to Ethics (Sophia.org)

October Intro to Religion (Sophia.org) + Intro to Sociology (Sophia.org) + Visual Communications (Sophia.org) + Developing effective teams (Sophia.org)

November Conflict Resolution (Sophia) + History of Western Art (Sophia.org)+ Technical Writing (TECEP)

December - Winter break (from 22th) Environmental Science (Study.com) + Intro to Astronomy (Study.com) + Presentation Skills (Study.com)

January - Winter break (to 7th) American Government (InstantCert) + English Comp I (TECEP)

February English Comp II (TECEP) Quantitative Literacy (CSMLearn)

March Intro to Biology (TECEP) + Death Investigation (TEEX)

April Latin I (TEL Learning) + OPIc Italian (ACTFL) + LPT,RPT,WPT Italian (ACTFL)

May and June are already exam-heavy months, therefore I'll be focusing on my school

June/July (Summer break) (turning 18 in July- the timing is phenomenal!!) LPT, RPT French (ACTFL)

August - Beginning of 12 weeks (16 CR) Term Info Literacy + A World of Art + Computer Concepts & Applications (TESU)

September American Cinema + Intro to Prior Learning Assessment (TESU)

October Capstone (TESU)

So for approx. $ 6857 I'll be graduating October 25/24 (2022) which is 1 year and a month from now: before even getting my italian HS diploma, which is beyond great 'cause this way I can spend my last HS year studying for the most feared exam in Italian history, which will take place in June/July 2023.

Anyway, thank you so so much for the exhaustive explanations and useful info !!
 
EDIT: I just realized that I've grouped the Sophia.org courses into 2 months  (considering we're already almost halfway done with September) instead of 3 (which is what I was expecting while degree planning) so that's a -$ 80 difference. On the other hand, taking 3 SDC exams in a 1 month period costs $ 250. So the difference is only -$20, making it $6837.

FWIW, TESU does allow you to get 2 degrees. So, if you decide later that you also want History/Psych, and you have the money to do so, you're allowed to return for that. TESU would count the BALS as one degree and History/Psych as one degree with two Areas of Study. You'd already have the 16 credits taken care of, so I think you'd just need a new capstone (maybe) and to bring in whatever History/Psych courses would be needed. You might not even need a second capstone, though. I'm not sure.

If you're devoting 4-5 hours per day to Sophia courses, you should be able to do the ones you've planned in a single month. Sophia courses are like one long open-book exam. They are nothing like what you've ever done before.

If you've done Algebra in school already, I would do Sophia's Algebra instead of CSM Learn. For someone who already knows at least basic Algebra, the course can be completed in 1-2 days. Of course, if you have dyscalculia, feel free to take CSM Learn.

Don't take Environmental Science at Study.com. Instead, take Environmental Science at Sophia. Much easier and cheaper.

The 1-credit courses "The Essentials of Managing Conflict" and "Developing Effective Teams" at Sophia can each be completed in 2-3 hours or less. You might not need them, but you might as well take them while you have an active Sophia subscription. Take everything that you can during your 1-2 month membership. I count 15-20 courses (skipping business, comp sci, English Comp, and Public Speaking). That's 45-60 credits there. Several people here have seriously done this much at Sophia before. It's always better to wind up with a few credits over than to be a few credits under. Especially for your plan.

Unfortunately, you cannot take the TECEPs until you turn 18. You also cannot start the capstone until you have at least 100 credits toward your degree. What you'll want to do is apply to TESU the day after you turn 18. Send in all of the credits that you have up until this point. For the plan you have outlined right now, 121 credits minus the 16 credit term minus 9 credits of TECEPs is 96. If you do both Art History classes at Sophia, instead of just one, that's 99 credits (and it should make TESU's ART-100 even easier). Take US History I and/or II and you'll have 100+ credits. These courses will get pushed down to the unused portion of your degree later, but that's okay!

So, now you've applied to TESU in July. Sign up for the three TECEPs for the August term. The English Comp TECEPs should require very little study on your part. I'm not sure about BIO-101 but it's probably similar. Taking one exam a week in August should be fairly reasonable. You'll start your 16-credit term in September. Your TECEP credits might not have posted yet, but that's why you did a few extra classes at Sophia. 

For the 16-credit-term, a term at TESU is defined as "classes that start in the same month". You will need to start all classes at once, not in August/September/October as you have listed. Once a course starts you can often finish much of the work ahead of time, but they will still all need to start at the same time. You would start them all in September. Then in the first week you'd finish most of Info Literacy (leaving just short weekly discussion posts that need to be completed) and PLA-100. Do the weekly discussion posts for the other classes that have them. In the second week, take CIS-107 exam and you can probably finish much of American Cinema and/or A World of Art. Continue doing weekly discussion posts, as needed. (I think these are usually 200 words or less.) From the third week on, you'll mainly focus on the capstone and the discussion posts. American Cinema and A World of Art both have final papers but these should be pretty short and easy to complete.

If you check the syllabus for American Cinema, it has a list of movies that you're supposed to watch for class and another list of movies to pick one for your final paper. I would suggest that you start watching the movies for class now so that you can see each one at least twice by the time that you start. This should make it easier to write about them when the time comes. You'll also have more time to decide which movie you'll be writing your final paper on.

If you start your 16 credit term in September, you'll be done in November (or December/January if you have to file a capstone extension). This will give you a graduation date in either March or June: https://www.tesu.edu/current-students/gr...nformation

(09-09-2021, 07:26 PM)k-k-k-katy Wrote: While others are the experts I am thinking that you will find Sophia to be very easy for you, you might be able to finish some of the courses in a couple days or few days rather than weeks.  Also, I have been reading the posts and asking questions on the XAMK free RA courses and I haven't seen anyone recommend those to you, I wonder if there is a reason this idea hasn't been suggested??

XAMK is mostly health/fitness and business classes. https://www.xamk.fi/en/openstudies/ This doesn't sound like what enantiodromia would want to take, though I could be mistaken. It would only be about $200 (foreign credit evaluation fee at ACEI) for as many courses as you can take at XAMK. But, with so many credits coming from the ACTFL exams, it's probably not necessary.
In progress:
TESU - BA Computer Science; BSBA CIS; ASNSM Math & CS; ASBA

Completed:
Pierpont - AAS BOG
Sophia (so many), The Institutes (old), Study.com (5 courses)
ASU: Human Origins, Astronomy, Intro Health & Wellness, Western Civilization, Computer Appls & Info Technology, Intro Programming
Strayer: CIS175, CIS111, WRK100, MAT210
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#19
Take your time to formulate your "plan". The earliest you can graduate at TESU is AFTER your high school graduation and earliest to apply is after 18 years of age. They require either a high school equivalent such as the GED or similar and, if you are required, an English language test, etc. TESU https://www.tesu.edu/admissions/apply-in...al-student and https://www.tesu.edu/admissions/undergrad-admissions

So, as per my previous info. Complete the high school courses as those are graded, these ACE/NCCRS credits are not, you just need 70% to pass the courses. I would also try to shoot for 3 classes/month vs the two you have, as some of these are short and sweet, you can probably finish them on a weekend. You need to invest in a second monitor for multi-tasking and for open book quizzes/exams for Sophia/TEEX courses.

In fact, the easiest way to get things done is to "double up/overlap" courses. So, if you're taking some courses at your Italian school, take the same courses at Sophia or MS/CLEP. You can take the exams after your course is done. For example, if you're taking Intro to computers. You can take the Sophia.org Intro to IT or the MS/CLEP exam at the same time for preview/review.
In Progress: Walden MBA | TESU BA Biology & Computer Science
Graduate Certificate: Global Management & Entrepreneurship, ASU (Freebie)

Completed: TESU ASNSM Biology, BSBA (ACBSP Accredited 2017)
Universidad Isabel I: ENEB MBA, Big Data & BI, Digital Marketing & E-Commerce
Certs: 6Sigma/Lean/Scrum, ITIL | Cisco/CompTIA/MTA | Coursera/Edx/Udacity

The Basic Approach | Plans | DegreeForum Community Supported Wiki
~Note~ Read/Review forum posts & Wiki Links to Sample Degree Plans
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#20
RE:  XAMK, yes, that makes so much sense when she has the chance at all those language credits.  I noticed OP was going to take Latin at TEL and the XAMK Video Game Creation course(s) came to my mind as an option to earn the RA credit for about the same price (and possibly faster bc self-paced).  My study partner thinks those would be really fun to fill out a few extra courses (not sure how the free electives are working now with the new rules for L.A. but I think we have more leeway than we used to) and also get the RA credits.  OP is on a straighter track than we are, maybe we'll see her at the finish line Smile.
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