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discussion about general education as it relates to CS education...and such
#1
Not sure if this answers your question, or if you only care about getting credits but most low tier colleges generally have garbage curricula when it comes to computer science stuff. This is where free MOOCs like EdX, Coursera, Udacity, and Udemy are superior to traditional institutions. You can learn a lot of material on your own through MOOCs - better than what would be offered at a community college or average to low tier college where the instructors may teach outdated methodologies or concepts. Look into Harvard's CS50x Intro to Computer Science course where you do use C, but get an overview of programming languages like python, javascript, ruby, and so forth. It's an extremely popular course and it's a 1st year course taken by CS major and non-CS majors alike. If you do want to make a career out of computer science know that you can and probably should teach a lot of it on your own and that the CS field is a very lucrative one given the tremendous shortage of qualified programmers and developers.

Also, if you're looking to get a CS degree - there are better institutions to do it i.e. Harvard Extension or Oregon State University.

Keep in mind that in CS, a good institution will teach you quality and relevant engineering concepts something that the more established and known programs have a reputation for.

You can, however, teach a lot on your own: $200K for a computer science degree? Or these free online classes? | InfoWorld

and here's a good list of courses that can fill different requirements.

If you want to work in a place like Silicon Valley, you don't need a college degree to make a starting salary that is over $100,000 a year, and there are bootcamps (hackreactor.com or appacademy.com or theodinproject.com) that teach you the practical technical skills that companies want. A bachelor's degree does not typically do that and you'll need to develop your own portfolio/side learning to become a good programmer or developer.

The nice thing about CS is that the field cares about proficiency than where you went. If you know how to do something you'll get a good job that pays well - and they are proving that you don't need a bachelor's degree to be successful and where you may likely not be so with low return on investment for 95% of college degrees. Indeed, they are showing BS is truly BS in all sense of the word.
#2
KittenMittens Wrote:If you want to work in a place like Silicon Valley, you don't need a college degree to make a starting salary that is over $100,000 a year, and there are bootcamps (hackreactor.com or appacademy.com or theodinproject.com) that teach you the practical technical skills that companies want. A bachelor's degree does not typically do that and you'll need to develop your own portfolio/side learning to become a good programmer or developer.

While some people have been successful with the boot camp approach, there have also been a lot of suckers that bought into the bootcamp sales pitch and have lost a lot of money.

While I agree with you that computer degrees lack practical experience, they seem to be a more strict requirement for developers and programmers than for other areas of IT.
Andy

---------------------------------

TESC - BSBA: CIS

Current Degree Plan
Complete:  TECEP Eng Comp I, Marriage and Family, Strategic Management, Networking, Computer Concepts, Liberal Math, Tech Writing, Managerial Accounting DSST MIS, Cybersecurity Study.com Macroeconomics
Remaining:  Waiting for credits to process

#3
KittenMittens Wrote:Not sure if this answers your question, or if you only care about getting credits but most low tier colleges generally have garbage curricula when it comes to computer science stuff. This is where free MOOCs like EdX, Coursera, Udacity, and Udemy are superior to traditional institutions. You can learn a lot of material on your own through MOOCs - better than what would be offered at a community college or average to low tier college where the instructors may teach outdated methodologies or concepts. Look into Harvard's CS50x Intro to Computer Science course where you do use C, but get an overview of programming languages like python, javascript, ruby, and so forth. It's an extremely popular course and it's a 1st year course taken by CS major and non-CS majors alike. If you do want to make a career out of computer science know that you can and probably should teach a lot of it on your own and that the CS field is a very lucrative one given the tremendous shortage of qualified programmers and developers.

Also, if you're looking to get a CS degree - there are better institutions to do it i.e. Harvard Extension or Oregon State University.

Keep in mind that in CS, a good institution will teach you quality and relevant engineering concepts something that the more established and known programs have a reputation for.

You can, however, teach a lot on your own: $200K for a computer science degree? Or these free online classes? | InfoWorld

and here's a good list of courses that can fill different requirements.

If you want to work in a place like Silicon Valley, you don't need a college degree to make a starting salary that is over $100,000 a year, and there are bootcamps (hackreactor.com or appacademy.com or theodinproject.com) that teach you the practical technical skills that companies want. A bachelor's degree does not typically do that and you'll need to develop your own portfolio/side learning to become a good programmer or developer.

The nice thing about CS is that the field cares about proficiency than where you went. If you know how to do something you'll get a good job that pays well - and they are proving that you don't need a bachelor's degree to be successful and where you may likely not be so with low return on investment for 95% of college degrees. Indeed, they are showing BS is truly BS in all sense of the word.

I disagree, most candidates in IT are either passed on for not having a degree, but they have experience/certifications or passed on for no experience/certifications but a degree. In order to be a serious candidate you need to have both.
AAS in Environmental Safety & Security Technologies from TESC - Completed 2014
and BA Emergency & Disaster Mgmt at American Military University with a minor in Security Management - Completed


Completed:
FEMA: 20 credit hours, B&M: 33 credit hours, AARTS: 14 credit hours, certifications
ALEKS: Intermediate Algebra, College Algebra
CLEP: Analyzing & Interpret. Literature CLEP - 66, English Composition Modular CLEP - 58, American Government CLEP - 58, Social Sciences & History CLEP - 63
DSST: Intro to Computing DSST - 452
Straighterline: Business Ethics (88%), Criminal Justice (94%), World Religions (93%), Cultural Anthropology (92%), Intro to Sociology (94%)
TECEP: CIS 107, ENGL 102, PSY 270, BIO 208
#4
ajs1976 Wrote:While some people have been successful with the boot camp approach, there have also been a lot of suckers that bought into the bootcamp sales pitch and have lost a lot of money.

While I agree with you that computer degrees lack practical experience, they seem to be a more strict requirement for developers and programmers than for other areas of IT.

Yeah there are a lot of boot camps that popped up to try to fill the demand for these types of programs, and a lot of them are dicy. The ones with excellent feedback, reputation, and connections are hackreactor, appacademy, hackbright (for women only), hackerschool, or Coding Dojo with around ~98-100% job placement. They are competitive to get into, but if a person is motivated, and interested it can be done to get in.

Why Google doesn't care about college degrees, in 5 quotes | VentureBeat | Education | by Gregory Ferenstein

The Ultimate Guide to Coding Bootcamps: The Most Selective Bootcamps | SkilledUp

https://www.coursereport.com/

In Silicon Valley and San Francisco, they don't care too much about having a college degree and their culture is very based on practical skills. I would actually say that in IT, at least on the West Coast, they don't care as much about having a college degree, though I think a CS degree can certainly give you an advantage if you come from a good institution, but now with the proliferation of MOOCS with excellent programs, a lot of it can be done on your own time and for free. My nephew who works for SalesForce for instance, an established cloud computing company, is a network engineer and never finished college and makes well over six figures in the Bay. He did do some certificates but that's about it.

I think in things like system and network administration that matters more.
#5
defscarlett Wrote:I disagree, most candidates in IT are either passed on for not having a degree, but they have experience/certifications or passed on for no experience/certifications but a degree. In order to be a serious candidate you need to have both.

In my 16 years of IT experience, I've found that without a strong peer network a degree is mandatory. For consideration in upper level positions, it is mandatory even with a strong peer network in most companies.

When I hire for senior level development positions, I typically prefer a degree in accounting and work experience in development. I've found this combination to be the best fit for the companies I work for. My segment is manufacturing, my requirements would be completely different if I were producing commercial software. For technical positions, I don't value the a degree highly myself -- but getting it past HR and to me if it's not in there is tough.

So short answer is, yes a degree is important. No it's not enough by itself to get you a job -- it will help your resume get past HR and to my desk.
Currently studying for: Still deciding.

Done!
2020 - Harvard Extension School - ALM IT Management 
2019 - Harvard Extension School - Graduate Certificate Data Science
2018 - Harvard Extension School - Graduate Certificate Cyber Security
2016 - WGU - MBA Mgmt & Strategy
2015 - Thomas Edison State College - BSBA Marketing & CIS
#6
defscarlett Wrote:I disagree, most candidates in IT are either passed on for not having a degree, but they have experience/certifications or passed on for no experience/certifications but a degree. In order to be a serious candidate you need to have both.

I never had a degree in data science nor a regionally accredited US degree (I had econ/poli sci from India but I did an immersive 3 month boot camp from NYC it and it helped me land a job making north of 6 figures a year. All of my cohort ended up doing about the same with some who had no college degree to some that were in grad programs. A CS degree is nice to have, but it's not the end all be all. From a good program/institution it can prepare you in certain ways, but the types of students going there are also highly motivated. More importantly, most CS programs in the country don't really prepare practical programming skills that companies want hence the proliferation of short, intense 80 hour boot camps that teach you some theory (ex. algorithms, data structures, call backs, and methods), but more of an emphasis on practical part that colleges tend to (wrongfully) dismiss. Does a 3 month 80 hour boot camp replace the traditional CS degree? No, there's a lot of advanced material that a CS degree teaches. But a CS degree when you examine it is not a 4 year degree - when you cut out the fluff i.e. gen eds and b.s. lib arts classes, it can be done in 1.5 - 2 years "comfortably" and when you look at how slow college goes, a boot camp can get you up to speed. Of course, you have to work hard but the rewards are incredible.

https://www.quora.com/Is-coding-boot-cam...e-worth-it
Data Talks: Programming Bootcamp or CS Degree
Coding Bootcamps Presented As "College Alternative" - Slashdot
Programming boot camp or 4-year college CS degree? : cscareerquestions
Warning: A computer science degree may be a waste of your time and money
Survey: Coding bootcamps actually work. For the graduates, at least | VentureBeat | Dev | by Gregory Ferenstein
#7
I just wanted to add some hard stats to the discussion. I don't have an opinion one way or the other.

From the Bureau of Labor Statistics (2012). Link below.

[TABLE="class: MsoTableGrid"]
[TR]
[TD] [SUB][FONT=&amp]Occupations[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 686, colspan: 4"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]Percent of workers who reported needing the credential[/FONT][/SUB]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]Selected computer[/FONT][/SUB]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]Postsecondary [/FONT][/SUB]
[SUB][FONT=&amp]certificate[/FONT][/SUB]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]High school [/FONT][/SUB]
[SUB][FONT=&amp]diploma or [/FONT][/SUB]
[SUB][FONT=&amp]equivalent[/FONT][/SUB]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]Associate’s [/FONT][/SUB]
[SUB][FONT=&amp]degree[/FONT][/SUB]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]Bachelor’s [/FONT][/SUB]
[SUB][FONT=&amp]Degree[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]Web administrators[/FONT][/SUB]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]26[/FONT][/SUB]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]0[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]9[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]39[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]Computer user support specialists[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]15[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]12[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]18[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]29[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]Web developers[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]13[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]10[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]20[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]43[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]Computer systems engineers/architects[/FONT][/SUB]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]13[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]0[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]0[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]61[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]Computer Programmers[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]11[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]6[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]5[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[TD="width: 172"] [SUB][FONT=&amp]78[/FONT][/SUB][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


http://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2012/winter/art01.pdf
CLEPS Passed: 10 DSST Passed: 11 TECEPS: 1

PrLoko-isms
Don't waste time by trying to save time. The only sure way to complete your degree is to knock out credits quickly and efficiently.

Don't let easiness bite you in the rear. Know your endgame (where you want to be) and plan backward from there. Your education is a means to an end.

Be honest professionally, socially and academically. There are people (especially little ones) who look up to you and they're going by your example.

Be proud. Whether you're an Engineer or Fast Food worker, there is honor and dignity in hard work.

Picking on people weaker than you only proves that you are a weak person.


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