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(12-28-2024, 05:08 PM)Stonybeach Wrote: (12-28-2024, 04:58 PM)sanantone Wrote: (12-28-2024, 04:35 PM)Stonybeach Wrote: Thanks, Duneranger, for chiming in. Commenting on "diagnose and treat," I would add, that leads to good patient outcomes and patient satisfaction. Titles and degrees are not part of the equation that "really matters" in healthcare delivery. In the over 25 years of healthcare delivery, I really don't remember ever being asked by my patients where I went to school or what degree I hold. Colleagues don't seem to care. It really comes down to patient outcomes!
Regarding training, I recommend a hospital-based university with a hybrid or on-campus program. I had zero problems obtaining solid clinical rotations. You really can't beat the talent and resources this type of program offers.
For the OP, I get it; you want a doctorate for "personal satisfaction," and there is nothing wrong with that! After completing the DHA program, it seems the healthcare sector cares more about years of experience in leadership and/or management positions than the degree. I know a CNO with a BSN because he has years of relevant management experience. I really think the MBA will provide some utility and return on investment overall.
Some organization crunched the statistics, and low-ranked/unranked MBAs have a negative return on investment. At least WGU can be super cheap if you work fast. However, if one is not using the MBA for a job, is a competency-based degree really worth it? After all, you're teaching yourself. There are free and low-cost business courses and books.
As I said previously, I really don't know anything about WGU CBE MBA, and quite frankly, at first glance, it sounds subpar. There was a post about a $3,000 MBA that looks solid, but it was offered by a school with a campus in NH and Greece. I wonder if that program is still available for that price. There are undoubtedly many online MBA programs to choose from that are reasonably priced and from top-notch schools. My only regret was getting a master's in management with a specialty and not the general MBA, which I feel has much more utility. Then again, it was 100 percent covered by employer tuition reimbursement. It would be interesting to see if the statistics factor in employer tuition assistance and military VA funding.
You're mostly teaching yourself in most online programs, but you're even more on your own in CBE programs. They're great for people who already have the knowledge and experience and just need to check the box. I've never been in a WGU program, but I did a CBE program at a community college with the same model.
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(12-28-2024, 04:53 PM)Stonybeach Wrote: (12-28-2024, 04:44 PM)Duneranger Wrote: (12-28-2024, 04:35 PM)Stonybeach Wrote: Thanks, Duneranger, for chiming in. Commenting on "diagnose and treat," I would add, that leads to good patient outcomes and patient satisfaction. Titles and degrees are not part of the equation that "really matters" in healthcare delivery. In the over 25 years of healthcare delivery, I really don't remember ever being asked by my patients where I went to school or what degree I hold. Colleagues don't seem to care. It really comes down to patient outcomes!
Regarding training, I recommend a hospital-based university with a hybrid or on-campus program. I had zero problems obtaining solid clinical rotations. You really can't beat the talent and resources this type of program offers.
Yeah I actually did a post-grad fellowship (3750 more clinical hours) which was helpful. None of the MDs asked if I had a DNP and I just did my own thing. No patient's ever asked or cared either.
My program was in-person at a state school.
You CRNAs rock!
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Answer: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537317/
Nitroprusside is one of the drugs that can evoke this too. It can also cause cyanide toxicity.
Methylene blue is also used for refractory ACE-I and ARB induced vasoplegic hypotension when phenylephrine and ephedrine are ineffective. Remember to hold your ACE-I and ARBs before surgery. MANY people don't and it is a pain to deal with in the OR.
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01-22-2025, 06:30 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2025, 07:00 AM by eLearner.)
(12-27-2024, 10:02 PM)Stonybeach Wrote: Don't worry! It has been beaten into the RN, NP and PAs head not to use the title "doctor" in clinical practice. It is okay in the academic world but not the clinic and those that have, have had discipline hearings, fines, etc. This really should be common knowledge, and thanks for bringing it up. That is why I specifically mentioned the term "post-nominals," which nurses tend to have a very long list after their name.
This is why the Nursing and PA disciplines should have never ventured into the Doctorate waters. "Doctor Nurse" just sounds ridiculous, I know that's not the naming convention, but the thought is there and it's weird. Same thing for PA's. The title of Nurse is good enough, and greater prestige could've been added organically by adding more of the challenge that higher level healthcare professionals have with sciences and disease pathology instead of going the Doctoral path the profession chose. To me, the DNP is a backdoor attempt that with some programs is actually done well, but with many others is a waste and breeds Dunning Kruger effect.
(12-28-2024, 02:41 PM)Duneranger Wrote: (12-27-2024, 10:08 PM)sanantone Wrote: (12-27-2024, 10:02 PM)Stonybeach Wrote: Don't worry! It has been beaten into the NP and PAs head not to use the title "doctor" in clinical practice. It is okay in the academic world but not the clinic and those that have, have had discipline hearings, fines, etc.
Then, I should probably report a practice I used to go to. LOL. I knew I was going to see a nurse practitioner, but I thought the clinic was headed by a physician. It turns out that he has a PhD. On his clinic's website, he uses the doctor title. I had to dig to find out what his PhD is in: nursing. I still don't know where he went to school, and some of the practitioner websites have MD behind his name. One of his NPs also missed an obvious diagnosis, which didn't help my bias against Walden MSNs. MDs miss diagnoses all day every day. I have seen some absolute F-ups working in the field which resulted in grave consequences. There are some shoddy PA/NP programs, but I would not broadbrush huge swathes of APPs based on one anecdote experience.
FWIW I have been a provider for years and think using the term "doctor" in a healthcare setting is poor form. Some states have laws concerning this. In academia or research, using doctor is fine.
To the OP, as someone who works in a very similar field to yours, skip the doctorate. It wont help you. If your employer will pay for a DNP or something similar, then fine.
But all of these other applied doctorates are a WASTE of time. No one cares and you won't get paid more as a provider.
All they care about is if you can PRESCRIBE and DIAGNOSE. That's it.
MDs have failed me many times, so I agree.
For the title of Doctor, to me the appropriateness has to do with the profession. Aside from an MD, in a healthcare setting, I would expect a person to be called Doctor if they are a PsyD or PhD in Psychology (especially if they are licensed Psychologists), or a Doctor of Mental Health simply because they are the top-level in the field of talk therapy/general mental health and would unlikely to ever be in the same room as an MD when care is being performed.
In hospitals and clinics, I never saw anyone have a problem with calling a Psychologist "Doctor" even the MDs did. Becoming a Psychologist is a long and very difficult thing to do and I think people have over the years come to understand that and are more willing to give it that respect than in the past. But Nurses and PAs are not at the top-level of medical care, the MD is, and they are often going to be in the same vicinity as an MD where calling them Doctor would cause confusion for patients.
I see no reason for a Nurse to get a Doctorate in Nursing unless it is a practice-based degree program for hands-on training that is advanced and will increase their knowledge and skills to better help patients, but even then the title is still weird. For PAs, they chose to be assistants to Doctors, they shouldn't be seeking the title of Doctor unless they get it through finishing medical school.
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