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will UK unis accept a degree mostly from non-traditional sources?
#11
(08-26-2022, 01:34 PM)rvm Wrote: My daughter wants to attend a university in the UK.  She was homeschooled and didn't take the SAT or ACT.  She doesn't do well on timed tests because she experiences dyslexia and dyscalculia.  I mentioned this because almost every university we've researched in the UK is asking for the SAT or ACT scores unless the student has one year of RA credit from a US uni, an associate degree or, as you probably guessed, a bachelor degree.

I'm sorry but I don't think it's wise to send your daughter to the UK for her UG because 

1) The UK system is very different from the US system. Most of their UG modules are based on timed test. You can spend 4 months studying for 1 subject, and take 1 final exam to determined your grade at the end of the term.

2) It's a lot of $$ for an international student to go to the UK to study for 3 years (include cost of living etc) also UK going through an electricity crises atm

3) You deep dive into your major right from the get go - so your daughter really needs to know what she wants.

4) Very rarely do modules 'transfer' to other universities in the UK.

5) As mentioned by another user, study time don't count towards the 5 year residency to become a permeant resident (IDL) but it does count towards the 10 year IDL iirc, you do however, get a 2 year visa after you graduate to find a job and work in the UK. only after you've found a job and start working does the 5 year residency time start. 

6) A lot cheaper to just finish a US bach degree, then go to UK for a masters and find work there after.
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#12
(08-29-2022, 06:52 PM)sarahmac Wrote: Without wanting to sound unkind, I am genuinely not sure a UK university is her best option. The entirety of the UK education system is based on timed exams.
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Thank you for your reply, Sarah!

Though I was in IT for many years, I now teach people how to process their emotions and put them in their proper places so I don't see your advice as unkind.  It's extremely beneficial and I am very grateful!


(08-29-2022, 06:52 PM)sarahmac Wrote: When we finish high school at 16 we take 8-10 classes worth of written exams (with generally 2-3 final exam papers per class, each of which is 2-ish hours long). Pre-university from 16-18 is more of the same: 3-4 courses, each consisting of 4-6 classes, each of which requires multiple timed hand-written exam papers. Though the exams get longer (3 hours). These are the exams that are worth college credit in the US.

This is how most university modules are examined too, and because British kids have been through this system they are expected to be very practiced at writing essays and long-format answers and proofs in timed conditions. No multiple-choice tests, not much graded homework, just one handwritten final exam in a proctored exam hall setting that is usually essay or long answer-based (or proof-based if studying a mathematics-related subject). Occasionally some classes will have a midterm, but it isn't that common.

If timed exams are something she struggles with, it would sort of be like setting her up to do badly knowing that this education system doesn't suit her. Allowances are of course made for dyslexic students, they often get extra time and may be allowed to type the exam, but dyslexic Brits have still been through this education system up until the point of starting uni - and so have intensively practiced coping with their dyslexia in this system if that makes sense?
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Yes, that makes sense and is very good to know.  


(08-29-2022, 06:52 PM)sarahmac Wrote: If you have the money to support her, and her goal is to study in the UK or Europe, but not necessarily at a UK or European uni, maybe look into American colleges in the UK/Europe? There are quite a few and they follow the US educational style while still giving her that experience overseas.
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We were unaware of American colleges in the UK or other countries in Europe.  Something to definitely investigate as that sounds like an excellent option. 

I have a friend whose son is in his second year at the University of Amsterdam.  He and my daughter have discussed his experiences.  She's concerned Amsterdam may not be the best choice for her.  Maybe will get to find out as we have a trip planned for next year.

(09-01-2022, 02:03 AM)debrag Wrote: UK uni's don't do 'alt-credit' as such. IB, A-level, BTEC, ACCESS, T-levels (new), Advanced Highers, are the general entry requirements. AP, ACT, SAT for US students.
.

I'm familiar with IB & A-Levels as we've done a bit of research however we need to learn more.  What are BTEC, ACCESS, T-levels, and Advanced Highers?

Not to dispute you:  for the unis we've investigated thus far, their websites indicate they will accept AP, ACT, SAT or associate degree or one year at an American college or university for American students.


(09-01-2022, 02:03 AM)debrag Wrote: A top-up degree needs: foundation degree, HND, BTEC, Associate Degree, DipHE etc. There are not many top-up degrees and are usually subject specific.
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What are HND, DipHE and top-up degrees?

Thank you!


(09-01-2022, 02:03 AM)debrag Wrote: If she can do an Access course as an international student online she could get in for 1st year.
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Would you share more on this?  Is this a single class, or set of classes, that she would take at her chosen uni in the UK and if she performs to acceptable standards, it would count toward her admission and degree?


(09-01-2022, 02:03 AM)debrag Wrote: The Open University doesn't ask for qualifications and is online. Start in 1st year unless have RA credits.
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Is the website:  https://www.open.ac.uk/ ?
Robin
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~ Slowly collecting credits from a variety of sources. Almost finished with my baccalaureate degree.
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#13
(09-15-2022, 07:29 PM)rvm Wrote:
(09-01-2022, 02:03 AM)debrag Wrote: UK uni's don't do 'alt-credit' as such. IB, A-level, BTEC, ACCESS, T-levels (new), Advanced Highers, are the general entry requirements. AP, ACT, SAT for US students.
.

I'm familiar with IB & A-Levels as we've done a bit of research however we need to learn more.  What are BTEC, ACCESS, T-levels, and Advanced Highers?

Not to dispute you:  for the unis we've investigated thus far, their websites indicate they will accept AP, ACT, SAT or associate degree or one year at an American college or university for American students.


(09-01-2022, 02:03 AM)debrag Wrote: A top-up degree needs: foundation degree, HND, BTEC, Associate Degree, DipHE etc. There are not many top-up degrees and are usually subject specific.
.
What are HND, DipHE and top-up degrees?

Thank you!


(09-01-2022, 02:03 AM)debrag Wrote: If she can do an Access course as an international student online she could get in for 1st year.
.
Would you share more on this?  Is this a single class, or set of classes, that she would take at her chosen uni in the UK and if she performs to acceptable standards, it would count toward her admission and degree?


(09-01-2022, 02:03 AM)debrag Wrote: The Open University doesn't ask for qualifications and is online. Start in 1st year unless have RA credits.
.
Is the website:  https://www.open.ac.uk/ ?

Yes that is the Open Uni website. This wouldn't work if she is after residence as it's online.

Access is a qualification for those without the required qualifications to get into Uni. It is a year long course and have different subject areas (science, nursing, medicine, etc.) Just one company - Courses - full listing (distancelearningcentre.com)

Advanced Highers are qualifications in Scotland only.
BTEC, T-Levels, A-Levels etc are all further education qualifications - Education in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

Top-up degrees are if you have done the first 2 years of a degree, so 240 credits, like a DipHE already. Not every degree does this.

It's good you have found uni's that accept associate degrees, I've never looked for into it to be honest. All I know is ACT/SATS for 1st year entry.

Best thing is to complete an associate degrees in the subject she wants to do in the UK.
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#14
(09-16-2022, 04:42 AM)debrag Wrote: Best thing is to complete an associate degrees in the subject she wants to do in the UK.

I do disagree with this as a blanket rule. The associates in this case is being used as a replacement for our two years of post-HS A Level study.

Rather than an associates in the subject, the associates should attempt to cover the prerequisites for her chosen degree that would normally be covered at A Level (or during a foundation year). For neuroscience, for example, the prerequisites are the same at most universities. Of the three total A Levels, at least two should be selected from Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Mathematics (the Core Sciences). Some universities will take Geography, Psychology as "backup" sciences (Manchester, among others). This was also the advice specifically given by Durham, Cardiff and Warwick to an American friend of mine. They said do not bother with an associates in his chosen subject, the level will be too low anyway. Make sure you have the equivalent to A Level Maths covered as part of the associates, along with at least one other hard science. This is their general rule.

I get the impression from the poster's posts thus far that his daughter had not told him UK degrees have prerequisites. Someone going to study Sociology would have taken very different prerequisite A Levels (three of History, Sociology, Politics, Geography, Pyschology, often English) to someone studying NeuroSci... and the same will be expected from an associate's degree holder. You cannot wait until your associates is done to choose.

If she has an associates, but not the prerequisites, I can see her being forced into a foundation year anyway.

--

For the dad in the thread:

Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Mathematics are not single classes. A Level Maths, for example, is approximately Calc 1-3 and two electives: Stats 1 and 2, Discrete Math 1 and 2, or Mechanics 1 and 2. A Level Biology is, approximately, College Bio I and II, Microbiology and Genetics (the first three are lab-based). So on and so forth for the others. I say approximately because the Core 4 maths paper always has at least one diff eq problem. Psychology A Level has more flexibility with different exam boards including different classes, but it has 4 classes as a rule (see here: https://www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/psycholo...t-a-glance).

If I was planning an associates degree from scratch for an American who had not yet decided between neurosci and psychology I would include:

College Bio I - 4
College Bio II - 4
Microbiology - 4
Genetics - 3
Precalc - 3 (if not taken in HS)
Calc 1 - 3
Calc 2 - 3
Calc 3 - 3
Stats 1 - 3
Discrete Math 1 - 3
Intro to Psychology - 3
Human Growth and Development - 3
Research Methods in Psychology - 3 or Abnormal Pyschology - 3
Social Psychology - 3

That totals 45. Some of which would cover Gen Eds. The remaining 15 credits I presume would be, depending on the university, e.g. Comp I and II, Public Speaking, a History Class, a Civics class etc. Most of the classes above can be obtained via alt-credit like Study.com.

You could of course take Chem 1 and 2 instead of Biology, the problem would be finding the other Chem classes. A Level Chemistry is comprised of Inorganic Chemistry, Physical Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, and Analytical Chemistry (see https://www.cambridgeinternational.org/I...llabus.pdf, pg. 35-49). Similar problem with Physics.

(09-15-2022, 07:29 PM)rvm Wrote: We were unaware of American colleges in the UK or other countries in Europe.  Something to definitely investigate as that sounds like an excellent option. 

I have posted a reply to Debrag previous to this post I highly suggest looking over.

If you truly want to go the UK route, the associates plan covers the prereqs for most UK uni courses in pysch and neurosci. I am not convinced of the merits of someone with dyscalculia attempting neurosci, which is heavily mathematical, but nevertheless the plan I created would likely gain her entry. For sociology the plan would change entirely, since sociology has different prereqs.

I still maintain her best option is a UK masters. At this point the study method typically moves away from timed handwritten exams toward coursework, research papers etc.

Her years as a student do not count toward UK residency anyway. It is the two year graduate visa she gets after completing her degree that counts toward residency time. She would get one of those as a masters graduate too.

If it is the experience of studying overseas that she is after though, here is a full list of all American programs overseas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Am...ted_States

You may find something there that interests her. Richmond is in London and has a psych major and sociology minor https://www.richmond.ac.uk/undergraduate-programmes/.
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#15
(09-16-2022, 08:43 AM)sarahmac Wrote:
(09-16-2022, 04:42 AM)debrag Wrote: Best thing is to complete an associate degrees in the subject she wants to do in the UK.

I do disagree with this as a blanket rule. The associates in this case is being used as a replacement for our two years of post-HS A Level study.

Rather than an associates in the subject, the associates should attempt to cover the prerequisites for her chosen degree that would normally be covered at A Level (or during a foundation year). For neuroscience, for example, the prerequisites are the same at most universities. Of the three total A Levels, at least two should be selected from Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Mathematics (the Core Sciences). Some universities will take Geography, Psychology as "backup" sciences (Manchester, among others). This was also the advice specifically given by Durham, Cardiff and Warwick to an American friend of mine. They said do not bother with an associates in his chosen subject, the level will be too low anyway. Make sure you have the equivalent to A Level Maths covered as part of the associates, along with at least one other hard science. This is their general rule.

I get the impression from the poster's posts thus far that his daughter had not told him UK degrees have prerequisites. Someone going to study Sociology would have taken very different prerequisite A Levels (three of History, Sociology, Politics, Geography, Pyschology, often English) to someone studying NeuroSci... and the same will be expected from an associate's degree holder. You cannot wait until your associates is done to choose.

If she has an associates, but not the prerequisites, I can see her being forced into a foundation year anyway.

Well yes no point in taking computer Science or Business courses/associate if that is not what they want to do at uni, so getting a general associates would be useless.

UK universities are so different to US ones. If they don't like 'timed' tests probably not a good idea as exams are not usually multiple choice and one test can determine the would course grade.

A foundation degree could be a good idea.
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#16
(09-17-2022, 05:38 AM)debrag Wrote: UK universities are so different to US ones. If they don't like 'timed' tests probably not a good idea as exams are not usually multiple choice and one test can determine the would course grade.

A foundation degree could be a good idea.

On this we agree. I think a UK university is entirely unsuited to her, and I already made my opinion on that known earlier in the thread. Sometimes it is not only one module grade either: the university I attended weighted your final degree classification by year of study, so if you performed poorly on one or two of your 6 final year exams, and average on the others, you had no hope of a 1:1 or a 2:1 overall.

But sometimes when people get an idea in their head it is hard to dissuade them with the reality of the situation.

I also think a foundation degree or a Scottish university (4 years) is a good option. The only problem I can forsee is foundation year students are not guaranteed entry onto their chosen course. She could spend a year doing the foundation stage and still not be admitted. From that perspective, an associates is less risky.
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#17
(09-01-2022, 10:21 AM)bjcheung77 Wrote: @rvm, Which state are you in?  Is your daughter looking into UK for a Bachelors/Undergrad or a Masters/Grad? I suggest continuing on your current path for now, the Pierpont BOG AAS and an emphasis in something she's interested in.  You can ladder that into the UMPI BLS or a TAMUC BAAS OL, depending on what she's looking to do.  These programs are all self-paced and graded, but will take 90 credits from ACE sources such as Sophia.org and she can continue taking ACE credits towards Pierpont BOG AAS for now...


We're located in North Carolina. 

My daughter is considering a Bachelor degree in the UK.  As an alternative, I've recommended a Pierpont BOG Associate and continuing to UMPI to finish her 4-year degree.  This path should place her in a much better position to complete a Master degree in the UK.

She already has 5 or 6 classes done on Sophia and is planning to start the Google IT Support certification this weekend so she's on the way to a collection of classes for the AAS.  By the time she finishes the certification(s) and additional classes on Sophia, she should be eligible to apply for the Pierpont BOG AAS as she's 19 yo at the moment.
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#18
You're from NC, you may want to review this from last month, as some schools are offering high school graduates from 2020-2022 free tuition for the first two years: https://www.ednc.org/08-15-2022-high-sch...e-tuition/
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#19
(09-15-2022, 06:25 AM)sarahmac Wrote:
(09-14-2022, 08:34 PM)rvm Wrote:
(08-26-2022, 04:34 PM)freeloader Wrote: rvm, what does your daughter want to study?

Sociology, psychology or neuroscience. 

We know UK universities don't do Gen Eds and that she needs to select a "major" and basically stick with it throughout her 3 years at a university in the UK.   Because of this, I'm trying to convince her to get her undergraduate degree in the states then apply to graduate schools in the UK.  She wants to get her undergrad degree in the UK so that the 3 years at the uni can be applied  to the total number of years she needs to live in the UK in order to apply for residency.

Time spent on a student visa does not count toward residency.

We definitely were not aware of that.  Thank you for pointing it out.
Robin
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