(09-14-2022, 09:37 PM)cacoleman1983 Wrote: These evaluators make me laugh at times but they also anger me.    I'm thinking that the reason why they gave 2.5 for every course instead of the standard 3 is because they were trying to convert 60 ECTS hours into 30 credits hours.    They wanted to take the typical 11/12 courses for each degree and rather than give 3 credits each for a total of 36, they wanted to make it a flat 30 in order to fit perfectly in the conversion. 

(09-15-2022, 12:24 AM)thodeptrai Wrote:

(09-14-2022, 09:37 PM)cacoleman198 Wrote: I'm still thinking about completing one of ENEB's degrees and the Digital Marketing and eCommerce program was one of my top choices.   To assist with the ENEB wiki of this forum, I may go ahead and use one of the two newest NACES members for more references that just came on the seen in May 2022.  They are Institute of Foreign Credential Services, Inc. & International Academic Credential Evaluators, Inc.  Who knows, maybe one of them will give a regionally accredited Masters equivalent.

Globe Language Services (Member since May 2022) does not evaluate Titulo Propio credentials. They only evaluate Titulo Oficial credentials that are listed on the Registro de Universidades, Centros y Titulos (RUCT) website (https://www.educacion.gob.es/ruct/consultaestudios?actual=estudios)

Reference: https://www.globelanguage.com/required-documents.php?country=195

(09-14-2022, 09:37 PM)cacoleman1983 Wrote:

(09-14-2022, 09:22 AM)Sdmj33 Wrote:

(09-08-2022, 07:17 PM)cacoleman1983 Wrote:

(09-08-2022, 03:29 PM)jamshid666 Wrote: I think everyone is getting a bit too emotional over all of this. Can we all step back and do some proper analysis of the actual facts regarding the programs from ENEB? Has anyone actually had the courses/degrees accepted by a regionally accredited university for transfer credit or for proof of fulfilling any prerequisites for further education?

Most who look at ENEB programs for the price see detractors as far as being too good to be true, low quality, and lacking recognition. A majority of people who have taken their programs say they were more than sufficient as a graduate level program.   It's more of an interesting phenomenon than anything else. 

As far as furthering education and meeting other prerequisites with ENEB, Michael Smith (michaeladsmith2) who recently posted has earned 2 Masters and is currently working on 2 more.    He has been able to use his degrees to not only meet requirements for entry into a law school program (without a Bachelors/BA equivalent) but he is also using the two masters he is working on as completion credits to complete a Bachelors degree.  He has several years of experience as a veteran, actor, and minister so that experience allowed him to enter the ENEB Masters programs despite having only junior level status as an undergraduate.  He is using his degrees to not only further his education but also fill the gaps missed from his incomplete Bachelors degree.

On a side yet similar note, I've passed although not officially been awarded a PhD from UCN (Universidad Central Nicaragua) that has been a constant discussion and battle for about 5 years or so in the sister forum degreeinfo.com.  The degree costs about $5000 to $6000 but is blacklisted by several foreign credential evaluators. They have a lot of validation schemes with universities offering the Spanish Propio programs similar to ENEB and state-approved/authorized college degrees but they have been granted full recognition as compatible with regional accreditation by several evaluators when degrees are awarded through them.  I may do an ENEB degree in the future to meet the qualification to teach business at the college level and for personal enrichment.

If possible can u get the UCN PhD evaluated by UoT CES? AFAIK they are the only ones in Canada that havent blacklisted UCN

I'm not sure about any evaluators from Canada as far as who will evaluate UCN's degrees.   You may need to inqure to UoT CES about UCN"s PhD directly.  I know that on our degreeforum's ENEB Wiki,  Quebec Ministry of Immigration evaluated ENEB/UI1 as equivalent to a Masters so maybe they would evaluate UCN's PhD as its proper equivalent.   From the US,  I know that Spantan, ERES, and IEE have all evaluated UCN's degrees with full recognition based on past graduates who used their services to evaluate their degrees.   There are two new NACES evaluators here in the USA that just came out in May 2022.  I believe the newest evaluators are often times the most progressive and willing to evaluate degrees as equivalent from countries with controversial academic recognitions or structures.

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(09-14-2022, 10:12 AM)thodeptrai Wrote: When I finish my ENEB Master in Digital Marketing and eCommerce, I will try to evaluate by IEE or ACEI (according to https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/ENEB). Hope it can be equated to a graduate certificate then I can use for transfer graduate credits. If anyone has done the evaluation by IEE or ACEI, could you please share the results?

I'm still thinking about completing one of ENEB's degrees and the Digital Marketing and eCommerce program was one of my top choices.   To assist with the ENEB wiki of this forum, I may go ahead and use one of the two newest NACES members for more references that just came on the seen in May 2022.  They are Institute of Foreign Credential Services, Inc. & International Academic Credential Evaluators, Inc.  Who knows, maybe one of them will give a regionally accredited Masters equivalent.    [/url]

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(09-14-2022, 09:09 AM)eLearner Wrote:

(09-13-2022, 07:26 PM)michaeladsmith2 Wrote: GREETINGS EVERYONE:

So, as mentioned before, I am an MBA+Masters in Business & Corporate Communication alumnus of ENEB. Well today, my ECE Foreign Credential Evaluation has come back. Here is the Google Drive link for you to see the Course-by-Course (Unofficial Copy) report.

[url=https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hEz2HDx-esR_jXEIXMJrSlPGUU3_nSbu/view?usp=sharing]ECE ENEB Report (Unofficial Copy) (it's also attached to this post in PDF)

Looks good. This is now the second time ECE has given RA equivalence. The other time wasn't a course-by-course report but the less expensive employment report. The credit shaving is strange to me but I've heard of this happening with WES often and Dr. Coleman has mentioned his own issue with WES doing that, smh. Not sure why evaluators do that without explanation.

The one real issue I have is with this line: "Admission Requirement: U.S equivalent of 3 years of undergraduate study". But that's not the requirement. ENEB doesn't differentiate between 3 year or 4 year Bachelor's degrees especially when enrolling Americans, they only require a Bachelor's degree regardless of the timetable. The person with the first report showed the explanation from ECE which said that the decision was based on ENEB enrolling 3-year Bachelor's degree holders, but of course they would since they live in a region of the world where the 3-year Bachelor's degree is common, lol. They also by default require 4-year Bachelor's degrees from American students since 4-years is the standard for American Bachelor's degree. So either they're not thinking that through or that's their angle to not give 1:1 equivalence.

In any case, this works out either way for you given that TESU accepts the credits. I do see one possible area of opportunity here though: based on how they put both degrees in one evaluation, I'd only send one degree for evaluation at a time so each one has its own separate report. Unless they as a practice use prior reports to apply to newer ones, this would allow each degree to be evaluated for full credit on their own rather than having credits from the second degree on the report being influence by the first or vice versa. Granted, if you submit both to a school they're going to see duplicate credits, but I think it's better to have separate evaluations for each so that if for some reason you need just one degree for a certain thing and not the other, there will be no issue with full credit being identified for that degree.

---

I needed to make a minor edit, but I can't see my previous post, lol. 

I know that deletions cause a bug to trigger in the forum software. I wonder if mods are able to edit posts, erase the content, and write "deleted" rather than actually deleting the posts? Maybe that would prevent the issue from occurring.

These evaluators make me laugh at times but they also anger me.    I'm thinking that the reason why they gave 2.5 for every course instead of the standard 3 is because they were trying to convert 60 ECTS hours into 30 credits hours.    They wanted to take the typical 11/12 courses for each degree and rather than give 3 credits each for a total of 36, they wanted to make it a flat 30 in order to fit perfectly in the conversion.     My partners credit number from the Philippines went from 47 credits to 34 credits as they shaved one credit for each course to represent one year of study.  However as a educational counselor on record, I had to explain the rationale and correct the evaluation so our community college could accept it as they were not going to accept it nor did WES agree to revise it.

WES and ECE are very conservative evaluators that were among the first out when their services started in the 1980s.   There have been a couple of news ones come out this year with IEE being the youngest one since 2018 up to this past May.  IEE seems to be the most progressive evaluator and is willing to give pre-evaluation information.  I hope the new ones do the same.

(09-15-2022, 04:03 PM)cacoleman1983 Wrote: Oh, I shouldn't have used the term pre-assessments.  What I meant to say was IEE gave me feedback about the Titulo Propio before submitting one to be evaluated saying that they would likely give it an equivalent of a graduate certificate and/or graduate credit hours. They even explained why they would evaluate like that since the Titulo Propio is not an official Masters degree as well as not designed to enter a Doctorate program.   All the other evaluators just side-step the question and ask you to submit your credentials.  I consider that a pre-assessment to me but only informally.

(09-15-2022, 04:03 PM)michaeladsmith2 Wrote: Per my last post, here is the response from ECE in having my Course-by-Course FCE Report reevaluated (concerning the 2.50 credits for each ENEB course). 

Dear Michael SMITH,

Thank you for your recent request to review the evaluation report, Reference Number F54734/JPM.

I have reviewed the evaluation report, the information which you provided, and the information and resources used in preparing the evaluation report. Based on this review, I have determined that the conclusions of the evaluation report prepared for you correctly convey our judgment.

Each of the programs that you completed represents one year of full-time study.  In the United States, one year of full-time study represents approximately 30 semester hours of credit.  For this reason, our report shows the U.S. equivalent of approximately 30 semester hours of credit for each one-year program that you completed (the second item includes duplicate content based on course overlap, and therefore the credit total is lower).

Contrary to your statement, not all credit values in the United States are standard 3-credit values, nor whole numbers.  Institutions use a variety of credit systems, including the quarter system, which result in variable credit values (including fractional values) when converted to a semester credit system or other.  In addition, foreign credit systems rarely correspond to or equate with the U.S. semester credit system, and institutions in the U.S. routinely convert credits which do not represent whole numbers.  This also results in fractional credit values, which U.S. institutions are equipped to handle.  Typically, a university will consider transfer (assuming course content is a match) credit values that are within 1.00 credit of the course to which they are comparing at their institution.  

In other words, a 2.50-credit course is likely transferable to its 3.0-credit counterpart course if the content matches.  Transfer decisions vary among institutions according to their policies, and you would need to confirm this with the institutions that you wish to pursue.  It is certainly not true that overseas accredited institutions should have the U.S. equivalent of only three-credit courses; in fact, only a small minority of them do because of the differences in institutions, programs, and credit requirements.

In summary, no change will be made to the evaluation report.

Sincerely,

James Meyers
Senior Evaluator

 
Educational Credential Evaluators, Inc. 
101 W Pleasant St, STE 200
Milwaukee WI 53212-3963 

Thoughts: 

1. I will see from Excelsior & TESU if these credits will do as he says, "be accepted as 3-credits into the course counterpart."

2. Obviously, every evaluator is different. It gets expensive to spend upwards of $200 a piece to see which FCE gives you what you desire for the academic/transfer plan you have. My purpose is entirely to use ENEB courses for undergraduate degree completion; and it seems TESU & Excelsior are amicable to ECE's Report. I may even send my report to Oakwood University where I have 60 credits there as well. 

3. It seems that I will need to complete my additional ENEB Masters (I already signed up for, and paid) - the MHRM and the MPM - with maybe another Masters in order to meet MORE ECE credits. Based on the math, it would seem that if I complete a total of 30 ENEB Modules, at 2.50 credits, I would then achieve 75 semester credits! And since I already have over 60 credits in both TESU and Excelsior, I could more than meet the completion of a BALS or BSBA. It's cheaper to pay ENEB for Modules/Masters than to pay ANY USA College/University for these Business courses. 

Your thoughts and feedback are welcomed. Be kind and be respectful.

---

(09-15-2022, 04:03 PM)cacoleman1983 Wrote: Oh, I shouldn't have used the term pre-assessments.  What I meant to say was IEE gave me feedback about the Titulo Propio before submitting one to be evaluated saying that they would likely give it an equivalent of a graduate certificate and/or graduate credit hours. They even explained why they would evaluate like that since the Titulo Propio is not an official Masters degree as well as not designed to enter a Doctorate program.   All the other evaluators just side-step the question and ask you to submit your credentials.  I consider that a pre-assessment to me but only informally.

 Yea, I dealt with that twice today. It's so risky because you really don't know which evaluator will give you what you want. They want the money first, whether or not the Report works for you. They don't provide a history or institutional list or any form of customer (prior reports) testimonies to ensure you are paying for the correct service and you get the results you want. 

I REALLY did not want to pay $255 to ECE for them to tell me some garbage! The only mistake I made was I should have completed ALL my courses at ENEB before submitting my request so that everything would be evaluated at once. Now I have to spend another ($275 to $400+) once I complete everything, because Excelsior ONLY accepts the ECE Subject Analysis Report. So I'll have to pay again in order to get (hopefully 30 ENEB courses @ 2.50 = 75 credits) evaluated and accepted. 

Lasty, I don't concern myself with Spain's or the FCE's policies on Titulo Propio degrees. Here in the USA and around the world, admissions to Doctoral Programs with your ENEB Masters is entirely up to the institution. As I said before, University of La Verne College of Law accepted my ENEB MBA as a BA in Business Administration-equivalent and I was able to apply with no further question of my academics. I'm currently in a PsyD Program because of my ENEB MBA, and may even pursue the DBA. So, ENEB does give you MANY options. Graduates just need to research and find their place in a school or program that fits their needs. It may not be Harvard; but it can be a state-school, international school or private Liberal Arts University that welcomes ENEB.

(09-15-2022, 04:31 PM)cacoleman1983 Wrote:

(09-15-2022, 04:03 PM)michaeladsmith2 Wrote: Per my last post, here is the response from ECE in having my Course-by-Course FCE Report reevaluated (concerning the 2.50 credits for each ENEB course). 

Dear Michael SMITH,

Thank you for your recent request to review the evaluation report, Reference Number F54734/JPM.

I have reviewed the evaluation report, the information which you provided, and the information and resources used in preparing the evaluation report. Based on this review, I have determined that the conclusions of the evaluation report prepared for you correctly convey our judgment.

Each of the programs that you completed represents one year of full-time study.  In the United States, one year of full-time study represents approximately 30 semester hours of credit.  For this reason, our report shows the U.S. equivalent of approximately 30 semester hours of credit for each one-year program that you completed (the second item includes duplicate content based on course overlap, and therefore the credit total is lower).

Contrary to your statement, not all credit values in the United States are standard 3-credit values, nor whole numbers.  Institutions use a variety of credit systems, including the quarter system, which result in variable credit values (including fractional values) when converted to a semester credit system or other.  In addition, foreign credit systems rarely correspond to or equate with the U.S. semester credit system, and institutions in the U.S. routinely convert credits which do not represent whole numbers.  This also results in fractional credit values, which U.S. institutions are equipped to handle.  Typically, a university will consider transfer (assuming course content is a match) credit values that are within 1.00 credit of the course to which they are comparing at their institution.  

In other words, a 2.50-credit course is likely transferable to its 3.0-credit counterpart course if the content matches.  Transfer decisions vary among institutions according to their policies, and you would need to confirm this with the institutions that you wish to pursue.  It is certainly not true that overseas accredited institutions should have the U.S. equivalent of only three-credit courses; in fact, only a small minority of them do because of the differences in institutions, programs, and credit requirements.

In summary, no change will be made to the evaluation report.

Sincerely,

James Meyers
Senior Evaluator

 
Educational Credential Evaluators, Inc. 
101 W Pleasant St, STE 200
Milwaukee WI 53212-3963 

Thoughts: 

1. I will see from Excelsior & TESU if these credits will do as he says, "be accepted as 3-credits into the course counterpart."

2. Obviously, every evaluator is different. It gets expensive to spend upwards of $200 a piece to see which FCE gives you what you desire for the academic/transfer plan you have. My purpose is entirely to use ENEB courses for undergraduate degree completion; and it seems TESU & Excelsior are amicable to ECE's Report. I may even send my report to Oakwood University where I have 60 credits there as well. 

3. It seems that I will need to complete my additional ENEB Masters (I already signed up for, and paid) - the MHRM and the MPM - with maybe another Masters in order to meet MORE ECE credits. Based on the math, it would seem that if I complete a total of 30 ENEB Modules, at 2.50 credits, I would then achieve 75 semester credits! And since I already have over 60 credits in both TESU and Excelsior, I could more than meet the completion of a BALS or BSBA. It's cheaper to pay ENEB for Modules/Masters than to pay ANY USA College/University for these Business courses. 

Your thoughts and feedback are welcomed. Be kind and be respectful.

---

(09-15-2022, 04:03 PM)cacoleman1983 Wrote: Oh, I shouldn't have used the term pre-assessments.  What I meant to say was IEE gave me feedback about the Titulo Propio before submitting one to be evaluated saying that they would likely give it an equivalent of a graduate certificate and/or graduate credit hours. They even explained why they would evaluate like that since the Titulo Propio is not an official Masters degree as well as not designed to enter a Doctorate program.   All the other evaluators just side-step the question and ask you to submit your credentials.  I consider that a pre-assessment to me but only informally.

 Yea, I dealt with that twice today. It's so risky because you really don't know which evaluator will give you what you want. They want the money first, whether or not the Report works for you. They don't provide a history or institutional list or any form of customer (prior reports) testimonies to ensure you are paying for the correct service and you get the results you want. 

I REALLY did not want to pay $255 to ECE for them to tell me some garbage! The only mistake I made was I should have completed ALL my courses at ENEB before submitting my request so that everything would be evaluated at once. Now I have to spend another ($275 to $400+) once I complete everything, because Excelsior ONLY accepts the ECE Subject Analysis Report. So I'll have to pay again in order to get (hopefully 30 ENEB courses @ 2.50 = 75 credits) evaluated and accepted. 

Lasty, I don't concern myself with Spain's or the FCE's policies on Titulo Propio degrees. Here in the USA and around the world, admissions to Doctoral Programs with your ENEB Masters is entirely up to the institution. As I said before, University of La Verne College of Law accepted my ENEB MBA as a BA in Business Administration-equivalent and I was able to apply with no further question of my academics. I'm currently in a PsyD Program because of my ENEB MBA, and may even pursue the DBA. So, ENEB does give you MANY options. Graduates just need to research and find their place in a school or program that fits their needs. It may not be Harvard; but it can be a state-school, international school or private Liberal Arts University that welcomes ENEB.

I emailed WES and they had a similar response about my partner's evaluation from the Phillippines although his was even worse with taking off one credit per every class... 3 to 2 and 2 to 1.   They didn't give an explanation other than they are fitting it into a one year credit frame just like yours.    What I do like about FCE's stance as well as the stance of the colleges and universities is that it is up to the institution of how they want to interpret the credits and grades.   Institutions are not required to follow a FCE's recommendation.   

The Titulo Propio degrees are relevant and useful.  Many universities will accept them as admission into their Doctoral Programs even without a FCE and even more will accept them for employment at the state and federal level.  It's all about knowing where you want to go and getting in with the right folks at these institutions.  If they want you, they'll find a way to take you.  If they don't, they'll find a way to deny you.

(09-15-2022, 05:23 PM)eLearner Wrote: Okay, I have a lot to say on this one.

If credits were calculated 1:1 (which we know they aren't when it comes to these conversions from many evaluators), the MBA from ENEB would be equal to 39 U.S. credits (13 courses, 3 credits each). They took that and condensed it down into 30. By that logic the MBCC would be 27.5 credits in the U.S. (11 courses, 2.5 each when converted by ECE), but that's a confused concept, because if the goal is to fit each degree program into a 1-year conversion, then the MBCC would have to have each course be about 2.73 credits per course instead of 2.5 in order to reach the 30 credit U.S. conversion they're rigidly trying to fit the degrees into, but we all know ECE won't do that and we have proof because the report they gave shows it as 2.5. So they're contradicting their own system in the same report. But it gets worse because here is where ECE is going off the rails:

When one year of study is calculated, it's calculated as an estimate of how much time all studies in a given degree program would take to complete, but each course is not chained to that estimate, that's not how it works. Credits aren't based on whether you took them in one year or more or less, that's not how credits work. Credits for a single course are based on the amount of hours estimated to complete that single course, and that's the same when calculating per course for every other course in a degree program, it's not calculated per calendar year since in theory and in practice a student can finish an entire degree program in less than a year (it's been done many times) or more than a year (been done many more times, lol). Their logic on that is totally flawed. What they're doing here is just applying a blanket rule without considering nuance in a situation where nuance should absolutely always be considered. The big question is, why do they feel the need to apply this rule? What purpose does it even serve (see further questioning in bold).

I guess all that can really be done is to see how the schools will apply the credits, but ECE's reasoning on foreign degrees continues to be questionable and this response only furthers that issue. It's simply unnecessary to shave credits in a rigid manner especially when the reason for doing it is logically flawed: each course is still one course, so awarding it 3 credits is not going to give a person more useable transfer credit (which seems to be part of their sticking point on what they don't want to do) because no matter what it's still being transferred as just one course. Think about it: whether you award the course 3 credits or 4, that one course can only transfer as one course, that's why shaving is nonsensical. What the shaving actually does is just open the door for schools to reject the credits, and I believe ECE knows exactly that despite what they wrote there as a justification.

Lastly, I don't care for the tone with which the evaluator wrote back. It has a bit of an air of combativeness. He needs some training in communication. It comes across like he's replying in a debate which wouldn't make sense in this context. There are better ways to write that and convey the same message to a paying customer.

(09-15-2022, 05:23 PM)eLearner Wrote: Okay, I have a lot to say on this one.

If credits were calculated 1:1 (which we know they aren't when it comes to these conversions from many evaluators), the MBA from ENEB would be equal to 39 U.S. credits (13 courses, 3 credits each). They took that and condensed it down into 30. By that logic the MBCC would be 27.5 credits in the U.S. (11 courses, 2.5 each when converted by ECE), but that's a confused concept, because if the goal is to fit each degree program into a 1-year conversion, then the MBCC would have to have each course be about 2.73 credits per course instead of 2.5 in order to reach the 30 credit U.S. conversion they're rigidly trying to fit the degrees into, but we all know ECE won't do that and we have proof because the report they gave shows it as 2.5. So they're contradicting their own system in the same report. But it gets worse because here is where ECE is going off the rails:

When one year of study is calculated, it's calculated as an estimate of how much time all studies in a given degree program would take to complete, but each course is not chained to that estimate, that's not how it works. Credits aren't based on whether you took them in one year or more or less, that's not how credits work. Credits for a single course are based on the amount of hours estimated to complete that single course, and that's the same when calculating per course for every other course in a degree program, it's not calculated per calendar year since in theory and in practice a student can finish an entire degree program in less than a year (it's been done many times) or more than a year (been done many more times, lol). Their logic on that is totally flawed. What they're doing here is just applying a blanket rule without considering nuance in a situation where nuance should absolutely always be considered. The big question is, why do they feel the need to apply this rule? What purpose does it even serve (see further questioning in bold).

I guess all that can really be done is to see how the schools will apply the credits, but ECE's reasoning on foreign degrees continues to be questionable and this response only furthers that issue. It's simply unnecessary to shave credits in a rigid manner especially when the reason for doing it is logically flawed: each course is still one course, so awarding it 3 credits is not going to give a person more useable transfer credit (which seems to be part of their sticking point on what they don't want to do) because no matter what it's still being transferred as just one course. Think about it: whether you award the course 3 credits or 4, that one course can only transfer as one course, that's why shaving is nonsensical. What the shaving actually does is just open the door for schools to reject the credits, and I believe ECE knows exactly that despite what they wrote there as a justification.

Lastly, I don't care for the tone with which the evaluator wrote back. It has a bit of an air of combativeness. He needs some training in communication. It comes across like he's replying in a debate which wouldn't make sense in this context. There are better ways to write that and convey the same message to a paying customer.