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RE: Advice on flexible JD programs for personal goals and disability - Juris - 09-10-2025
(09-10-2025, 11:43 AM)wow Wrote:I am not planning on moving to the UK I will be staying in California or New York Because of my disability I prefer programs that are mostly asynchronous with some flexibility which is why I have been looking at UoL UCLan and ARU(09-10-2025, 03:52 AM)Juris Wrote: So I’m trying to figure out the best path for my law studies and would love to hear from people with experience. I’ve been admitted to both UCLan and the University of London (UoL) for a 3-year LLB, and I’m weighing my options in terms of prestige, career value, and potential U.S. opportunities.
I’ve heard that UoL is very well respected and has a long-standing reputation globally. UCLan, on the other hand, offers a traditional campus experience, which might give better networking opportunities and a more hands-on university feel. Between the two, which is generally considered more respected, especially for international recognition or US focused opportunities?
Can someone also confirm whether a 3 year LLB from UCLan or UoL would let me sit for the California or D.C. Bar without an LLM? From what I’ve read, if your law degree is from a recognized foreign school, California may allow you to sit for the bar without an LLM, as long as the degree is at least three years of legal study covering subjects similar to a U.S. JD and the school is recognized in its home country. If the LLB doesn’t meet the requirements, then an ABA-approved LLM is needed. Many UK LLBs qualify, but each case is evaluated individually.
Like I have stated, I’m also not sure I’ll take the U.S. bar anyway. How does a UK LLB alone compare to a JD in terms of respect and opportunities? Would an online LLM carry the same weight as a JD, especially if I’m not planning to practice law immediately in the U.S.?
I mean this with no malice, but this entire thread has been extremely confusing, and this comment makes it even more so. You talked about living in California and not wanting to have scheduled classes because of your disability. Now you are talking about moving to the UK to pursue a "traditional campus experience" in-person LLB?
If I were BJ, I would tell you to fill out the spreadsheet. I'm not sure is the spreadsheet is designed for graduate studies, though.
In any case, clear articulation of your overarching goal and being consistent about what you will and won't accept in a program would help us help you.
I am still undecided on the bar exam I know New York will not accept an online LLM for bar eligibility but I am also considering California where an LLB plus an LLM or a JD could work My main point is that I am trying to weigh whether an LLB or LLM would still be seen as a respectable achievement even if I do not go the bar route especially since the JD is much more expensive
That is the reason I have been asking these questions I am just trying to plan carefully and figure out the right path for me
RE: Advice on flexible JD programs for personal goals and disability - wow - 09-10-2025
(09-10-2025, 03:38 PM)Juris Wrote:Thanks for the clarification. I must have misunderstood your earlier comment about uclan.(09-10-2025, 11:43 AM)wow Wrote:I am not planning on moving to the UK I will be staying in California or New York Because of my disability I prefer programs that are mostly asynchronous with some flexibility which is why I have been looking at UoL UCLan and ARU(09-10-2025, 03:52 AM)Juris Wrote: So I’m trying to figure out the best path for my law studies and would love to hear from people with experience. I’ve been admitted to both UCLan and the University of London (UoL) for a 3-year LLB, and I’m weighing my options in terms of prestige, career value, and potential U.S. opportunities.
I’ve heard that UoL is very well respected and has a long-standing reputation globally. UCLan, on the other hand, offers a traditional campus experience, which might give better networking opportunities and a more hands-on university feel. Between the two, which is generally considered more respected, especially for international recognition or US focused opportunities?
Can someone also confirm whether a 3 year LLB from UCLan or UoL would let me sit for the California or D.C. Bar without an LLM? From what I’ve read, if your law degree is from a recognized foreign school, California may allow you to sit for the bar without an LLM, as long as the degree is at least three years of legal study covering subjects similar to a U.S. JD and the school is recognized in its home country. If the LLB doesn’t meet the requirements, then an ABA-approved LLM is needed. Many UK LLBs qualify, but each case is evaluated individually.
Like I have stated, I’m also not sure I’ll take the U.S. bar anyway. How does a UK LLB alone compare to a JD in terms of respect and opportunities? Would an online LLM carry the same weight as a JD, especially if I’m not planning to practice law immediately in the U.S.?
I mean this with no malice, but this entire thread has been extremely confusing, and this comment makes it even more so. You talked about living in California and not wanting to have scheduled classes because of your disability. Now you are talking about moving to the UK to pursue a "traditional campus experience" in-person LLB?
If I were BJ, I would tell you to fill out the spreadsheet. I'm not sure is the spreadsheet is designed for graduate studies, though.
In any case, clear articulation of your overarching goal and being consistent about what you will and won't accept in a program would help us help you.
I am still undecided on the bar exam I know New York will not accept an online LLM for bar eligibility but I am also considering California where an LLB plus an LLM or a JD could work My main point is that I am trying to weigh whether an LLB or LLM would still be seen as a respectable achievement even if I do not go the bar route especially since the JD is much more expensive
That is the reason I have been asking these questions I am just trying to plan carefully and figure out the right path for me
Personally, I see LLBs and LLMs as respectable achievements. But you're probably not looking for my opinion. Is there anyone you can talk to about this in your current professional circles? Could you do an informational interview with someone at an organization (or at least type of organization) you might be interested in working for in the future?
RE: Advice on flexible JD programs for personal goals and disability - ss20ts - 09-11-2025
https://www.nybarexam.org/foreign/foreignlegaleducation.htm
All of this sounds much more complex and time consuming than completing a JD in the US if one wants to sit for the Bar in NY.
RE: Advice on flexible JD programs for personal goals and disability - Jonathan Whatley - 09-11-2025
(09-11-2025, 09:38 AM)ss20ts Wrote: https://www.nybarexam.org/foreign/foreignlegaleducation.htm
At at least four places in the rules at that link, it is stated that no distance study is permitted. Distance study might or might not be permitted under some other provision described elsewhere.
RE: Advice on flexible JD programs for personal goals and disability - HogwartsSchool - 09-11-2025
How does a UK LLB alone compare to a JD in terms of respect and opportunities?
Would an online LLM carry the same weight as a JD?
NO. an online LLM does NOT carry same weight as JD. an LLM is NOT a cure all to bypass the JD in the eyes of many of the state bars and employers.
There is NO respect in the US for a UK LLB + US LLM among US law firms. Outside the US, sure, there's options and respect but inside the US, JD is the gold standard. You don't want to spend 3 years of your life studying to end up having a degree that you can't do anything with it.
Back to my earlier comment, what type of law do you want to practice??
UCLan = 3 year, directly from school. not online.
UoL = 2 year senior status, directly from school. online but very limited assistance, you will need to hire UoL tutors (that's an entire market), that's extremely high added expense. Department of US Education doesn't recognize UoL.
ARU 2 or 3 years. Over $20K in fees. And you still have a LLB at the end of the day.
Entirely honest with you. Having a law degree, whether from US or UK or somewhere else, will not likely change your life as you probably think it will. I posted an case study about law degree outcomes debt vs income. You need to have a plan of action instead of just wanting a law degree.
btw: I'm not saying to not get a law degree but just getting one to have one isn't advisable.
RE: Advice on flexible JD programs for personal goals and disability - Juris - 09-11-2025
(09-11-2025, 06:14 PM)HogwartsSchool Wrote: How does a UK LLB alone compare to a JD in terms of respect and opportunities?
Would an online LLM carry the same weight as a JD?
NO. an online LLM does NOT carry same weight as JD. an LLM is NOT a cure all to bypass the JD in the eyes of many of the state bars and employers.
There is NO respect in the US for a UK LLB + US LLM among US law firms. Outside the US, sure, there's options and respect but inside the US, JD is the gold standard. You don't want to spend 3 years of your life studying to end up having a degree that you can't do anything with it.
Back to my earlier comment, what type of law do you want to practice??
UCLan = 3 year, directly from school. not online.
UoL = 2 year senior status, directly from school. online but very limited assistance, you will need to hire UoL tutors (that's an entire market), that's extremely high added expense. Department of US Education doesn't recognize UoL.
ARU 2 or 3 years. Over $20K in fees. And you still have a LLB at the end of the day.
Entirely honest with you. Having a law degree, whether from US or UK or somewhere else, will not likely change your life as you probably think it will. I posted an case study about law degree outcomes debt vs income. You need to have a plan of action instead of just wanting a law degree.
btw: I'm not saying to not get a law degree but just getting one to have one isn't advisable.
If money isn’t an issue abroad (scholarship), would a UCLan LLB plus the ARU International Business & Commercial Law LLM (https://www.aru.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/international-business-and-commercial-law?utm_source=chatgpt.com) be a solid option?
Would a fully sponsored GMU.edu LLM in American Law really “level” with a JD, or is it still not quite equivalent? If it isn’t, I might as well skip NWCU.. I’d fund that myself, but if it has limited value, it may not be worth pursuing.
RE: Advice on flexible JD programs for personal goals and disability - wow - 09-12-2025
(09-11-2025, 10:52 PM)Juris Wrote: If money isn’t an issue abroad (scholarship), would a UCLan LLB plus the ARU International Business & Commercial Law LLM (https://www.aru.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/international-business-and-commercial-law?utm_source=chatgpt.com) be a solid option?
Would a fully sponsored GMU.edu LLM in American Law really “level” with a JD, or is it still not quite equivalent? If it isn’t, I might as well skip NWCU.. I’d fund that myself, but if it has limited value, it may not be worth pursuing.
If money isn't an issue, why not just pursue a JD at an accredited institution? At least National University has the possibility of a scholarship for JDs.
Again, UCLan and ARU are in person, so don't meet the requirements you've set out for distance learning. Moreover, I see no indication that they will give an international student a scholarship. (It looks like UCLan does small scholarships for UK residents and enrolled students only: https://london.uclan.ac.uk/join-us/scholarships)
GMU's fellowships appear to be limited to in-person JDs: https://www.law.gmu.edu/financial_aid/scholarships_mason. Your question about whether it levels with a JD has already been answered.
If your goal is personal fulfillment and flexible distance learning, *any* distance degree at any accreditation level within your price and scheduling requirements should be adequate, as long as the curriculum covers what you want to learn. Only you can make that determination. It's hard for us to give you feedback when the goals keep shifting.
RE: Advice on flexible JD programs for personal goals and disability - PearsonOTHMQualifi7654 - 10-28-2025
I wish I had seen this thread earlier as it is a great discussion where many people can relate. Going to law school and becoming a lawyer is a great feat after all!
I think a lot of it has to do with ego. A person wants a law degree for the sake of earning it, then wants practice rights, then wants to be able to practice in the country of residence. I think this is only human nature.
As I have been interested in law for some time, I decided to revisit this idea recently and will share what I have learned so far in the past few days. If I got some information wrong, please don't beat me up! First of all, for California residents who plan on staying there and want to practice law in California, this is quite straightforward. For those who don't live in CA and want to practice, it is less straightforward. I don't know why NY and CA is being breathed in the same sentence, but I understand the OP has relatives in NY. Nevertheless, I don't think they should be viewed in the same light, as they are drastically different in requirements to practice.
CA Bar is very difficult as I understand, possibly the most difficult of all US Bar exams, so some of the rules are more lax. Provided that the law school is registered with the CA Bar, even attending an unaccredited law school or a non-ABA law school via distance, allows for one to sit for the CA bar and eventually practice law if one is smart enough to pass both the baby bar and the full Bar. As I understand, it has been this way for a very long time.
NY on the other hand, I see as being a VERY different story.
In NY, a foreign qualified lawyer with a foreign law degree is allowed to sit for the Bar exam, provided the degree is from a common law country and deemed by the Board of Law Examiners (BOLE) to be comparable to a US Law degree from an ABA Approved law school.
UK Law graduates, one can argue should be given respect, as the US inherited much of its laws from the English Common law system, and both are common law countries. On a side note, common law, means that precedent and prior interpretation of the law by judges carry a lot of weight, as opposed to civil law countries, where codes and statutes carry more weight, where judges independently have more power to decide what they deem are appropriate. In the US we have an adversarial system where there are 2 sides arguing a case, such as the plaintiff and defendant and their respective attorneys. In many situations in the US, there is a right to a jury trial. Civil law countries on the other hand, I find to be less fair.
In civil law countries, the judges have more power and can be more of an inquisitor. Makes me glad that I live in the US, actually, as we live in one of the most meaningful legal systems in the world, formed by technically breaking the law when declaring independence from England. The US Legal system is designed so that power rests with the people who elect officials, and the Founding Fathers tried their best to start a system that could be undone by the people if things went awry. That is why we have elections.
Back on topic,
It is common for UK lawyers to become licensed in NY and vice versa. UK Lawyers with LLBs will generally need to get a US LLM to achieve this, but not always. BOLE can allow a UK Lawyer with an LLB to sit directly for the NY Bar. One has to apply and submit all documentation to find out what BOLE determines.
If the LLB was not earned in person, then an ABA-approved US LLM will 100% be required. Foreign LLMs will never take the place. BOLE will call the school and ask if the degree was earned online, so it does not matter what the degree says, or what WES says. There's no need to masquerade as if one attended the LLB program in person, because BOLE will inquire. If the UK LLB was earned online, the "deficiency" needs to be "cured" by attending an ABA-approved LLM program (Not online). The good news is that there are ABA-approved LLM programs held in the evenings and on weekends in NY and NJ although they are expensive.
The other way to practice in NY is to gain a foreign lawyer exemption for those working at a multinational company, but they will not have any court rights and will only be an in-house legal person. There is absolutely no way for a foreign qualified lawyer to take the bar or be admitted, however, in New Jersey without earning a US JD. It is possible to have an exemption like in the NY example, but will only be able to advise on the laws of the country in which the lawyer is qualified. For example, working for a UK company, but in NJ, and customers of that company may be entering contracts that are governed by English Common Law.
JDs vs ESQ? As I understand, JD is the US Law Degree, Esq. are the letters after the lawyer's name who wants to show that they passed the Bar. In the UK, Esq can be used by Barristers (who go to court and wear wigs) but not by Solicitors (those who don't go to courtrooms). There are different pathways in the UK for Solicitors and Barristers.
To say that US law firms do not respect LLBs and LLMs, I think, is a bit subjective. A UK-trained lawyer who wants to relocate to NY, for instance, can qualify for the Bar, pass it, and be 100% qualified. Aren't there international law firms with offices in both NY and London? Would the partners in the NY office automatically think their partners in London are subpar?
If a UK-qualified lawyer has passed the same NY bar as a US Lawyer, is the UK Lawyer then considered less respectable? Wouldn't it speak volumes that a person became qualified in 2 countries instead of 1? I think that's more impressive but that's just my opinion. Back on the topic at hand, the NY BOLE will require an ABA-approved in-person LLM if the UK LLB was done online, and may require it if the LLB was done in person but in a civil law country.
Bottom line, an in-person UK LLB holder with practice rights in England and Wales, can apply to BOLE and be qualified to take the NY Bar Exam, without the need to cure with an LLM.
By the way, a person can hold a job related to law without passing the bar. In-house legal advisors, or compliance personnel, are examples. If you are in a line of work that is somewhat related to law or intersects often with law, and the job function routinely requires escalation to the legal department, or are in a compliance-related role, an education in law can be meaningful and helpful; and you wouldn't need to pass the bar necessarily.
I personally think a JD for non-lawyer programs or executive JDs that don't lead to taking the bar are less desirable than a UK LLB. At least with a UK LLB, it allows for one to have a chance to actually practice law at some point in multiple jurisdictions if things work out. A JD for non-lawyers, an executive JD, or a MSL on the other hand, makes money for the school and ensures the student will never be allowed to practice law anywhere, but get to say they went to law school. I think it's morally reprehensible for a school to charge 40k for an MSL, which doesn't allow the student to ever practice law nor allow the transfer of credits toward a program that will allow that path.
I don't need to practice law in NY, but I would like to strive to take the bar one day. Even if I don't become a "lawyer" in the US, I don't really care, because I have a career already, and have a 2nd career that I am working towards. Law education would simply be for my own satisfaction.
I am going to do a UK LLB for my satisfaction. At some point, I may do a US LLM at an ABA-approved law school, and maybe I will attempt to take the NY Bar. I have other interests and plans, and am not looking to work at a law firm, however.
RE: Advice on flexible JD programs for personal goals and disability - Jonathan Whatley - 10-28-2025
(10-28-2025, 06:24 PM)PearsonOTHMQualifi7654 Wrote: It is common for UK lawyers to become licensed in NY and vice versa. […]
The other way to practice in NY is to gain a foreign lawyer exemption
There’s another important piece of the puzzle. In the US, the route to a law license after law school (the qualifying law degree) is simple: bar exam, character and fitness, and admission to the bar. Delaware additionally requires a 12-week full-time clerkship with an existing Delaware legal practice.
But in the UK, the route to a law license after law school (the qualifying law degree) has additional steps. For a new law graduate to become a solicitor, my understanding is that it generally involves in addition to those steps shared with the US, a Legal Practice Course and either a training contract of at least two years full-time in an qualified UK solicitor practice, or a similar combination of qualifying professional experience in law. For a new law graduate to become a barrister, it’s much the same, except it’s a Bar Practice Course and a pupillage of one year full-time in a qualified UK barrister practice.
I’ve read news stories about surpluses of UK LLB graduates unable to obtain training contracts or pupillages, even in-person in the UK. I don’t know how much of this it’s possible to do while physically outside the UK, or how competitive those positions are if they exist. I don’t know how achievable it is to immigrate to the UK for the purpose of taking a training contract or pupillage there.
If you’re going for a US state or another jurisdiction that will take your UK LLB as a qualifying law degree in the absence of a UK law license, this might not be an issue. But the routes you describe in New York seem to require not only the law degree but also the law license.
RE: Advice on flexible JD programs for personal goals and disability - PearsonOTHMQualifi7654 - 10-28-2025
(10-28-2025, 07:07 PM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote:(10-28-2025, 06:24 PM)PearsonOTHMQualifi7654 Wrote: It is common for UK lawyers to become licensed in NY and vice versa. […]
The other way to practice in NY is to gain a foreign lawyer exemption
There’s another important piece of the puzzle. In the US, the route to a law license after law school (the qualifying law degree) is simple: bar exam, character and fitness, and admission to the bar. Delaware additionally requires a 12-week full-time clerkship with an existing Delaware legal practice.
But in the UK, the route to a law license after law school (the qualifying law degree) has additional steps. For a new law graduate to become a solicitor, my understanding is that it generally involves in addition to those steps shared with the US, a Legal Practice Course and either a training contract of at least two years full-time in an qualified UK solicitor practice, or a similar combination of qualifying professional experience in law. For a new law graduate to become a barrister, it’s much the same, except it’s a Bar Practice Course and a pupillage of one year full-time in a qualified UK barrister practice.
I’ve read news stories about surpluses of UK LLB graduates unable to obtain training contracts or pupillages, even in-person in the UK. I don’t know how much of this it’s possible to do while physically outside the UK, or how competitive those positions are if they exist. I don’t know how achievable it is to immigrate to the UK so as to take a training contract or pupillage there.
If you’re going for a US state that will take your UK LLB as a qualifying law degree in the absence of a UK law license, this isn’t an issue. But the routes you describe in New York seems to require the UK law license too.
Hi, so in the UK, to become a solicitor (a lawyer who doesn't go to court) one is no longer required to hold a law degree to sit for the two 2 qualifying exams. As long as the person holds a bachelor's degree or the equivalent in any major, the person can study for and take the SQE1 and SQE2 exams. It also requires 2 years of qualifying work experience in addition. Others also may choose to do a Postgraduate Diploma in Law as a conversion for a non law bachelor's degree. Looking at NY laws, I think that a UK-qualified solicitor who does not hold a law degree cannot qualify to sit for the bar. Thus I think one should aim for the LLB, and the reason I personally wouldn't skip that part
In any case, a person will need to study for the SQE1 and SQE2 exams, and the coursework in preparing for that is also like getting a degree. In addition to passing exams, one will need 2 years of Qualifiying Work Experience, which can be accomplished through pro bono work contract via a law clinic, which does become a challenge but is possible. I could always try to go the CILEX pathway to specialize in a specific area of law, and have my work assessed as qualifying experience.
The worst thing that can happen is "No". I would still have a law degree, nonetheless, and be wiser and potentially better at my job. It will help me run my own business if I choose to go that way, or in business in general, and in everyday dealings in life. I do not need to become a lawyer, but I want the opportunity to do so if I truly want to.
The UK LLB pathway works for me in those ways, but it may not for others. Recently I was looking at 1. An online teaching center which normally partners with 2. an online university, but that teaching center decided it also wanted to collaborate with 3. another digital university, which also partners with 4. yet another teaching institution, to offer a master's in international business law. I know that's a mouthful, but I did it to be funny. (In case you are wondering, 1. ENEB and 2. Universidad Isabel I, but ENEB decided to also collaborate with 3. Unimarconi, and Unimarconi has another separate arrangement with 4. UniAthena to offer a Master's in International Business Law).
That was interesting to me as it's business law, and my background is in sales and business. I learned that Italy is a civil law country and thus would not be very helpful for me in the law education context moving forward. The program would have also provided a postgraduate diploma from CIQ, which is not OfQual regulated, although CIQ does have other diplomas that are regulated by the Scottish Qualifications Framework (SQF). Even if the PGDip they gave me was under SQF and thus OfQual regulated, I learned that Scotland is part common law and part civil law, thus not so helpful down the line, regardless in NY. After looking more into it, I decided that a UK LLB, which allows one to potentially become qualified in England and Wales, both being under common law, would make me happier. Thus, I have redirected my focus. I have other educational plans thereafter, so it's not super critical for me to become a lawyer.