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+--- Thread: A word of warning about test-out degrees. (/Thread-A-word-of-warning-about-test-out-degrees)
A word of warning about test-out degrees. - JanusthePhoenix - 09-10-2010
It's been about 6 months since I completed my BS in General Business from Excelsior. It took me almost exactly a year from start to finish. You can see the breakdown of the credits in my sig.
I want to provide my real world experience so far, so that I can maybe help some of you avoid the disillusionment that might come afterward. My advice to those seeking a fast, test-credit degree like mine is to be absolutely sure what you are getting it for. Here are some legitimate reasons to get a non-specific, nontraditional degree like mine:
1) You cannot move up in your job without that piece of paper, regardless of where it's from or what it says.
2) You want to take it to the military and be an officer.
3) You need it as a pre-requisite for a professional degree.
I can't think of any others. Mine was reason number 3. I'm about to apply to University of Idaho Law School for fall 2011. (Plan all the way to the end so you don't miss deadlines!!) Reason number 2 was my plan B.
Allow me to share some things about employers these days that I have discovered firsthand. First, they don't need to hire people. It is a ludicrously one-sided job market right now, and they only want to hire people better than they already have. That means requirements for entry level positions are mind-numbingly demanding. The potential of a job seeker means nothing. They only care about what they have proven already. That means if you're fresh out of college and haven't had experience in your chosen field already, you're going to be screened out immediately by the people who busted their butts with internships or journals or projects, things that are largely unavailable to us as CLEP takers. In my case, I don't even have a chosen field. Employers see my degree and see not only a lack of experience, but potential headiness without anything to offset it. At worst, they see a person who doesn't know or care what he wants to be doing and is just taking what he can get. Not attractive to employers at all. In a real sense, my degree is hurting my resume right now. I knew it wasn't going to help me a whole bunch when I was working on it, but I never thought for a second it would actually damage my chances of landing a job.
Luckily for me, I only have to stay afloat for another 10 months or so before I can finally start setting my career path straight, so my degree is still going to serve its intended purpose. Still, I still allowed myself to hope that it would be of more use on its own, and I was very much let down.
The moral of this story is don't expect too much from something that costs so little (relatively) of your time and money. If you want your bachelors to stand on its own, CLEP away the fluff first and finish up the rest in a more traditional collegiate environment with all the trimmings that can get you the specialized training, education, internships, work studies, connections, and opportunities to prove yourself concretely. You're going to need it. And figure out what you want to do with it before you pick your major! When I was in the Navy, they always told me "Choose your rate, choose your fate." This advice was far more profound than I had ever known.
Again, I'm posting this as a warning to those who aren't looking where they're leaping. Good luck to all of you.
A word of warning about test-out degrees. - Maniac Craniac - 09-10-2010
Thank you for sharing your experiences.
If there is anything to learn from your example, its to
1) Have realistic expectations.
2) Have a clear plan.
3) A degree is JUST a degree. More is needed.
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that your degree is actually hurting you, as compared to not having one at all. You may be, for the reasons you mentioned, disadvantaged when compared to other students, but are you really worse off than someone who boasts no degree and an equal amount of experience?
A word of warning about test-out degrees. - sirjake - 09-10-2010
JanusthePhoenix Wrote:In a real sense, my degree is hurting my resume right now. I knew it wasn't going to help me a whole bunch when I was working on it, but I never thought for a second it would actually damage my chances of landing a job.
How do you see this as the case? If you've got legitimate skills that would have enabled you to get hired prior to obtaining a degree, those skills are still presumably available. I can't see any employer in his or her right mind denying you because you had the initiative to complete a degree. Even if it's a fairly meaningless degree, unless it's fraudulent, I can't think of any reason why they would deny you on those grounds. Can you elaborate on why or how you think this is the issue?
A word of warning about test-out degrees. - JanusthePhoenix - 09-10-2010
From what I understand, employers have traditionally perceived an applicant with a degree in the following ways:
1) They are more educated, more skilled, and generally more qualified to be a new hire for an expanding employer.
2) They need to be paid more.
3) They are more in demand, and thus more likely to jump ship when better offers come around. This makes them more "heady" than a non-degree holder as well.
Now take away the first perception. In this one-sided market where not many employers are expanding, and my generalized degree is not able to compete with specialized degree holders with specific experience, the first perception doesn't apply to me.
Now I'm left with only negative perceptions in many cases because of it. The best lead I have generated in the past couple of weeks was because I was able to grab the manager and explain my situation personally, attacking the negatives head on. Otherwise I am convinced they would have thrown my resume in the trash.
A word of warning about test-out degrees. - Lindagerr - 09-10-2010
1. you are young
2. you are young
3. the job market is a 8itch now
4 a degree can never really hurt you you need to present it right
5 attitude can be a big part of the equation
I am an over 40 and fabulous learner and I have got nothing but positive comments about my degree. I have been told it shows my determination and follow through. No one has held my lack of experience in my new field against me.
I know several just out of name brand B&M young people who can't get a job it is the current trend.
Knowing people and what you want in life and being able to substantiate that does help get a job.
Get out and volunteer, I have gotten several of my job leads from people I have met while working together on community projects.
Don't give up, my husband holding a BS from Rutgers and 30 years experience has been out of work 16 months. He just got a call tonight for a 3rd interview and they want to fly him to Colorodo to do it. This is the best hope we have had. It is hard, but you have to keep looking
A word of warning about test-out degrees. - skyfall123 - 09-10-2010
I understand that you may have a different career path in mind, but as a Navy vet with a business degree, you could probably apply for and be given preference for a job as a contract specialist anywhere in the country. The geezers are retiring and there is a shortage of young contract specialists. There is a need throughout the government. Good pay, great benefits, ability to move up quickly, and job security.
Quote:Federal Acquisition Intern Coalition
A word of warning about test-out degrees. - MomOfMany - 09-10-2010
Lindagerr Wrote:1. you are young
2. you are young
3. the job market is a 8itch now
4 a degree can never really hurt you you need to present it right
5 attitude can be a big part of the equation
I am an over 40 and fabulous learner and I have got nothing but positive comments about my degree. I have been told it shows my determination and follow through. No one has held my lack of experience in my new field against me.
I know several just out of name brand B&M young people who can't get a job it is the current trend.
Knowing people and what you want in life and being able to substantiate that does help get a job.
Get out and volunteer, I have gotten several of my job leads from people I have met while working together on community projects.
Don't give up, my husband holding a BS from Rutgers and 30 years experience has been out of work 16 months. He just got a call tonight for a 3rd interview and they want to fly him to Colorodo to do it. This is the best hope we have had. It is hard, but you have to keep looking
:iagree: completely.
My dh is in the same boat in a selective field and without a degree. He is flying to Michigan and then Tennessee for interviews next week. It's been 18 months without steady employment and a year if that was sans ANY employment. People are hip deep for jobs at McD right now and it just gets tougher from there for better jobs. A degree would do nothing but help my dh. Tremendously.
A word of warning about test-out degrees. - burbuja0512 - 09-11-2010
In today's market, you pretty much need two things to get a good job:
1) Experience
2) A degree
This may not be the case for certain fields, but for the most part, it's true. I'm in sales, which in the past hasn't always required a degree. It still doesn't require the degree, but you need a ton of good experience (and LOTS of networking) to get your resume past the recruiter. In many companies, even if your experience is awesome, your resume is not ever sent to the hiring manager because you're screened out.
I would imagine that the point that the author of this post was trying to make is not to expect every job you want to be yours simply because you have a degree. A degree with no experience will land you an entry-level job. But once you work your way up, you hopefully will be able to apply for more jobs that require the piece of paper.
A word of warning about test-out degrees. - JBjunior - 09-11-2010
Hmmm, I see it as your lack of experience is hurting you instead of your degree. Every job applicant regardless of where or how their degree was earned is hurt by lack of experience. It also depends on what type of jobs you are applying for. If it is a type of job where legitimate experience is more valid than a degree then you aren't going to stand a chance competing against those with proven track records.
A word of warning about test-out degrees. - irnbru - 09-11-2010
burbuja0512 Wrote:In today's market, you pretty much need two things to get a good job:
1) Experience
2) A degree
...
In many companies, even if your experience is awesome, your resume is not ever sent to the hiring manager because you're screened out.
This is also my experience. As has been flagged up in another thread, a large number of people here are working toward a degree primarily to achieve the 'tick in the box'. Like so many things, not having what everyone else might appear to have, reduces competitiveness. It's a foot in the door in a real sense in that, as burbuja describes, it's a simple (and lazy) step for HR to screen out non-degree holders.
In the UK, especially in the public services, there are fairly transparent and well-articulated guidelines for writing job specs. In particular, there is a catch for automatic requests for graduates in that equivalent experience should also be considered. Once applications are received, however, it's very easy to sift out the non-graduates. Private companies and organisations can obviously apply their own recruiting procedures which usually tend to the simpler (efficient!), i.e. no non-grads.
So, while getting a degree on top of a job and a family can seem like a herculean achievement, enough people are at the same level to make all that effort seem almost inconsequential. This will be common sense to most people in the forum who have been working for years. A degree is not a magic bullet; it's a tick in a box on a paper application which translates into a quick nod in an interview. It is probably worth much more if currently employed in an organisation as it demonstrates some strong personal characteristics, i.e. if you've already got a job, it will probably 'impress' more. Such is life
