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Paper Writing = Busy Work - sanantone - 10-27-2013
First of all, I think good writing skills are very important. I think all degree programs should have some essay writing in the mix. However, I think non-traditional schools tend to be excessive in the amount of writing they require. I've heard arguments that this mitigates cheating on online tests and that essay writing requires one to think instead of regurgitate facts on multiple choice, fill-in-the-blank, and true/false tests. My experience is that it is easy to bs your way through a paper and get an A or B.
I already knew that a lot of people who attend school online and on campus buy papers. Plagiarism software will not catch everyone because there are companies that do provide original works. After reading the article on the Shadow Scholar, my belief that anyone can bs his or her way through a paper was solidified. I think this guy was an English major, but he has written everything from discussion board posts to dissertations in business, education, psychology, maritime security, and several other subjects. All he has to do is give himself a crash course on Wikipedia and look for sources online to throw together a paper. It is disturbing that people who can't write well are graduating with degrees, but I also find it disturbing that schools think students will learn from writing papers on topics of such little importance and applicability. I remember being asked to write a memo at Colorado Technical University pretending that I was a sergeant asking for patrol officers. This was not a business writing course; it was a criminal justice course! What a waste of time. The coursework at Western International University, with the exception of the math courses, was nothing but writing. I learned absolutely nothing at that school.
As some might know, I am strongly opposed to TESC's capstone courses. From what I've read, you could be a history major and write a paper on fashion choices by region. It's ridiculous.
The Shadow Scholar - The Chronicle Review - The Chronicle of Higher Education
Paper Writing = Busy Work - JBtesc - 10-27-2013
I disagree with your thread title. lol
I do agree about cheating. I was recently told by a nurse who got their degree from an online RA school that they didn't have to take any proctored exams and that they bought their papers online. This combined with the fact that a friend is taking courses at a NA school right now and has shorter terms and seemingly zero writing assignments. I'd say well at least my degree is RA and going to get me further but his job accepts his school, because for some reason, even though they faked their accreditation and are therefore obviously morally bankrupt and shady as heck... the US government uses them for military and government employees.
So maybe I should be more bitter about how much I have to write (clearly I'm bitter lol) but I know that memorizing facts does not an education make. I know that at the end of the day that an education is what I actually want, not the piece of paper. I mean I want that too, lol, but more importantly I want to be educated.
I know that my friends who cheated or took the easy route do not have that.
Though it does bother me that I will be frequently lumped in with the "online cheaters" and "not really accredited" degree groups by people who don't know any better, again, at least I will know that i worked hard and actually got an education.
I don't think the capstone is too much to ask for a degree. They're "sending you out into the world" with their name on your piece of paper, I don't think they're wrong in trying to be sure (as best they can) that you can at least articulate your thoughts well.
But of course when it is time for my capstone I am sure I will be here probably every day begging for help and advice and saying how pointless the capstone is!
Paper Writing = Busy Work - sanantone - 10-27-2013
It's not just the online students who are buying their papers; students at traditional and prestigious schools also buy their papers. TESC's capstone would actually have a purpose if the student were required to write about something related to his/her major. I did learn a lot doing research for my papers in graduate school, but the only thing I learned from the actual writing part is how to fill space with bs. The 12-15 page papers they wanted could have been summed up in 5 pages.
Paper Writing = Busy Work - cookderosa - 10-27-2013
But here's the thing, and I tell this to my kids when they try and pull the "but so and so does it" card. You can't control what other people do; laws can't even do that. People break laws all day long, people violate academic integrity honor codes, people cheat and lie. The sooner you stop trying to take that on, you're free. Walk your own path.
Paper Writing = Busy Work - MISin08 - 10-29-2013
sanantone Wrote:I did learn a lot doing research for my papers in graduate school, but the only thing I learned from the actual writing part is how to fill space with bs. The 12-15 page papers they wanted could have been summed up in 5 pages.
It hit me for real (when I was considering writing a paper for my own enjoyment:ack
the other day that a college paper is just documentation of what you learned doing the research, not an end in itself. My senior year at EC I had a couple profs who made us keep paper length down so we would learn to economize and focus. In this 'pruning' I learned a lot about my subject. I really appreciated that.Phillip
Paper Writing = Busy Work - sanantone - 10-29-2013
cookderosa Wrote:But here's the thing, and I tell this to my kids when they try and pull the "but so and so does it" card. You can't control what other people do; laws can't even do that. People break laws all day long, people violate academic integrity honor codes, people cheat and lie. The sooner you stop trying to take that on, you're free. Walk your own path.
It's not that simple for me because I'm not just a student; I'm an educator.
Paper Writing = Busy Work - cookderosa - 10-29-2013
sanantone Wrote:It's not that simple for me because I'm not just a student; I'm an educator.
Sure it is! I've taught college level for 2 decades. You can't take it on. This isn't going to sound nice, but you know me and so I hope you know that I like you very much while you read this
But, by feeling personally responsible for your student's successes and failures and interest in the class (as opposed to their interest in the credential) you really are seeing education through a self-serving lens. A lens that puts you at elevated importance. That's not to say that teacher's don't impact students, they do!!! I have had a handful send me notes that brought me to tears (literally). But, to inject yourself into their life so deeply is really just serving your own needs. At the end of the day, the teacher is not who makes learning happen, it's the student. The student who wants to learn can't be stopped, and the student who wants to check the box can't be taught. (that's very rhyming lol, maybe I'll use it again) But, your role is a facilitator, nothing more. Now, back to the part where I think you're great! Know that when I say "you" I am speaking you the noun, not you the proper noun.
Paper Writing = Busy Work - Westerner - 10-29-2013
sanantone Wrote:The Shadow Scholar - The Chronicle Review - The Chronicle of Higher EducationThat article... Wow. Just wow.
Paper Writing = Busy Work - UptonSinclair - 10-30-2013
I am not sure if this addresses the point of your post, but I will run with it anyway. I would love to see writing assignments that are far more practical. As a student pursuing a technical focus, I would prefer to write papers in the language and style of my chosen profession. Instead, I am writing papers on classical rhetorical theory which make me want to stick a fork in my eye. In addition, there are some topics that just don't need to be addressed in essay format. Projects can go a long way toward demonstrating the ability to apply knowledge without having to write a narrative.
Give be a bulletted list or give me death.
Paper Writing = Busy Work - Westerner - 10-30-2013
UptonSinclair Wrote:In addition, there are some topics that just don't need to be addressed in essay format. Projects can go a long way to demonstrating the ability to apply knowledge without having to write a narrative.This ^ Oh yes. Many times I want (to have or to provide) a list of what's important, not a long ramble. I do agree with Sanantone's sentiments about the TESC Capstone, to an extent. It was quite a lot of repeating. But that's apparently how the Master's theses work, so it was good to learn how to do.
Give be a bulletted list or give me death.