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More crazy nutty student debt... - rebel100 - 11-30-2015
Posted on the other forum, perhaps the reigning champ of crazy irresponsible dumb student debt at nearly half a million bucks! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/missouri-high-school-teacher-ended-200000267.html
Story says she kicked it all off as a newly married mother just trying to get ahead.
More crazy nutty student debt... - Devanna - 11-30-2015
Wow. At least she acknowledges her responsibility in the matter. But wow...
More crazy nutty student debt... - LaterBloomer - 12-01-2015
It's folks like this who make me think that the government should NOT get involved in student debt. Folks make poor financial decisions and should face the results, or they'll never learn. Remember the housing bust? Guess what? There was a bust just 15 years earlier, and the government didn't aid anyone. (Trust me, I was one of the folks who suffered through that one.) Do folks really think that financial institutions are their friends? They aren't, but they're the ones who benefit when the government intervenes in debt issues. Those of us who don't make these mistakes pay for our fellow American's errors, and that money goes to help these financial institutions who are only out for themselves. Don't get me wrong. I'm concerned about folks who suffer job or health loss, but I don't want to reward stupid.
A thought just crossed my mind. Many of us have done well getting credit because of our life experiences. Some of us have gone after degrees because we see folks who have them who we think aren't as capable as we are, and those folks are getting ahead. Maybe I shouldn't gripe about my tax dollars going to help these folks. A co-worker with a master's degree who repeated would mistake coarse for course was a motivator for me to get a degree. If that idiot (I AM unkind) could do it, so could I. Maybe I owe them something after all.
That said, I have just put more thought into this issue in this post than many of those folks who go into that kind of debt. Scary, isn't it?
More crazy nutty student debt... - Leherself - 12-30-2015
I just don't understand what goes on in the mind of some of these folks. It's like people see the word "education" and their common sense does a complete disconnect, which is ironic in the extreme.
Why on earth did she keep going to school? Why did her teaching degree cost almost $200k? That's insane - especially considering the salary of an average teacher. And then she kept going?! WTF?
I'm totally on board with the idea that education is a good thing, but it does *not* have to cost you that much money. If you're getting an education for the sake of an education, then you should get one that you can afford. If you're getting a degree to become qualified in a particular career field, then you should evaluate your return on investment potential and make sure that your spending is proportional. Idiots running around getting degrees that cost them 10x their likely annual salary (or more!) are the definition of stupid, and no amount of "education" will improve it.
More crazy nutty student debt... - Exfactor - 12-30-2015
When degrees become status symbols situations like this manifest. Mix that in with someone coming from poverty, where a degree maybe their only way out; student loans become just a necessary option. From what I have seen most 100k + loan borrowers are either those who were on scholarships when the financial crisis occurred about 15 years ago. Where student loans became their only option to complete college/university. Many decided to enroll in schools they could't afford just to say they attended such and such school. Many had parents who lost their jobs, and could no longer afford out of pocket tuition, thus loans became an option. And those who come from lower SES who just took the risk. It's really no different from the people who get homes they can't afford, just to say they live in such and such neighborhood.
More crazy nutty student debt... - dfrecore - 12-30-2015
When she had a bachelor's degree, why did she need to go get a masters? High school teachers don't need a master's degree to work. And then to get a PhD? What was the point of all of that? Then there's the part where she took out loans to pay for daycare for her kids? I'm sorry, but that's not borrowing for tuition, that's borrowing to pay for a lifestyle you can't afford. She could have gotten a job, and paid for daycare until her kids were old enough to be in school, in which case there would not have been any daycare costs! Oh yeah, and then 25 years of not paying on a debt. There was just one bad decision on top of another, for 25 years. It's all just insanity.
And for anyone who talks about people in poverty not being able to afford college - anyone in poverty qualifies for pell grants. I have a nephew who went to school for free. Not a dime in student loans. And I wouldn't consider them "poverty" but the government does, so he gets to go to school for free. You can't tell me that the poorest kids have to take out student loans. I know WAY more kids who are taking out loans to go to private college or UC instead of CSU (University of CA instead of Cal State schools where the cost is 2x as much), or who want to live in the dorms or an apartment 15 minutes away from their parents house, than "poor" kids who go to the local cc and then go to CSU and live at home. The ones I know with the most debt are paying for lifestyle, not tuition.
More crazy nutty student debt... - Exfactor - 12-31-2015
dfrecore Wrote:And for anyone who talks about people in poverty not being able to afford college - anyone in poverty qualifies for pell grants. I have a nephew who went to school for free. Not a dime in student loans. And I wouldn't consider them "poverty" but the government does, so he gets to go to school for free. You can't tell me that the poorest kids have to take out student loans. I know WAY more kids who are taking out loans to go to private college or UC instead of CSU (University of CA instead of Cal State schools where the cost is 2x as much), or who want to live in the dorms or an apartment 15 minutes away from their parents house, than "poor" kids who go to the local cc and then go to CSU and live at home. The ones I know with the most debt are paying for lifestyle, not tuition.
I was the one who mentioned poverty. With the increase in tuition pell grants do not cover the full amount of a students tuition at many schools, and not all students seek to attend "the local community college." When I first began my college career I worked in the financial aid office at my local community college (work study), and you had to have little to no income to be given the full pell grant amount. For students who worked, but were still under the poverty line many had to take out loans to pay the remaining balance. So while most people may not see poverty as an issue it is. Pell grants do not cover everything.
More crazy nutty student debt... - dfrecore - 12-31-2015
Exfactor Wrote:I was the one who mentioned poverty. With the increase in tuition pell grants do not cover the full amount of a students tuition at many schools, and not all students seek to attend "the local community college." When I first began my college career I worked in the financial aid office at my local community college (work study), and you had to have little to no income to be given the full pell grant amount. For students who worked, but were still under the poverty line many had to take out loans to pay the remaining balance. So while most people may not see poverty as an issue it is. Pell grants do not cover everything.
When you say the word "poverty", I take that to mean the Federal poverty limit. 95.5% of Pell grants are given to students whose families make less than $50k. That is WELL above poverty. That's above the poverty level for a family of EIGHT. If you're talking a mom and 1 kid, she would have to make less than $15k to qualify as poverty-level, and that would certainly get a pell grant for the full amount.
And if the student decided to go to the local community college for 2 years and then the local state college for the remaining 2 years, the pell grant could conceivably cover the full cost of tuition for all 4 years of college; at minimum, you could work VERY part time and be able to afford to pay out of pocket.
Of course, this assumes that people will do what they can to avoid student loan debt. If they choose not to do those types of things to avoid debt, then please don't say it's because of "poverty" because most likely, it's not. It's because of choices made.
More crazy nutty student debt... - passit1 - 12-31-2015
The people who get in over their heads with student loans did not research options prior to making their decision. Any project needs to be fully researched with multiple options that have numbers for cost and time associated with them. From there the best option is usually very obvious. While moving forward with that option, leaving it open to adaption based on new information ensures it is tweaked to provide the best cost effective and productive outcome to meet the objective. If working the chosen option is not going well, considering if the original goal was correct should happen and course correct if needed.
I constantly get crap for doing this in my professional and personal life, leading me to believe that many people do not believe in proper planning. "Just get it done" is the refrain. Interestingly, when I pull the trigger the project typically is completed much more quickly that it would have been, costs less and has fewer errors than if the planning had been less comprehensive. Then everyone is all happy and forgets they were pains about the planning. No less than 3 discussions/arguments about cognitive decision bias occurred during my daughter's recent room renovation as my hubby and little miss fell in love with the first option they considered. Then when they realized it wasn't the right one, they fell in love with the very next option.They FINALLY considered 3 options complete with discussion and cost analysis (after making me crazy convincing them they had to do this) and an informed choice made. And they are thrilled with it. And it cost $300 less then their "love it gotta have it" option. (*eyeroll*)
"Just get it done" without thinking is why this woman has almost half a million dollars in debt. It's why people pay extra to say they live in a certain neighborhood and run up room/board costs when they could stay at home. It's why buyer's remorse is a phrase that exists. It's hard to choose paying more for an option that does not provide a better outcome when looking at options objectively.
More crazy nutty student debt... - Exfactor - 12-31-2015
dfrecore Wrote:When you say the word "poverty", I take that to mean the Federal poverty limit. 95.5% of Pell grants are given to students whose families make less than $50k. That is WELL above poverty. That's above the poverty level for a family of EIGHT. If you're talking a mom and 1 kid, she would have to make less than $15k to qualify as poverty-level, and that would certainly get a pell grant for the full amount.
And if the student decided to go to the local community college for 2 years and then the local state college for the remaining 2 years, the pell grant could conceivably cover the full cost of tuition for all 4 years of college; at minimum, you could work VERY part time and be able to afford to pay out of pocket.
Of course, this assumes that people will do what they can to avoid student loan debt. If they choose not to do those types of things to avoid debt, then please don't say it's because of "poverty" because most likely, it's not. It's because of choices made.
All students do not attend community colleges, which causes your hypothesis to discriminate against students who do not attend such institutions of higher learning. Do you come from "poverty" or a family of non-college graduates? Because trying to tell someone who comes from that sort of situation that "poverty" does not influence their financial, career, and educational choices is hysterical.