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+--- Thread: Arksansas - Where it's a crime to not pay rent. (/Thread-Arksansas-Where-it-s-a-crime-to-not-pay-rent)
Arksansas - Where it's a crime to not pay rent. - sanantone - 12-23-2018
Arkansas is the only state in the union that has criminalized not paying rent; yet, they don't have laws requiring landlords to maintain their properties. So, you can't withhold rent if your landlord refuses to make repairs. While landlords in Arkansas have the option of handling evictions civilly or criminally, the criminal process is chosen 90% of the time. Tenants who fail to pay their rent on time can be jailed. An attorney in the video I'm linking to says that he hasn't seen any tenant serve a day in jail for this "crime," but this still leaves people with a criminal record for being poor. This is what this law is; it criminalizes poverty and makes it even harder for people to come out of poverty. With Arkansas being such a poor state, they believe it's a good idea to waste taxpayer dollars on running poor people through the criminal justice system over a private contract.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G2Pk2JZP-E
RE: Arksansas - Where it's a crime to not pay rent. - mysonx3 - 12-23-2018
All I can say is yikes
RE: Arksansas - Where it's a crime to not pay rent. - MNomadic - 12-23-2018
Do landlords choose the "criminal" option 90% of the time because then more financial burden lies on the taxpayers than the landlord?
RE: Arksansas - Where it's a crime to not pay rent. - sanantone - 12-23-2018
(12-23-2018, 07:12 PM)MNomadic Wrote: Do landlords choose the "criminal" option 90% of the time because then more financial burden lies on the taxpayers than the landlord?
It's cheaper for them to file with criminal courts, and the government becomes responsible for collecting the rent.
Here's more current information on Arkansas' failure to evict law.
http://fairpropertylaws.org/basics/
RE: Arksansas - Where it's a crime to not pay rent. - videogamesrock - 12-23-2018
This law actually put Arkansas heavily on my radar in 2015. Having a second legal filing to motivate those to pay is beneficial to get people to pay. Also if you withhold rent because of untimely repairs you would also be in breach of the lease. At the same time, if the house becomes uninhabitable due to neglect, you can terminate the lease early and move out.
From a business perspective, landlord friendly states are where I generally invest in. I had some opportunities in Chicago a few years back, but with high taxes and tenant-friendly laws, we decided to invest in Tennessee and Indiana instead.
RE: Arksansas - Where it's a crime to not pay rent. - sanantone - 12-23-2018
(12-23-2018, 08:31 PM)videogamesrock Wrote: This law actually put Arkansas heavily on my radar in 2015. Having a second legal filing to motivate those to pay is beneficial to get people to pay. Also if you withhold rent because of untimely repairs you would also be in breach of the lease. At the same time, if the house becomes uninhabitable due to neglect, you can terminate the lease early and move out.
From a business perspective, landlord friendly states are where I generally invest in. I had some opportunities in Chicago a few years back, but with high taxes and tenant-friendly laws, we decided to invest in Tennessee and Indiana instead.
I can understand why landlords would like these laws; it favors them entirely. As a human being, though, I couldn't put someone in jail for not being able to pay their rent. As "business-friendly" as these laws are, Arkansas is still a poor state that isn't high on many people's lists of places to move to. Just think. They're the only state that does this, and they're still one of the poorest. Maybe they should focus more on lifting people out of poverty instead of punishing them for it.
RE: Arksansas - Where it's a crime to not pay rent. - videogamesrock - 12-23-2018
In the end, it is mutually beneficial to come up with an agreement rather than to go that route.
I just had a tenant who broke the lease, we agreed that he would continue to pay rent until I find a replacement including any tenant placement fees. It wound costing him about $3,600 and we both were happy in the end. Plus the new tenant wound up renting at a slightly higher rate. Turnover in rentals can actually have benefits especially when people are renting at a slightly lower than the market rate.
RE: Arksansas - Where it's a crime to not pay rent. - cookderosa - 12-23-2018
We've been a landlord twice. 6 years ago we had 2 apartments with 2 tenants. Fantastic men- paid on time or early. Clean, quiet, perfect. Literally zero trouble.
We *yesterday* just became landlords again. This time, we won't be renting to adult employed business professionals, our tenants will be teenage college students - which I'm more than a little bit nervous about. The only reason we're in this position is because our son is returning to school and we're providing HIS housing, which allows for renting out the rest of the property. But... not paying rent is a crime, it's stealing plain and simple. In fact, those rooms will sit empty if I don't feel totally comfortable that the person will (a) not destroy my property (b) won't be paying on time © have a parent co-sign. Even after being careful, you roll the dice and hope for the best. I'm thankful that this isn't our income/business - because despite the severity in Arkansas, landlords are always the ones risking the most.
RE: Arksansas - Where it's a crime to not pay rent. - mysonx3 - 12-23-2018
(12-23-2018, 11:46 PM)cookderosa Wrote: But... not paying rent is a crime, it's stealing plain and simple.
It's not though. Breach of contract and theft are two very different things. Stealing is taking something that doesn't belong to you. Not paying rent is not meeting your obligation. Not paying rent is not equal to stealing.
I do want to add a disclaimer to this thread's title, that it's not non-payment that's the crime. It's staying in a rented space after you have been evicted, which is much more defensible as a crime - you could argue that it's tantamount to trespassing. Still not a good system, but not quite as appalling as the thread title might sound.
RE: Arksansas - Where it's a crime to not pay rent. - sanantone - 12-24-2018
(12-23-2018, 11:57 PM)mysonx3 Wrote:(12-23-2018, 11:46 PM)cookderosa Wrote: But... not paying rent is a crime, it's stealing plain and simple.
It's not though. Breach of contract and theft are two very different things. Stealing is taking something that doesn't belong to you. Not paying rent is not meeting your obligation. Not paying rent is not equal to stealing.
I do want to add a disclaimer to this thread's title, that it's not non-payment that's the crime. It's staying in a rented space after you have been evicted, which is much more defensible as a crime - you could argue that it's tantamount to trespassing. Still not a good system, but not quite as appalling as the thread title might sound.
If you are one day late, it terminates the lease. Ten days after the lease is terminated and you get a notice, then you can be charged if you haven't vacated. That still means that, if you are one day late, you could be homeless. The original form of the law has been ruled unconstitutional.
(12-23-2018, 11:46 PM)cookderosa Wrote: We've been a landlord twice. 6 years ago we had 2 apartments with 2 tenants. Fantastic men- paid on time or early. Clean, quiet, perfect. Literally zero trouble.
We *yesterday* just became landlords again. This time, we won't be renting to adult employed business professionals, our tenants will be teenage college students - which I'm more than a little bit nervous about. The only reason we're in this position is because our son is returning to school and we're providing HIS housing, which allows for renting out the rest of the property. But... not paying rent is a crime, it's stealing plain and simple. In fact, those rooms will sit empty if I don't feel totally comfortable that the person will (a) not destroy my property (b) won't be paying on time © have a parent co-sign. Even after being careful, you roll the dice and hope for the best. I'm thankful that this isn't our income/business - because despite the severity in Arkansas, landlords are always the ones risking the most.
A crime is only a crime if there is a law making it a crime. If there is no law to violate, then it is not a crime.
Myson is correct. In every other state, this is a breach of contract, and the matter is handled through the civil court system. Law enforcement only gets involved if the tenants fail to vacate by the deadline given to them. Most of the time, landlords only have to lock the tenants out.