(06-14-2021, 05:54 PM)ss20ts Wrote: Bringing up Coursera and edX has left me confused. I'm working on a certificate on Coursera from Columbia University right now. The courses are on Coursera not Columbia's website. I'm also going to be completing a certificate on edX from RIT which again is on edX not RIT's website. So would leave Coursera and edX off when listing the certificates and just list Columbia and RIT? Man this stuff is so complicated these days!

(06-14-2021, 05:11 PM)innen_oda Wrote:

(06-14-2021, 03:35 PM)Flelm Wrote:

Code:

EDUCATION

Thomas Edison State University, Trenton, NJ
2016 - 2021
B.S. Business Administration (Operations Management Concentration)

ENEB Business School, Barcelona, Spain
2021 - 2023
Master Titulo Propio in Project Management (comparable to graduate certificate)

Unsolicited advice, if this is actually how you're listing stuff on your CV:
- get rid of the word 'concentration'. Yes, technically there's a difference between a major and a concentration, but it's not important enough to distinguish here.
- take out the 'comparable to . . . ' stuff. Titulo Propio Master (in whatever)' is sufficient. You can explain the details when (if) asked.
- use the same structure for describing majors/specialisations/concentrations across all degree levels. So if your format for the undergrad is 'BA (English)', don't list post-grad as 'Masters in Arts - Journalism'. I've seen it happen again and again, and while it's not a deal-breaker, it's a sign of poor attention to detail and lack of consistency.
- white space is your friend, and will make your hiring manager happy. I'm not sure of the value of listing the location of your universities, although I note it is a common preference for applicants. I find it distracting, and it doesn't add much to shortlisting decisions.

(06-14-2021, 06:05 PM)Thorne Wrote: I think it's disingenuous to say that there is no course content from Isabel. At the very least, we know from the articulation agreement between ENEB and UI1 (a document that can be found on the ENEB website) that Isabel approved the course content and the degree program. They also issue their own full degree that can be verified on their website in addition to ENEB's degree. They do not, however, issue transcripts

(06-14-2021, 06:05 PM)Thorne Wrote: Plus, we already see this happening with the many programs people on this forum have already completed. If you were an OG at TESU and only did the capstone with them, it's possible that TESU just basically vouches for all the Straighterline, Study.com, Saylor, etc credits and stamps their seal of approval on your degree saying, "Yup, we issued it!" 

As a counterpoint, do you note on your CV that you only did two classes at TESU to complete your BA Psych? Do you consider that to be a legit TESU degree even though you had very limited interaction with TESU, their faculty, or their curriculum? You absolutely should, but the line of thinking that leads to it being disingenuous to claim that a degree from a school came from that school also leads to wondering whether a degree based solely on transfer credit with one class should also fall under the same umbrella.

[...]

I don't know, maybe you should just for the sake of disclosing all the information. I, for one, am going to start listing my WGU degree as:

Bachelor of Science in Information Technology - Security from Western Governors University, awarded as a result of 35 credits completed at the institution, 53 credits completed at [Community College], 6 credits approved by ACE, and my formerly-but-not-presently-held CCNP and CCNA Security certifications evaluated as equivalent to 29 credits by the institution.

That's the only way to handle this, clearly /s

(06-14-2021, 05:58 PM)innen_oda Wrote: Hard disagree...

(06-14-2021, 08:04 PM)jsd Wrote: If this is the case, it makes a little more sense to me with them issuing a UI1 degree themselves. confused why they would do that without a transcript, but if that's the weird system they have for their programs in Spain, so be it. As long as there is a way UI1 lets you verify your degree with UI1, that makes sense to me.

(06-14-2021, 07:18 PM)Flelm Wrote: Thanks for the feedback. I am in fact listing my TESU degree that way, although I do appreciate the fact that "concentration in" is unnecessary. I threw the ENEB on there as an example, and would definitely want the formats to match.

I did some amateur googling. This website (https://www.ccelpa.org/como-se-hace-un-curriculum-vitae/) says that a titulo propio can go in the education or additional training sections, depending on what you want to highlight. This website (https://www.ceupe.com/blog/titulo-propio-todo-lo-que-debes-saber-si-quieres-estudiarlo.html) indicates that a titulo propio should not be held to be the same as a standard university master's degree (although they have a vested interest in saying that since they offer titulos oficiales). This thread (https://www.spaniards.es/foros/2013/09/03/curriculum-master-titulo-propio) from 2013 runs the gamut, from calling it out as a non-Bologna degree to just calling it a Master's since that's what it is. Finally, for public/state jobs, titulos propios usually count as continuing education credits, or at least lesser than titulos oficiales.

I think I've come to see the titulo propio as the equivalent to a US nationally accredited degree, and I would not call attention to that on a resume. I think I would list this as just a Masters in Project Management in my education section, listed with ENEB. I don't think I would explain it any more, I don't think I would list an MBA from them, and I definitely wouldn't put Isabel I. Final answer!

(06-14-2021, 06:13 PM)rachel83az Wrote:

(06-14-2021, 05:54 PM)ss20ts Wrote: Bringing up Coursera and edX has left me confused. I'm working on a certificate on Coursera from Columbia University right now. The courses are on Coursera not Columbia's website. I'm also going to be completing a certificate on edX from RIT which again is on edX not RIT's website. So would leave Coursera and edX off when listing the certificates and just list Columbia and RIT? Man this stuff is so complicated these days!

For the Google IT Support Professional Certificate, Google helpfully shares how you should add the certificate to your LinkedIn and resume. None of the examples mention Coursera.

(06-14-2021, 08:33 PM)eLearner Wrote: I think I've come to see the titulo propio as the equivalent to a US nationally accredited degree

The comparison doesn't work in the U.S. context. An NA degree doesn't stop you from working in U.S. government or entering a U.S. Doctoral program the way a propio in Spain stops you from Spanish government work or entering a Doctoral program in Spain. Funnily enough, a propio from Spain used in America doesn't stop you from doing those things in American either. The other thing is, if you go to work in an official U.S. government position or try to enter a U.S. Doctoral program you'll more than likely be getting a foreign credential evaluation at some point, and it's at that point your propio will either be determined as equivalent to a U.S. regionally accredited credential or U.S. non-accredited, but never nationally accredited as--to my knowledge-- there are no evaluators who evaluate for NA equivalence.

(06-14-2021, 09:23 PM)Flelm Wrote:

(06-14-2021, 08:33 PM)eLearner Wrote: I think I've come to see the titulo propio as the equivalent to a US nationally accredited degree

The comparison doesn't work in the U.S. context. An NA degree doesn't stop you from working in U.S. government or entering a U.S. Doctoral program the way a propio in Spain stops you from Spanish government work or entering a Doctoral program in Spain. Funnily enough, a propio from Spain used in America doesn't stop you from doing those things in American either. The other thing is, if you go to work in an official U.S. government position or try to enter a U.S. Doctoral program you'll more than likely be getting a foreign credential evaluation at some point, and it's at that point your propio will either be determined as equivalent to a U.S. regionally accredited credential or U.S. non-accredited, but never nationally accredited as--to my knowledge-- there are no evaluators who evaluate for NA equivalence.

Phew, there's a lot to unpack here, and I really don't want to turn this into a rehash of the other thread. Let me start by saying that I do not mean to make any objective value statements with my posts. I am speaking about how I feel, and my interpretation of a titulo propio's reputation. I agree that online articles and everything else have their own biases, and you need to take all that information into account. I agree that no foreign credit evaluator will say it's equivalent to a nationally accredited degree. I mean that I feel (and you can't tell me that how I feel is wrong) like a titulo propio in Spain may have the reputation a NA degree has in the US: Most don't care, and those that do are mostly in academia, and only care because they have a titulo oficial.

Here's what I disagree with (in this thread, not with you specifically): I personally believe that listing Universidad Isabel I as the degree-granting institution is disingenuous at best, and a lie at worst. I feel that putting ENEB, or European Business School of Barcelona, as the granting institution is much more correct.

I have searched through publicly-available CVs of Spainards, and they do not differentiate between a titulo propio and titulo oficial. The name of the school seems to do that on its own in Spain. Hiring managers recognize that a "business school" is likely a titulo propio, and a "university" is a titulo oficial. This may not always be true (https://www.nebrija.com/en/postgraduate-degree/ is proof that Spanish Universities deliver titulo propio degrees), of course, but it's the conclusion I'm going to jump to with a small sample size, and that fact that it really doesn't matter to me and my career plans.

(06-14-2021, 09:43 PM)eLearner Wrote: Just to let you know, ENEB itself has in the past communicated how to list the credentials. They have said it is perfectly acceptable to list Isabel, and they have also gone on to list all of the different conventions that it can be listed as (Isabel I University, Isabel International University, and a number of other combinations in Spanish, I posted about this here sometime in 2020).

(06-14-2021, 08:04 PM)jsd Wrote: -snip-

(06-14-2021, 10:03 PM)Flelm Wrote:

(06-14-2021, 09:43 PM)eLearner Wrote: Just to let you know, ENEB itself has in the past communicated how to list the credentials. They have said it is perfectly acceptable to list Isabel, and they have also gone on to list all of the different conventions that it can be listed as (Isabel I University, Isabel International University, and a number of other combinations in Spanish, I posted about this here sometime in 2020).

Do you mind linking those communications if you have them handy?

The one diploma I've seen says that Isabel "notes" and "certifies" that the degree has been "imparted by [ENEB]". That, to me, says they're acting as an accreditation body for this degree and not a granting institution. I would not list my degree as coming from Isabel.

Quote:With the aim of clarifying in advance any questions you may have in this regard, this document serves to certify that the Isabel I University grants its own degree to the following programs of the Europa Business School of Barcelona (ENEB):

(06-14-2021, 10:10 PM)Thorne Wrote: I'm not involved in those (but many have been posted in the original thread). However, I can give you a link to one such piece of information that is quite important to the accrediting vs awarding body: https://eneb.es/Documents/ConvenioENEB_Ui1.pdf

This states, in black and white:

Quote:With the aim of clarifying in advance any questions you may have in this regard, this document serves to certify that the Isabel I University grants its own degree to the following programs of the Europa Business School of Barcelona (ENEB):

That, plus the verification and the Isabel diploma, are why I'll list it as coming from Isabel and not ENEB.