(03-10-2025, 11:06 AM)LevelUP Wrote: This is a cool-looking electric compact pickup truck with a starting price of $42,000. The truck offers substantial utility and achieves approximately 3 miles per kilowatt-hour—comparable to the efficiency of the Model Y.

Quote:Tesla should consider offering a compact truck. While their Cybertruck is visually appealing, its starting price of $80,000 makes it more of a luxury toy, similar to the Hummer. In contrast, Rivian’s offerings start at $70,000 yet only achieve about 2.2 miles per kilowatt-hour.

Quote:In another case, a family ditched their $110,000 Ford F-150 electric truck during a drive from Winnipeg to Chicago after experiencing charging troubles. The main complaints were that it took two hours to charge and cost more than gasoline.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/electric-vehicle-trip-charging-infrastructure-1.6932074

(03-11-2025, 12:00 AM)Ares Wrote: There would not even be a market for them if not for tax payer subsidies.

• launch/acceleration can be a lot of fun
  
• home solar power can save money if done frugally, and that savings can extend to the EV
  
• similarly, some employers offer free charging
  
• the battery pack can provide some level of backup power to the house
  
• did I mention acceleration?
  

(03-10-2025, 11:44 PM)NotJoeBiden Wrote: Elon said his Swasticar would start at  $39,900 to get interest and did a bait and switch. Everything I have seen about it shows it isn’t worth it’s price tag due to quality concers. Rivians are much better, but still expensive and limited.

(03-11-2025, 12:00 AM)Ares Wrote: The problem with electric vehicles:

1. Electric vehicles battery packs weigh half a ton and due to their weight cause twice the amount of road damage of equivalent non-electric vehicles.
2. Electric vehicles tires wear out 30% faster than equivalent non-electric vehicles.
3. Electric vehicles battery's degrade at a rate of 2-3% per year, thus your max range decreases over time.
4. Electric Vehicles take a very long time (hours) to fully charge compared to equivalent non-electric vehicles which can fill up in 5 minutes to max range.
5. Electric vehicles can catch fire from being flooded by salt water due to a storm.
6. Electric vehicles can take 40 times more water to extinguish the fires compared to non-electric vehicles.
7. Electric vehicles are on average $12,000 more expensive than an equivalent non-electric vehicle.

There would not even be a market for them if not for tax payer subsidies.

1. Battery Weight
   Although the battery pack weighs about 1,000 pounds, some components—such as the engine—are much lighter in electric cars. As a result, an electric car may only weigh around 600 pounds more overall, despite having a 1,000-pound battery.
   
   
2. Battery Degradation and Range
   A 220-mile range was acceptable for early Model 3 consumers, but today’s buyers typically expect an average range of around 335 miles. For example, a 330-mile range battery could degrade by 10% in five years, reducing its range to 300 miles. When supercharged up to 80% capacity, that 300-mile battery might realistically provide only about 240 miles of range on long trips with 30-minute charging stops.
   
   
3. Charging Time
   Currently, a Tesla Model S/3/Y takes about 30 minutes to charge from 10% to 80% using a Supercharger, and it typically takes under 10 hours to fully charge on a home 32-amp charger. However, CATL has developed a 4C LFP battery that reportedly can charge in 15 minutes or less so there is hope for the future.
   CATL News
   
   
4. Fire Risks
   LFP batteries do not share the same fire hazard because their chemistry is non-flammable. Fires involving other types of batteries are very rare—roughly as rare as being struck by lightning.
   
   
5. Cost Comparison with Conventional Vehicles
   In China, the best-selling EV is the BYD Seagull, priced between $10,000 and $12,000. In China, it is currently cheaper to manufacture an EV than an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle. Thanks to lower production costs and falling battery prices, this trend is expected to extend to the U.S. and the rest of the world in the next 2–3 years.
   EV Charging News- Cost to Produce EVs
   
   By 2027, one in three cars sold in the U.S. could be an EV.
   EV Sales Analysis – Yale Environment 360
   

(03-11-2025, 12:00 AM)Ares Wrote: The problem with electric vehicles:

1. Electric vehicles battery packs weigh half a ton and due to their weight cause twice the amount of road damage of equivalent non-electric vehicles.
2. Electric vehicles tires wear out 30% faster than equivalent non-electric vehicles.
3. Electric vehicles battery's degrade at a rate of 2-3% per year, thus your max range decreases over time.
4. Electric Vehicles take a very long time (hours) to fully charge compared to equivalent non-electric vehicles which can fill up in 5 minutes to max range.
5. Electric vehicles can catch fire from being flooded by salt water due to a storm.
6. Electric vehicles can take 40 times more water to extinguish the fires compared to non-electric vehicles.
7. Electric vehicles are on average $12,000 more expensive than an equivalent non-electric vehicle.

There would not even be a market for them if not for tax payer subsidies.

(03-11-2025, 02:14 PM)NotJoeBiden Wrote:

(03-11-2025, 12:00 AM)Ares Wrote: The problem with electric vehicles:

1. Electric vehicles battery packs weigh half a ton and due to their weight cause twice the amount of road damage of equivalent non-electric vehicles.
2. Electric vehicles tires wear out 30% faster than equivalent non-electric vehicles.
3. Electric vehicles battery's degrade at a rate of 2-3% per year, thus your max range decreases over time.
4. Electric Vehicles take a very long time (hours) to fully charge compared to equivalent non-electric vehicles which can fill up in 5 minutes to max range.
5. Electric vehicles can catch fire from being flooded by salt water due to a storm.
6. Electric vehicles can take 40 times more water to extinguish the fires compared to non-electric vehicles.
7. Electric vehicles are on average $12,000 more expensive than an equivalent non-electric vehicle.

There would not even be a market for them if not for tax payer subsidies.

You do realize people have been using electric cars since the 1800s, right? They have always existed, they are just getting more affordable even without subsidies. As solar energy grows as a cheaper form of energy, the demand for electric cars will grow.

Also, you are purposely selecting downsides of electric vehicles while also ignoring upsides as well as the downsides of the alternatives. Gasoline powered cars are ripe with issues themselves from excess repair, oil leakage, emissions, etc. Neither is perfect, but electric makes more sense for the future of the US as we have an abundance of solar energy while oil and gas are limited and becoming increasingly expensive to extract as well as subject to the global market perturbations.

This is coming from someone who also does not own an electric car.

(03-11-2025, 03:34 PM)Ares Wrote:

(03-11-2025, 02:14 PM)NotJoeBiden Wrote:

(03-11-2025, 12:00 AM)Ares Wrote: The problem with electric vehicles:

1. Electric vehicles battery packs weigh half a ton and due to their weight cause twice the amount of road damage of equivalent non-electric vehicles.
2. Electric vehicles tires wear out 30% faster than equivalent non-electric vehicles.
3. Electric vehicles battery's degrade at a rate of 2-3% per year, thus your max range decreases over time.
4. Electric Vehicles take a very long time (hours) to fully charge compared to equivalent non-electric vehicles which can fill up in 5 minutes to max range.
5. Electric vehicles can catch fire from being flooded by salt water due to a storm.
6. Electric vehicles can take 40 times more water to extinguish the fires compared to non-electric vehicles.
7. Electric vehicles are on average $12,000 more expensive than an equivalent non-electric vehicle.

There would not even be a market for them if not for tax payer subsidies.

You do realize people have been using electric cars since the 1800s, right? They have always existed, they are just getting more affordable even without subsidies. As solar energy grows as a cheaper form of energy, the demand for electric cars will grow.

Also, you are purposely selecting downsides of electric vehicles while also ignoring upsides as well as the downsides of the alternatives. Gasoline powered cars are ripe with issues themselves from excess repair, oil leakage, emissions, etc. Neither is perfect, but electric makes more sense for the future of the US as we have an abundance of solar energy while oil and gas are limited and becoming increasingly expensive to extract as well as subject to the global market perturbations.

This is coming from someone who also does not own an electric car.

There is a reason no market developed for electric cars in the 1800's and since. Without government intervention Tesla would have went bankrupt in 2009.

There is no upside except virtue signaling. Car Manufacturers like Honda and Toyota do not have excessive repairs or oil leakage problems. Liquid fuels are the most efficient form of energy for vehicles. Solar power is literally the most expensive form of power generation and is unreliable. Without government subsidies solar panels are not worth the cost to buy them. The only form or energy more efficient than oil and gas is nuclear. Peak oil is a myth and every time they claim we are running out they find more. Thanks to socialism, the world's largest oil reserves in Venezuela are being squandered. Socialism destroys everything is touches. If you want cheap and abundant electricity then you want to build nuclear power plants and the new designs are safer than ever.

(03-11-2025, 06:45 PM)NotJoeBiden Wrote: Electric cars were made and continue to be made by many other manufacturers other than Tesla.