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+--- Thread: What would you tell the Provost of Charter Oak State College? (/Thread-What-would-you-tell-the-Provost-of-Charter-Oak-State-College)
RE: What would you tell the Provost of Charter Oak State College? - origamishuttle - 06-17-2025
Thank you for the update! While their approach is understandable, it confirms that they have all but shut the door on 114-credit graduates like us. The fact that they gutted Study.com UL credits based on an informal, and presumably cursory and incomplete, review of material, not a thorough review of work required to complete courses, indicates that they don't understand or care about alt credit students, despite claiming otherwise. It's lip service and diplomacy from leadership, nothing more. I am in the position of having done all the work for four bachelor's degrees at WGU, COSC, TESU, UMPI, Sophia, and Study.com, so I know that the level of work required at each is not appreciably different. They would know this too if they actually cared to find out. I'm disappointed but not surprised.
RE: What would you tell the Provost of Charter Oak State College? - SteveFoerster - 06-17-2025
(06-17-2025, 03:29 PM)origamishuttle Wrote: Thank you for the update! While their approach is understandable, it confirms that they have all but shut the door on 114-credit graduates like us.
That's literally the opposite of what I said. They're making it a point to keep the 114 option open. It's a very small market for them, and one that doesn't lead to much revenue. They didn't have to keep the option open, and they did.
(06-17-2025, 03:29 PM)origamishuttle Wrote: The fact that they gutted Study.com UL credits based on an informal, and presumably cursory and incomplete, review of material, not a thorough review of work required to complete courses, indicates that they don't understand or care about alt credit students, despite claiming otherwise.
It was not "informal", and everything after the word "presumably" was just stuff you made up.
(06-17-2025, 03:29 PM)origamishuttle Wrote: It's lip service and diplomacy from leadership, nothing more. I am in the position of having done all the work for four bachelor's degrees at WGU, COSC, TESU, UMPI, Sophia, and Study.com, so I know that the level of work required at each is not appreciably different. They would know this too if they actually cared to find out. I'm disappointed but not surprised.
Dr. Ferreira wasn't the only one in the meeting, COSC President Ed Klonoski was too. I've known Ed for over fifteen years. Your reaction to this is way, way off base.
The bottom like is that it's still easier to earn a degree from COSC than it was when I did it in 2005. You should be relieved, not bitter.
RE: What would you tell the Provost of Charter Oak State College? - origamishuttle - 06-18-2025
(06-17-2025, 04:09 PM)SteveFoerster Wrote:(06-17-2025, 03:29 PM)origamishuttle Wrote: Thank you for the update! While their approach is understandable, it confirms that they have all but shut the door on 114-credit graduates like us.
That's literally the opposite of what I said. They're making it a point to keep the 114 option open. It's a very small market for them, and one that doesn't lead to much revenue. They didn't have to keep the option open, and they did.
Once again, thank you for the response. I appreciate what you do and that you're sharing with us here. I want to clarify that I was not attempting to oppose what you communicated. This is my honest perspective on where COSC stands today.
It is true that, technically, 114 credits transferred toward the General Studies degree is still possible. At the same time, there is no degree plan to actually transfer 114 credits. This is because a student would have had to complete virtually all the UL courses at other schools, and they would need to be, through pure coincidence, transferrable to their degree at COSC. That's why I used the phrase "all but" - the door is not officially shut, although, in effect, it is.
(06-17-2025, 04:09 PM)SteveFoerster Wrote:(06-17-2025, 03:29 PM)origamishuttle Wrote: The fact that they gutted Study.com UL credits based on an informal, and presumably cursory and incomplete, review of material, not a thorough review of work required to complete courses, indicates that they don't understand or care about alt credit students, despite claiming otherwise.
It was not "informal", and everything after the word "presumably" was just stuff you made up.
The way you talked about their review of courses seemed to focus on staff opinion, which is more likely to be part of an informal process than not. If you combine this with the fact that they gutted Study.com UL courses in one fell swoop, the appearance is that they saw some things they didn't like and decided to cut and run. I'm happy to be wrong about this, so if you have more information about their review process and how they fought to keep as many UL courses as possible, please share with us.
(06-17-2025, 04:09 PM)SteveFoerster Wrote:(06-17-2025, 03:29 PM)origamishuttle Wrote: It's lip service and diplomacy from leadership, nothing more. I am in the position of having done all the work for four bachelor's degrees at WGU, COSC, TESU, UMPI, Sophia, and Study.com, so I know that the level of work required at each is not appreciably different. They would know this too if they actually cared to find out. I'm disappointed but not surprised.
Dr. Ferreira wasn't the only one in the meeting, COSC President Ed Klonoski was too. I've known Ed for over fifteen years. Your reaction to this is way, way off base.
The bottom like is that it's still easier to earn a degree from COSC than it was when I did it in 2005. You should be relieved, not bitter.
It seems as if you've interpreted my post as an affront to people you know, respect, and have possibly befriended. Please know that this was not my intent at all.
I understand that there are specific pressures and expectations of leadership roles, requiring a careful attention to politics and walking a narrow line to keep everyone happy. I respect that they're in a difficult position where they need to constantly weigh opposing needs and perspectives, so concessions must be made, and they do a good job of keeping it all in balance. For my part, there is no bitterness or relief, only realism.
Again, I would love to recommend COSC because I know firsthand that it's a good school. However, until there is a new path to a 114-credit degree using alt credit, COSC can't compete with most of the schools we recommend here.
RE: What would you tell the Provost of Charter Oak State College? - SteveFoerster - 06-18-2025
Well, that's fair enough. Because it's still recent (to me) development, one thing I didn't think about that does make it a challenge is that the demise of UExcel.
It looks like there are still three or four Study.com ULs, mostly in business topics, that Charter Oak will take, but that's not enough to fill the requirements. I guess the closest fit when it comes to acceptable self-paced online courses is LSU's self paced courses, but I'd concede that they're very pricy.
Still even if 114 is aspirational, that's still easier than 90.
RE: What would you tell the Provost of Charter Oak State College? - origamishuttle - 06-18-2025
(06-18-2025, 08:01 PM)SteveFoerster Wrote: Well, that's fair enough. Because it's still recent (to me) development, one thing I didn't think about that does make it a challenge is that the demise of UExcel.
This is an excellent point. I actually thought about this too. I agree that it's a big piece of the puzzle, and in defense of COSC, it was completely out of their control. If UExcel still existed, it would make many degree plans easier, at COSC and elsewhere.
(06-18-2025, 08:01 PM)SteveFoerster Wrote: It looks like there are still three or four Study.com ULs, mostly in business topics, that Charter Oak will take, but that's not enough to fill the requirements. I guess the closest fit when it comes to acceptable self-paced online courses is LSU's self paced courses, but I'd concede that they're very pricy.
Yes, it's true that these can help in limited scenarios. I'm also wondering if UoPeople could be a good source of transfer credit to COSC now that they're RA?
(06-18-2025, 08:01 PM)SteveFoerster Wrote: Still even if 114 is aspirational, that's still easier than 90.
I actually suspect that 90 credits may be pretty good with the right plan. COSC's per-credit tuition is competitive with SNHU, so it could be somewhat compelling. I think what holds many students back is overall fewer alt credit courses that transfer, more fees, and far fewer options for majors. Still though, at some point I'd like to play around with some 90-credit COSC degree plans to see how they stack up against SNHU.
RE: What would you tell the Provost of Charter Oak State College? - Jonathan Whatley - 06-19-2025
(06-18-2025, 08:01 PM)SteveFoerster Wrote: Because it's still recent (to me) development, one thing I didn't think about that does make it a challenge is that the demise of UExcel.
And the demise of upper-level DSSTs. And the twilight of GRE Subject Tests which used to get a bundle of credit at Charter Oak, partly upper-level (Charter Oak no longer gives credit for them, and there are now only three Subject Tests anyway, psychology, mathematics, and physics; there were once more than a dozen).
RE: What would you tell the Provost of Charter Oak State College? - SteveFoerster - 06-19-2025
(06-19-2025, 02:44 AM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote:(06-18-2025, 08:01 PM)SteveFoerster Wrote: Because it's still recent (to me) development, one thing I didn't think about that does make it a challenge is that the demise of UExcel.
And the demise of upper-level DSSTs. And the twilight of GRE Subject Tests which used to get a bundle of credit at Charter Oak, partly upper-level (Charter Oak no longer gives credit for them, and there are now only three Subject Tests anyway, psychology, mathematics, and physics; there were once more than a dozen).
When I was doing all this mumble years ago, they didn't have any of the Four S's, and I stuck to CLEP because they were the cheapest, it wasn't hard to find free study guides for them online, and most importantly they let you know immediately whether you'd passed. I might have done some DSSTs but for that last bit, the uncertainty would have killed me!
I did briefly consider the Computer Science GRE, but it was notoriously difficult, so I wimped out and did an Information Systems concentration instead of a Computer Science one. My only goal was to get into the Master's program I'd decided on, so which undergraduate disciple didn't matter much.
(06-18-2025, 09:14 PM)origamishuttle Wrote:(06-18-2025, 08:01 PM)SteveFoerster Wrote: Well, that's fair enough. Because it's still recent (to me) development, one thing I didn't think about that does make it a challenge is that the demise of UExcel.
This is an excellent point. I actually thought about this too. I agree that it's a big piece of the puzzle, and in defense of COSC, it was completely out of their control. If UExcel still existed, it would make many degree plans easier, at COSC and elsewhere.
It surely would!
(06-18-2025, 09:14 PM)origamishuttle Wrote:(06-18-2025, 08:01 PM)SteveFoerster Wrote: It looks like there are still three or four Study.com ULs, mostly in business topics, that Charter Oak will take, but that's not enough to fill the requirements. I guess the closest fit when it comes to acceptable self-paced online courses is LSU's self paced courses, but I'd concede that they're very pricy.
Yes, it's true that these can help in limited scenarios. I'm also wondering if UoPeople could be a good source of transfer credit to COSC now that they're RA?
Are UoPeople courses self paced? If so then I would say they're the closest to ideal that we have. (Since I didn't know I didn't mention them.) LSU is far, far too expensive for what they are.
(06-18-2025, 09:14 PM)origamishuttle Wrote: I actually suspect that 90 credits may be pretty good with the right plan. COSC's per-credit tuition is competitive with SNHU, so it could be somewhat compelling. I think what holds many students back is overall fewer alt credit courses that transfer, more fees, and far fewer options for majors. Still though, at some point I'd like to play around with some 90-credit COSC degree plans to see how they stack up against SNHU.
That would be interesting. Given that the bigger schools get the more they tend to attract negative attention (however unfairly), even if all other things were equal I'd probably prefer COSC. But of course, those aren't the only choices.
RE: What would you tell the Provost of Charter Oak State College? - Jonathan Whatley - 06-19-2025
Last I heard UoPeople does not admit transient students for individual courses. You could enroll in a full degree program or certificate program and transfer credit out and finish elsewhere later, but you’d have to take the courses in the order UoPeople assigns. Course fees in a certificate program are higher than course fees in a degree program. If you have credit from elsewhere that would free you from having to take a course in your UoP program, you could transfer it in to UoP – but UoP generally has fees to transfer credit in.
RE: What would you tell the Provost of Charter Oak State College? - SteveFoerster - 06-19-2025
(06-19-2025, 10:58 AM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote: Last I heard UoPeople does not admit transient students for individual courses. You could enroll in a full degree program or certificate program and transfer credit out and finish elsewhere later, but you’d have to take the courses in the order UoPeople assigns. Course fees in a certificate program are higher than course fees in a degree program. If you have credit from elsewhere that would free you from having to take a course in your UoP program, you could transfer it in to UoP – but UoP generally has fees to transfer credit in.
They have such a rigid sequence for taking courses that you can't even enroll and then take only what you know you want to transfer and then bug out? I might understand that if they didn't have an admission fee, but since they do, that seems a bit unhelpful.
RE: What would you tell the Provost of Charter Oak State College? - origamishuttle - 06-19-2025
(06-19-2025, 10:46 AM)SteveFoerster Wrote: Are UoPeople courses self paced? If so then I would say they're the closest to ideal that we have. (Since I didn't know I didn't mention them.) LSU is far, far too expensive for what they are.
Unfortunately, no, they're not. Their greatest advantage is affordability for RA credits, although that could degrade over time if they continue to raise their fees.
(06-19-2025, 10:58 AM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote: Last I heard UoPeople does not admit transient students for individual courses. You could enroll in a full degree program or certificate program and transfer credit out and finish elsewhere later, but you’d have to take the courses in the order UoPeople assigns. Course fees in a certificate program are higher than course fees in a degree program. If you have credit from elsewhere that would free you from having to take a course in your UoP program, you could transfer it in to UoP – but UoP generally has fees to transfer credit in.
The strategy would probably be to maximize inexpensive or free transfers to UoP, to whatever extent possible. That way, you could potentially skip straight to the courses you need for COSC. Ideally, those same courses that transfer to UoP would also transfer to COSC. It's definitely convoluted, though, so probably not worth the effort unless all the courses align perfectly. Maybe forget I suggested this route..
