Biden free college a reality?

[Seagull]

Can I just remind everyone to not use the word "FREE" when discussing this?!? College will not ever be free.  It is TAXPAYER funded!  WE are paying for it.  And if we're not now, we will be through higher and higher taxes as time goes on and that national debt clocks blows up on us.  Our kids, our grandkids, our great grandkids will be paying through the nose for all this "free" stuff.

There is no such thing as free!!!

In the strictest since what you say is true, but it is a somewhat disingenuous argument often used by people who are opposed to publicly funded programs. 

Let’s compare the education system in the United States to those of other countries, many of which offer “free” education. 

In 2018, the cost of educating a student pursuing higher education in the United States was, on average, $31,600. I suspect this takes into account a considerable amount of government funding designated to university research and private donations made to endowments and special programs. These are not all government dollars. That said, we spend substantially more per student then any other country IN THE WORLD.  We spent roughly twice as much as peer countries like Ireland, Spain, France, and Australia. 

Part of our educational costs are certainly tied to the reality that too many people go to college in the United States.  But, that gets us to the total cost piece, but not the per capita cost. 

We have a free market for higher education and people in the United States have been taught that a college education is basically a panacea.  We also are a people who believes deeply in the American dream. That is a really dangerous combination. Parents and students, consumers, do not understand the economics of the decision to attend a college or university. For all the gainful employment disclosures and cost-of-college requirements, there still is lack of understanding but also a lack of pragmatism. 

The reality is that most people who go to lowly ranked schools with weak alumni networks will increase their earning power a little but not dramatically and, as often as not, may not increase it enough to justify the cost of the education. This is especially true when you take out those people who attend professional schools or graduate programs, those who come from wealthy backgrounds, those who already have inroads into a successful career path due to family connections, and a whole host of other realities that are not obvious when you just look at post-graduation wages and employment statistics. Of course, there are successful people who will be successful whether they go to Harvard University, Hartford University, or the Lee Harvard Barber College. It is also impossible to control for those people. 

So, what are we left with?  We are left with vast numbers of average students who graduate with middling grades and marginally useful majors and no built-in connections. I am sure you know some of them. One of them probably made your mocha the last time you went to Starbucks. 

What, then, should we do?  The marketplace says we have would-be consumers who want a product (higher education) and you have colleges and universities that are happy to provide it. To me, by far the most obvious solution is government regulation. We have lightly regulated higher education and medicine in the United States and pay more for education and medical care than any other country in the world. We also have excellent outcomes for the wealthiest among us but substandard outcomes for many in the middle and most at the bottom. 

In my perfect world, we would move to a system more like that in many European countries. Education would be something provided exclusively through what amounts to a government cartel. All colleges and universities would be public.  I know many, perhaps most people in the United States disagree with that, but that’s what I would like to see. 

There are numerous advantages to such a system. You can easily set the number of graduates in a particular discipline. I love when conservatives complain about all the people with “worthless” women’s studies and English degrees but fight tooth-and-nail to defend the free market system that produces these graduates.  System administrators decide the country needs X number of women’s studies graduates, Y number of nurses, and Z number of math majors and that’s what you end up with. You don’t waste finite resources training people in fields that are not needed in the wider marketplace. 

This level of control would also allow for tougher entry standards, in many cases. Make community colleges “free”. If a person doesn’t get admitted to a university course or doesn’t meet the prerequisites for that engineering or nursing course that we actually need, let them spend some time improving their grades and filling in the gaps in their education.  That is not how our free market system works, of course. It is much better, in the current system, to get that student on campus at Regional State U and have them live in a dorm and take remedial classes. But then, that’s what is wanted by the consumers in the free market. 

I will share 1 other thing and I don’t know if this is true, but it’s what was told to me. My father spoke at length to a surgeon to Italy. What he told my father was that medical school was very very cheap IF you graduated; the government paid most of the cost. If you DIDN’T graduate, you had to pay for the educational resources that you basically wasted. I don’t know if that’s true, but to me that is also a fantastic idea. Not because I want to punish people who don’t finish school, but because it a) provides a HUGE incentive to graduate and b) because it likely would discourage a lot of people who are not serious about school and just want to spend a few years living the “college life”. 

So, back to the cost piece. Let’s close most small colleges. Sorry, just needs to be done. It is much more efficient to run 1 university with 30,000 students than 10 colleges with 3,000 students. We do it for high schools in counties with declining populations but, because of the free market, we can’t do it with colleges. 

Let’s make it harder to get into a university but cheaper (for the student) while you are there. It really doesn’t make much sense to admit a student but make school so darn expensive that they have to work more hours than they study each week.  It is worth noting that around 68% of young people in the US go to universities, but less than half do in most other countries post industrial countries. 

Let’s shift more of the educational burden to far cheaper community colleges. 

Let’s prioritize vocational training as an alternative or even an addition to higher education. 

Let’s expand educational opportunities for older Americans.  As so many people on this board know, the US is great if you are 18 and want to get a degree but not nearly as good if you are 38 or 48. Let’s change that. Older students tend to be more motivated and more successful. Let’s allocate more resources to people who will use those resources well. 

And finally, let’s look beyond the dollars and cents costs of “free education” IF we are willing to do it well. I suspect, if colleges were nationalized and many small ones closed, that we could produce the same number of graduates against fewer admitted students and place more of those graduates in STEM and business fields where their economic contribution (read: taxes paid) to the country would far surpass the cost of “free education”. 

Of course, for a million reasons most of this will never even be considered. But one can hope.

I agree with all of what you said, if we could implement this in the US it'd be fantastic. It is true that colleges are harder in Europe especially where they are cheaper but that is how it should be.

Also note that the culture of college life and dorms is all inherent to the US. Most colleges in Europe do not have dorms options. I could be wrong but only the most prestigious colleges do.

And lots of the programs here no matter the price, they are very broad, they do not touch the type of specializations you obtain in European colleges.

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Can I just remind everyone to not use the word "FREE" when discussing this?!? College will not ever be free.  It is TAXPAYER funded!  WE are paying for it.  And if we're not now, we will be through higher and higher taxes as time goes on and that national debt clocks blows up on us.  Our kids, our grandkids, our great grandkids will be paying through the nose for all this "free" stuff.

There is no such thing as free!!!

In the strictest since what you say is true, but it is a somewhat disingenuous argument often used by people who are opposed to publicly funded programs. 

Let’s compare the education system in the United States to those of other countries, many of which offer “free” education. 

In 2018, the cost of educating a student pursuing higher education in the United States was, on average, $31,600. I suspect this takes into account a considerable amount of government funding designated to university research and private donations made to endowments and special programs. These are not all government dollars. That said, we spend substantially more per student then any other country IN THE WORLD.  We spent roughly twice as much as peer countries like Ireland, Spain, France, and Australia. 

Part of our educational costs are certainly tied to the reality that too many people go to college in the United States.  But, that gets us to the total cost piece, but not the per capita cost. 

We have a free market for higher education and people in the United States have been taught that a college education is basically a panacea.  We also are a people who believes deeply in the American dream. That is a really dangerous combination. Parents and students, consumers, do not understand the economics of the decision to attend a college or university. For all the gainful employment disclosures and cost-of-college requirements, there still is lack of understanding but also a lack of pragmatism. 

The reality is that most people who go to lowly ranked schools with weak alumni networks will increase their earning power a little but not dramatically and, as often as not, may not increase it enough to justify the cost of the education. This is especially true when you take out those people who attend professional schools or graduate programs, those who come from wealthy backgrounds, those who already have inroads into a successful career path due to family connections, and a whole host of other realities that are not obvious when you just look at post-graduation wages and employment statistics. Of course, there are successful people who will be successful whether they go to Harvard University, Hartford University, or the Lee Harvard Barber College. It is also impossible to control for those people. 

So, what are we left with?  We are left with vast numbers of average students who graduate with middling grades and marginally useful majors and no built-in connections. I am sure you know some of them. One of them probably made your mocha the last time you went to Starbucks. 

What, then, should we do?  The marketplace says we have would-be consumers who want a product (higher education) and you have colleges and universities that are happy to provide it. To me, by far the most obvious solution is government regulation. We have lightly regulated higher education and medicine in the United States and pay more for education and medical care than any other country in the world. We also have excellent outcomes for the wealthiest among us but substandard outcomes for many in the middle and most at the bottom. 

In my perfect world, we would move to a system more like that in many European countries. Education would be something provided exclusively through what amounts to a government cartel. All colleges and universities would be public.  I know many, perhaps most people in the United States disagree with that, but that’s what I would like to see. 

There are numerous advantages to such a system. You can easily set the number of graduates in a particular discipline. I love when conservatives complain about all the people with “worthless” women’s studies and English degrees but fight tooth-and-nail to defend the free market system that produces these graduates.  System administrators decide the country needs X number of women’s studies graduates, Y number of nurses, and Z number of math majors and that’s what you end up with. You don’t waste finite resources training people in fields that are not needed in the wider marketplace. 

This level of control would also allow for tougher entry standards, in many cases. Make community colleges “free”. If a person doesn’t get admitted to a university course or doesn’t meet the prerequisites for that engineering or nursing course that we actually need, let them spend some time improving their grades and filling in the gaps in their education.  That is not how our free market system works, of course. It is much better, in the current system, to get that student on campus at Regional State U and have them live in a dorm and take remedial classes. But then, that’s what is wanted by the consumers in the free market. 

I will share 1 other thing and I don’t know if this is true, but it’s what was told to me. My father spoke at length to a surgeon to Italy. What he told my father was that medical school was very very cheap IF you graduated; the government paid most of the cost. If you DIDN’T graduate, you had to pay for the educational resources that you basically wasted. I don’t know if that’s true, but to me that is also a fantastic idea. Not because I want to punish people who don’t finish school, but because it a) provides a HUGE incentive to graduate and b) because it likely would discourage a lot of people who are not serious about school and just want to spend a few years living the “college life”. 

So, back to the cost piece. Let’s close most small colleges. Sorry, just needs to be done. It is much more efficient to run 1 university with 30,000 students than 10 colleges with 3,000 students. We do it for high schools in counties with declining populations but, because of the free market, we can’t do it with colleges. 

Let’s make it harder to get into a university but cheaper (for the student) while you are there. It really doesn’t make much sense to admit a student but make school so darn expensive that they have to work more hours than they study each week.  It is worth noting that around 68% of young people in the US go to universities, but less than half do in most other countries post industrial countries. 

Let’s shift more of the educational burden to far cheaper community colleges. 

Let’s prioritize vocational training as an alternative or even an addition to higher education. 

Let’s expand educational opportunities for older Americans.  As so many people on this board know, the US is great if you are 18 and want to get a degree but not nearly as good if you are 38 or 48. Let’s change that. Older students tend to be more motivated and more successful. Let’s allocate more resources to people who will use those resources well. 

And finally, let’s look beyond the dollars and cents costs of “free education” IF we are willing to do it well. I suspect, if colleges were nationalized and many small ones closed, that we could produce the same number of graduates against fewer admitted students and place more of those graduates in STEM and business fields where their economic contribution (read: taxes paid) to the country would far surpass the cost of “free education”. 

Of course, for a million reasons most of this will never even be considered. But one can hope.

I agree with all of what you said, if we could implement this in the US it'd be fantastic. It is true that colleges are harder in Europe especially where they are cheaper but that is how it should be.

Also note that the culture of college life and dorms is all inherent to the US. Most colleges in Europe do not have dorms options. I could be wrong but only the most prestigious colleges do.

And lots of the programs here no matter the price, they are very broad, they do not touch the type of specializations you obtain in European colleges.