Advise for a 9th grader

[rlw74]

So I'm in Ohio which has the College Credit Plus program which allows students to take college courses for free at their local highschool. They earn dual credit. Textbooks are paid for as well as enrollment fees. It's a win-win except for one little potential problem. These grades go on the permanent record. If a course is failed it shows up on the college transcript. It might even have to be made up at the high school level because you technically aren't earning high school credit either.

One school will pay for a full associates degree with them if you take a minimum of 6 credits by your senior year, so no need to rush. Option 1 is she just waits for a little bit. (Although there is a risk they could change the program).

Another option that seems less risky is for her to take straighterline courses on her own time. I even talked to our guidance counselor and he said he might accept SL credits as a testing out option. Yes, I would have to pay for the courses and there is a risk it might not count for dual credit or be accepted at a college in the future. But more colleges in my area are accepting those credits and it doesn't go on a permanent record if she fails the course.

She takes the ACT in February and if she doesn't score high enough this program won't be an option anyway. I want her to take the ACT regardless as it's good practice. However, I don't want to push her too quickly. She is in middle school this year but taking high school Math and English. Granted, she does struggle with math and science so I'm also fine with her focusing on her high school grades only.

Would you all suggest just sticking with SL? Trying college courses? Not taking any college courses now but waiting until Junior or Senior year? (Ironically enough, you never used to have access to the program until last two years of high school. Now it's opened up to as young as 7th grade!)

[Ideas]

If there was a low grade in a college course, could it be retaken a couple years down the road?

[Life Long Learning]

The great thing about CLEP and DSST exams is no one will ever know if you fail one or 10.

When you order the CLEP/DSST transcript you check the box of only passing scores to be sent to college XYZ.

[dfrecore]

I think it depends entirely on the kid. If your kid is not WAY ahead and doing college-level work, I wouldn't have them take college courses. If that means you don't get to take advantage of the program, that's ok. Pushing your kid to do more than they're ready for, just to save a few bucks, is a recipe for disaster IMHO.

I certainly don't want my 8th grader in a college classroom for English anyway, as I think there might be a chance for adult content that they aren't ready for (or at least, I'm not ready for them to hear, discuss, whatever).

Math, if your kid excels - certainly. Especially if you know going into it that they're going to excel (my 8th grader could easily take Intermediate Algebra right now and pass, but anything higher would probably not work out too well).

Science at a CC is going to be VERY time-consuming, especially if there is a lab (and you're going to want a lab for high school credit). At my local CC, General Biology is 1 1/2 hours 2 days a week or 3 hours 1 day a week, plus 3 hours a week for a lab. Will your child have the time to do this during the school day? Or after school? Neither of my kids would want to do this, they would freak out at having to spend 6 hours a week in a college class on top of their other schoolwork, not to mention the homework.

History - might be doable if they're already a history buff, but it may be a lot of work. Do they have to write a 5-page paper or is it all multiple-choice tests? Is your child up for that? Again, both of mine would freak (for different reasons).

Also, there is the pace. College courses cover in a single semester what a normal HS course covers in a year. That's a pretty fast pace.

I'm not saying kids should not do college courses at all, I'm just saying that it probably doesn't make a lot of sense for most kids, to do it in 8th grade, and probably 50% or more wouldn't be ready before 11th grade. And that's perfectly fine.

BTW - my 10th grade daughter goes to a rigorous charter school. Kids are regularly taking college-level courses, and the satellite CC campus is across the street from the high school. It's fantastic. The kids are very driven, but it's almost exclusively 11th/12th graders taking the classes, in place of what they would be taking in HS anyway. A student I know has taken courses as freshman, but her mom allows a single course a semester, and it's things that she's passionate about (Art History was her first course, and she got an A). My daughter is seriously considering taking an art class or two, because there is no art program at her school. She's looking at drawing and ceramics, things I'm not real worried about her failing (I mean, how do you fail ceramics??).

Again, it's wholly dependent on the student, and what you think they are capable of.

[Ideas]

She's looking at drawing and ceramics, things I'm not real worried about her failing (I mean, how do you fail ceramics??).

I'm entertaining myself imagining ways 

I agree with dfrecore's many good points. 

I would also advise against college-level English unless it's just a CLEP. Even then, I'm not sure. Not just because there could be mature content, but I think that level of English writing/analysis/discussion requires more life experience.

[davewill]

I think you have to consider your kid's maturity level. Some 14yo are simply not ready to deal with the assumed level of responsibility of a college classroom (some 18yo aren't either, but we have to let them try some time) even if they are intellectually capable of understanding the material.

[clep3705]

Plenty of good advice here, but something important has been overlooked. College level instructors have different expectations than high school or middle school instructors. Is your child ready for that? It's not just the subject that matters, it's also the instructor and the instructor's disposition. Have you checked ratemyprofessors.com? That's more of a rhetorical question to make a point. You need to be mindful that all instructors are not alike. I would not put a 9th grader in a college class taught by an instructor for which 25% of the class drops out, for example. Talk to students currently enrolled or otherwise do something to understand what to expect. Are the syllabuses posted online? What courses are the currently enrolled dual credit students doing well in and enjoying? Courses are much easier when they are enjoyable. There's nothing wrong with having fun at school, although not all instructors believe that education can be fun.

[cookderosa]

So I'm in Ohio which has the College Credit Plus program which allows students to take college courses for free at their local highschool. They earn dual credit. Textbooks are paid for as well as enrollment fees. It's a win-win except for one little potential problem. These grades go on the permanent record. If a course is failed it shows up on the college transcript. It might even have to be made up at the high school level because you technically aren't earning high school credit either.

One school will pay for a full associates degree with them if you take a minimum of 6 credits by your senior year, so no need to rush. Option 1 is she just waits for a little bit. (Although there is a risk they could change the program).

Another option that seems less risky is for her to take straighterline courses on her own time. I even talked to our guidance counselor and he said he might accept SL credits as a testing out option. Yes, I would have to pay for the courses and there is a risk it might not count for dual credit or be accepted at a college in the future. But more colleges in my area are accepting those credits and it doesn't go on a permanent record if she fails the course.

She takes the ACT in February and if she doesn't score high enough this program won't be an option anyway. I want her to take the ACT regardless as it's good practice. However, I don't want to push her too quickly. She is in middle school this year but taking high school Math and English. Granted, she does struggle with math and science so I'm also fine with her focusing on her high school grades only.

Would you all suggest just sticking with SL? Trying college courses? Not taking any college courses now but waiting until Junior or Senior year? (Ironically enough, you never used to have access to the program until last two years of high school. Now it's opened up to as young as 7th grade!)

I know you're not homeschooling, but if you'd like to connect with other Ohio parents using College Plus, I have a FB support group called Homeschooling for College Credit in Ohio. It has just under 600 very active members - for sure you'd get really great advice there. You can search for it on FB or message me for the link.

Dual enrollment and SL are very different types of education. Dual enrollment will have a teacher, a schedule, and graded work. SL will be a computer program that she can navigate herself at her own pace. Her work will be only exams, which are multiple choice and graded by the software. Both generally require a final exam, and there are more specific differences based on the specific classes she'd be taking, but that's the main difference in structure.
As for grades, SL wouldn't leave a paper trail. As you said, dual enrollment certainly will, so that is a very real concern. I would piggy back onto your fear by adding that if she isn't quite ready for college work yet, then I'm of the opinion to wait. (as a personal point, my oldest son started dual enrollment in 9th grade and the overall process went poorly - he graduate high school with 27 credits and hated college. His younger brothers didn't start until 11th grade, and despite not being as *bright* academically, are all significantly more successful- both graduating high school with over 70 college credits)
Transfer- your daughter's dual enrollment courses will transfer, no question, her SL courses may not. I will tell you my 2 sons mentioned above are both planning to enroll at Franklin University (Ohio) and expect 20 SL courses to transfer (we picked them with that intent), but that is an exception, and I would be shocked to learn that a public high school would accept any of the SL courses for high school credit.

P.S. 6 credits before senior year is only 2 classes - there really is no rush.

[originalamyj]

Great advice here. My dd started dual enrollment last year as an 11th grader. We have regular dual enrollment here, and we also have a program that starts in 9th grade and finishes 12th with an Associates degree. It's fantastic, BUT those are motivated kiddos.

A few things I didn't realize going into this... The college considers your child to be an adult capable of handling their own affairs. There is no more mommy intervention. In fact the couple of initial meetings with her advisor that she wanted me to attend with her the advisor looked at my dd and asked her point blank if it was ok for her to discuss anything with me. All communication with the school is through the student, not the parent. They are very nice about it, but still. Also, as mentioned, the content of some courses and the worldview of the professors can definitely be more adult than your student may be ready for. I don't think I would have wanted my dd at 14 in the psych class she took. Lastly, keep in mind that the other students on campus are by and large adults. Perhaps she's ready to be engaging with other adults on campus, perhaps not.

Personally, unless the student is VERY motivated and very mature, I would wait until at least 10th or 11th grade.

[cookderosa]

Something else to throw into the mix, she'll probably be able to do dual enrollment via distance learning too, so this might avoid not only BEING on campus, but having to GO there. (that was an issue for us when my not-yet-driving-teen had to be on campus 3x per week in the middle of my day)