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Cohort mates rants and raves - How's it going?
#1
I am in a DPA program. We started with 16, but we are now down to four; this is only the second semester. I realize "life" happens to everyone, and I know the attrition rate was high for doctoral programs, but this really has me questioning whether I can make it until the end. Almost universally, residential doctoral programs have reported attrition rates of up to 50% and nearly 50-70% for online doctoral programs. I've never quit anything in my life. But, my cohort mates are so quiet and I feel like I'm doing this program all by myself. Even with the online discussion boards, they frequently do not respond until the last possible moment,  and I find myself playing catch up in trying to complete the requisite follow-up posts before the deadline. 

No real meaningful content here, just venting, I guess. 

I've been on DF for nearly 10 years, and you all have always been incredibly supportive. I wonder how you all are fairing with your cohorts?
Don't miss out on something great just because it might also be difficult.

Road traveled: AA (2013) > BS (2014) > MS (2016) > Doctorate (2024)

If God hadn't been there for me, I never would have made it. Psalm 94:16-19
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#2
I'm not in a doctorate program, but struggling to feel connected to the cohort is something I have dealt with. Maybe you can start putting together a group on Facebook/LinkedIn for people to connect socially or consider having an online video chat or game night once a month. It might be easier to engage with people when they know each other socially rather than everything being all about school. It's likely that if you're feeling this way others are too.
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#3
(07-23-2022, 07:51 PM)soliloquy Wrote: But, my cohort mates are so quiet and I feel like I'm doing this program all by myself. Even with the online discussion boards, they frequently do not respond until the last possible moment,  and I find myself playing catch up in trying to complete the requisite follow-up posts before the deadline. 

I understand many people quit their PhD programs not because they are "quitters" but rather that the PhD experience is not at all what they imagined it to be. I guess it's like a divorce, sometimes it just isn't a good fit no matter how hard you try. If you feel that your DPA experience is exactly what you envisioned, then that's perfect. However, if the experience is far from what you expected, then quitting is actually an admirable thing as you can focus on what you really want to pursue and not waste any more of your time.
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#4
@soliloquy, do you have an exit strategy or backup plan in case you feel like jumping ship on this degree program? I would see if there is an option to "go through" the program to finish. If that isn't possible due to scenarios or situations with "life or stuff happens", you should finish the courses you're currently working on and see if there are programs you can transfer your courses into. Some doctoral programs are geared for ABD students, that's if you go that far into the program...
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#5
While I'm sure this is no consolation, your experience with your classmates isn't any different than what goes on at the undergrad level. I teach online for my state university system. When I was asked by administration why I didn't engage students in discussion boards earlier than I do, I replied that it was hard to do so when students only post within 2 hours of the midnight deadline each week. With any deadline there's a flurry of submissions at the deadline threshold because students don't prioritize differently. That's the nature of online higher education. 

You didn't mention where your DPA program was but I know as of a few years ago there were only 6 DPA programs nationwide. I was in one myself in 2016-2017 which was online but required residency weekends twice a year. We had a fair amount of attrition during that time. I'll echo what the others have said; if you're having serious doubts, do some examining of priorities and potential outcomes & weigh that against what the next few years will cost you, both money and time-wise. My program consumed my life outside my full-time job and took a major toll on my health. At the time, I thought it was a short-term sacrifice for a bigger reward a few years down the road. 

Then I began looking around at the job market for DPA graduates, as I was looking to remain in higher education. At most, it would have meant a 15% pay increase if I won the lottery & were hired for a full-time faculty position. In my search I found 2 professors in my state university system that were making the same or less as I already was in my management position at another university, supervising a department of staff and student workers. While my program was covered by employee tuition assistance there were still substantial out-of-pocket costs and given the potential job market and lack of returns financially, I decided to leave my program. In my case, the investment wasn't worth the potential return. 

So carefully weigh what you want your outcomes to be and the likelihood of those occurring. If you've got a clear path to a job you know you'll love, that's great. If you're fine with graduating and possibly never using your doctorate in a full-time job or just for adjuncting on the side, that's fine as well. But know what outcomes will make you satisfied and find out if the expectation of them being fulfilled is realistic. I left my program knowing it was the right thing for me but I still wrestled with the feeling of failure for years, all the while knowing that completion of the program wouldn't have netted me a desirable outcome. (I'm not a quitter, either.) I kept my old job and was later offered an online adjunct position; between the 2 I'm making a little more than I would have with the DPA in a full-time faculty slot. It's not the outcome I wanted but it's the best outcome I could hope for. If you're having doubts this early in the game, I'd suggest you weigh all the factors involved in your return on investment vis a vis your program. You can make up lost money but you'll never recover the time you spend.
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#6
The discussions are something I tend to dread in many online programs because most students wait until the last day or last few hours to submit a post. And then you're left scrambling to get your responses in. Sometimes it's really hard to find a post that is easy to respond to. I'm always surprised at how many people follow the instructions and post exactly what the professor says not to post. Or the post just lacks anything to really respond to. Some don't even make the word count.

I have a professor now who requires discussion posts but no responses. We have most of the session to post our discussions until she closes them. I'm always amazed at how few people post them. They're worth between 15% and 25% of our final grade depending on the course. You need a B to stay in grad school so if you're losing 25 points out of 100 right off the bat then I don't see how you can pass or stay in the program. She's always amazed at how few students post them knowing how much they're worth and they're so much easier than the papers we write for her. I find her classes really easy, but time consuming because of the amount of reading and writing. I find her to be extremely fair with grading.

I would say to look at yourself. Don't count on your cohort to get you through. You can only control what you do. You are responsible for your own work. I know it's difficult when you have to rely on others. Try not to let that get you down. Focus on what you can control.
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#7
(07-24-2022, 08:12 PM)bjcheung77 Wrote: @soliloquy, do you have an exit strategy or backup plan in case you feel like jumping ship on this degree program?  I would see if there is an option to "go through" the program to finish.  If that isn't possible due to scenarios or situations with "life or stuff happens", you should finish the courses you're currently working on and see if there are programs you can transfer your courses into.  Some doctoral programs are geared for ABD students, that's if you go that far into the program...

I'm just venting. It's a great program but rigorous because of 8-week sessions and a heavy workload. I guess some people realize it's not for them or change for other reasons. Most of my cohort mates have told me they just had things come up, moves, illness, sick loved ones, death, etc. But, I'll make it work one way or another. I like the institution itself.

(07-26-2022, 07:50 AM)tb81 Wrote: While I'm sure this is no consolation, your experience with your classmates isn't any different than what goes on at the undergrad level. I teach online for my state university system. When I was asked by administration why I didn't engage students in discussion boards earlier than I do, I replied that it was hard to do so when students only post within 2 hours of the midnight deadline each week. With any deadline there's a flurry of submissions at the deadline threshold because students don't prioritize differently. That's the nature of online higher education. 

You didn't mention where your DPA program was but I know as of a few years ago there were only 6 DPA programs nationwide. I was in one myself in 2016-2017 which was online but required residency weekends twice a year. We had a fair amount of attrition during that time. I'll echo what the others have said; if you're having serious doubts, do some examining of priorities and potential outcomes & weigh that against what the next few years will cost you, both money and time-wise. My program consumed my life outside my full-time job and took a major toll on my health. At the time, I thought it was a short-term sacrifice for a bigger reward a few years down the road. 

Then I began looking around at the job market for DPA graduates, as I was looking to remain in higher education. At most, it would have meant a 15% pay increase if I won the lottery & were hired for a full-time faculty position. In my search I found 2 professors in my state university system that were making the same or less as I already was in my management position at another university, supervising a department of staff and student workers. While my program was covered by employee tuition assistance there were still substantial out-of-pocket costs and given the potential job market and lack of returns financially, I decided to leave my program. In my case, the investment wasn't worth the potential return. 

So carefully weigh what you want your outcomes to be and the likelihood of those occurring. If you've got a clear path to a job you know you'll love, that's great. If you're fine with graduating and possibly never using your doctorate in a full-time job or just for adjuncting on the side, that's fine as well. But know what outcomes will make you satisfied and find out if the expectation of them being fulfilled is realistic. I left my program knowing it was the right thing for me but I still wrestled with the feeling of failure for years, all the while knowing that completion of the program wouldn't have netted me a desirable outcome. (I'm not a quitter, either.) I kept my old job and was later offered an online adjunct position; between the 2 I'm making a little more than I would have with the DPA in a full-time faculty slot. It's not the outcome I wanted but it's the best outcome I could hope for. If you're having doubts this early in the game, I'd suggest you weigh all the factors involved in your return on investment vis a vis your program. You can make up lost money but you'll never recover the time you spend.

While I'm sure this is no consolation, your experience with your classmates isn't any different than what goes on at the undergrad level. I teach online for my state university system. When I was asked by administration why I didn't engage students in discussion boards earlier than I do, I replied that it was hard to do so when students only post within 2 hours of the midnight deadline each week. With any deadline there's a flurry of submissions at the deadline threshold because students don't prioritize differently. That's the nature of online higher education. 

That advice is well-taken. Thank you. Most of this is online, but there is an in-person component as well. 

You didn't mention where your DPA program was but I know as of a few years ago there were only 6 DPA programs nationwide. I was in one myself in 2016-2017 which was online but required residency weekends twice a year. We had a fair amount of attrition during that time. I'll echo what the others have said; if you're having serious doubts, do some examining of priorities and potential outcomes & weigh that against what the next few years will cost you, both money and time-wise. My program consumed my life outside my full-time job and took a major toll on my health. At the time, I thought it was a short-term sacrifice for a bigger reward a few years down the road. 

There were actually a large number of DPA programs a few years ago. I actually listed out every known DPA  program 5 years ago and updated it when I finally pulled the trigger. You can see my sheet here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing.

I will use my doctorate in the area I am working in, and it will be instrumental in affecting public policy on some advocacy projects I'm working on. Thank you!
Don't miss out on something great just because it might also be difficult.

Road traveled: AA (2013) > BS (2014) > MS (2016) > Doctorate (2024)

If God hadn't been there for me, I never would have made it. Psalm 94:16-19
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#8
The single best predictor of success is determination.  This is good news because while there are many things in life we can not control, our attitude is not one of them.  Hang in there.
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#9
(07-28-2022, 12:38 PM)Alpha Wrote: The single best predictor of success is determination.  This is good news because while there are many things in life we can not control, our attitude is not one of them.  Hang in there.

That's what I think too, determination and motivation to complete the degree. Sometimes there are cohorts you want to work with as a team and someone "isn't picking up their part", that's where it really does hurt. OR if you're always waiting for someone to complete their discussions before you can post something as a response... Basically, it's a waiting game and patience is really a virtue.
In Progress: Walden MBA | TESU BA Biology & Computer Science
Graduate Certificate: Global Management & Entrepreneurship, ASU (Freebie)

Completed: TESU ASNSM Biology, BSBA (ACBSP Accredited 2017)
Universidad Isabel I: ENEB MBA, Big Data & BI, Digital Marketing & E-Commerce
Certs: 6Sigma/Lean/Scrum, ITIL | Cisco/CompTIA/MTA | Coursera/Edx/Udacity

The Basic Approach | Plans | DegreeForum Community Supported Wiki
~Note~ Read/Review forum posts & Wiki Links to Sample Degree Plans
Degree Planning Advice | New To DegreeForum? How This Area Works

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#10
My cohort in my doctoral program is disconnected. Most are every man for himself. However, a small group of us gathered together on a GroupMe, learned about each other's lives, added each other to social media, and we talk all day, with each other, update each other, etc. We've become great friends. Our university didn't facilitate this. We facilitated it ourselves. We had a number of our people wanting to drop out, and a number did from the overall program. But, we're helping our cohort out, and we're all making each other stronger, sharing tips, feedback, and more. Like one of us found a detailed youtube section for several case studies that breaks it into pieces and it's been immensely helpful to the rest of the group and gave us an edge.
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