#ExpensiveCities - Worker Migration

[burbuja0512]

Hi all,

The hashtag #expensive cities was on my LinkedIn today, for the reason that there are so many workers leaving larger and more expensive cities.   This discussion was inspired by many different articles, including one talking about Silicon Valley being SO expensive that workers are literally commuting 10 hours!   https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/04/bend-ore...towns.html 

Since I have recently moved from Chicago to rural South Dakota, I find it particularly interesting.    I see so many job postings in San Francisco and New York that tout the employer's foosball in the breakroom and free lunch on Friday... or other silly "benefit."  However, that is laughable considering the need to live in an extremely expensive city in order to take the job.    Several years ago, I was recruited for a San Fran job and the salary was WONDERFUL.  More than I expected, but when I did the math, I realized that even back then, it was a terrible deal... and things have gotten worse.

My personal opinion is that forcing employees to work in the same physical office is really outdated.   It's interesting that I see so many Millennial companies that are completely opposed to remote work, and the Gen Xers seem more in favor.  Not sure why that is... I always hate generational assumptions, but I've seen a lot of this lately so wanted to bring it up.

But overall, forcing top talent into ridiculously overpriced places with lengthy commutes isn't sustainable.   Remote work is really where it's at.   I believe that companies need to learn how to restructure for many types of roles otherwise, they will lose the opportunity to hire the best workers.   Employees can always be flown into headquarters as needed and the budget to do this is NOT large in comparison to the food/alcohol budget at those fun companies that give you free meals.


What do you think?   What would remote work look like in your position - is if possible?    Have you ever worked remotely?  What would have to change? Would you move to a cheaper location if you knew you could still get a job remotely?

[kalishakti]

*listening to this thread*

If anyone saw my prior posts, I am trying hard to find high paying remote work so I can get my family out of a high crime, natural disaster prone, high cost of living area. I work remotely now (partially for family reasons and partially because I try to avoid even going out of the house in this area). I'm grateful for the job but I need to find something higher-paying.

Seems like programming/development, cybersecurity, IT project management, and certain data analytics positions are the best bets for high earning remote roles.

[Ideas]

Several years ago, I was recruited for a San Fran job and the salary was WONDERFUL.  More than I expected, but when I did the math, I realized that even back then, it was a terrible deal... and things have gotten worse.

I think it depends on how much someone likes the city, and if the person has time. If they are building their career and working/studying all the time, it's not worth living in the city, because they aren't enjoying what it has to offer. But if they have good work-life balance, it can be worth it, especially if the commute is not daily.

I agree that companies are smart to hire remotely. Some of the better tech companies understand that a remote employee who is self-motivated is one of the best quality employees, and to attract the best, they have to give the flexibility. They also save money like you said. 

However, some companies are saving money by outsourcing instead, and getting contract workers so they don't have to pay any benefits. In my view, that's the dark side of remote work.

I work remotely, but it's freelance, not as an employee, mostly doing work that I don't like. I'm looking to get another degree fast (or two) and more work experience, so I can do work I like. I would live in a higher cost area, even though my net pay won't be any higher.

[burbuja0512]

@Kalishakti - what field are you in.. if you care to share? I'm in B2B sales and there are many remote positions, but they're generally not at the entry level. So I can do now what I couldn't have done a few years ago. But I find that the best way to find a remote position is to do a job board search, let's say Indeed.com. Search the job that you want, but instead of listing a city, just leave it blank. You'll pull up everything in the United States. It is ridiculously time-consuming, but Indeed is the one I have personally found that lets you search easiest. (For my field at least)

...Anyhow, I just dig through the jobs I like and then review them for clues as to whether they'd be open to a remote position. Some will very clearly list that it is an office-based position. I don't apply for those. Others will say that the position manages people on-site. Another clue that it's not a remote position. BUT for jobs that seem like they could be done from anywhere, I will apply. This works, but with a lot of rejection. I started applying for jobs in February and right now I have four very strong potential leads. Only one of my potential jobs actually said "remote," but all of them are aware that I require a remote position.

If you try this approach, you have to be prepared to negotiate. For example, I can take 10% lower pay to fund extra trips back to headquarters. I live in rural South Dakota. TBH, I could take more than a 10% paycut and still be WAY better off and luckily I haven't had to offer this yet. I'm still going through the process, but considering that I was VERY specific about the type of job I wanted, and that it HAD to be remote, I'm extremely happy that I've had this much progress since February. I anticipate having this wrapped up by June. Ha ha .... well, I hope so, because the way I look for remote jobs is a serious pain in the butt.

@Ideas.... yes I know what you mean about the dark side of remote work. But the outsourcing or offshoring can happen with or without this. All it takes is some executive who is willing to compromise on quality to make himself look like a hero, and there are layoffs. I think your idea to just make yourself stand apart more and more is the way to go. Yes, one company can lay you off, but with all of what you're adding, you'll find something new quicker.

[Ideas]

I started applying for jobs in February and right now I have four very strong potential leads.  Only one of my potential jobs actually said "remote," but all of them are aware that I require a remote position.

Congrats!

I agree, when I looked, it seemed like many remote jobs are only available to people in mid-career. Not entry-level. For me personally, this is one of the things that has been a hurdle, since I can't really get the entry-level in-person experience due to health, but I'm trying to work around it.

[burbuja0512]

I started applying for jobs in February and right now I have four very strong potential leads.  Only one of my potential jobs actually said "remote," but all of them are aware that I require a remote position.

Congrats!

I agree, when I looked, it seemed like many remote jobs are only available to people in mid-career. Not entry-level. For me personally, this is one of the things that has been a hurdle, since I can't really get the entry-level in-person experience due to health, but I'm trying to work around it.

Any way that you can make yourself look a little bit more mid-level?  Sometimes prior jobs that are unrelated actually do have many related tasks.   It can be possible to thread together unrelated items on a resume and have them make sense... and make you look more experienced.

Just a thought...  send me a pm if you ever need me to look at your resume.    (Ha ha ha ha.... can you tell that I have wrapped up my consulting work and now just waiting for the new job thing to work out?   I am a little bit bored!)


Regarding the health thing... it's another REALLY good reason why today's employers need to get with the picture and encourage remote work.    Employers are always complaining about a lack of talent, but the reality is that if they modified their hiring practices, and embraced remote workers, some amazing talent would pop up that perhaps couldn't make it into an office due to health or other personal issues.

[Ideas]

Any way that you can make yourself look a little bit more mid-level?

Regarding the health thing... it's another REALLY good reason why today's employers need to get with the picture and encourage remote work.    Employers are always complaining about a lack of talent, but the reality is that if they modified their hiring practices, and embraced remote workers, some amazing talent would pop up that perhaps couldn't make it into an office due to health or other personal issues.

Yes, I think I have a good plan, that is a vague outline of a plan. I'm working on figuring out some more specifics.

Thank you for offering, I will try to think of some questions for you, or what to send 

Yeah! I know some other people with health issues who are very hard workers. I think that being ill can lead to some very positive traits and habits.

[dfrecore]

My husband has worked remotely for 15 years now, and wouldn't take a job where he had to show up every day in an office if they doubled his pay! He travels a LOT for business, so they don't really care where he lives - they're going to be paying for that travel no matter what.

BTW - we live in an expensive city (San Diego) but bought when the housing market was down. And, we plan on leaving after our youngest graduates from HS in 4 years, because with the way things are going here in CA, the state will be imploding in the next 10-20 years from unfunded pension liabilities among other things. Why pay the higher taxes when they come when we don't have to?

[bluebooger]

I wish I could work remotely

but having access to 10s of 1000s of patient medical records means on site work only

[icampy]

I live in a town of 1500. The government is picky about launching rockets over cities.

I would not live in one of those massive cities (or the state of california) even at a 50% raise.