Lab only options for Anatomy & Physiology? Did Straighterline but didnt need lab then

[Jonathan Whatley]

That wouldn't be completely true either. As far as the program in question goes - they require prereqs to be done before you start the program. So if a RN-BSN program grants credits based on passing the NCLEX you won't lose anything.

This rests on the assumption that the second nursing school will grant block credit for passing the NCLEX-RN. It seems that some schools may, but others will go on a course-by-course basis. If I had to make an educated guess my guess would be that block credit is the exception, individual course transfer the general rule.

"Won't lose anything" seems to rest on the further assumption that that block credit grant would be large enough. "Michigan State University," for example, "grants 30 credits for successfully passing your NCLEX-RN exam." RN to BSN: FAQs (Michigan State University). After doing a 60 sh unaccredited ADN and not being able to transfer individual courses, receiving only 30 sh in transfer could certainly count as a loss. Let alone after a 120 sh unaccredited BSN.

[Gaz]

I am 100% sure that you can get an accredited RN-BSN degree by starting with an unaccredited RN degree. My question is this - does that pathway keep someone from opportunities? If so, what are they? Does it pose potential vast limitations or maybe just a few?

I prefer to prob the system and norms until I'm happy with the results.

The word accreditation can be confusing. In regards to nursing there are several layers of accreditation to consider.

All legal nursing schools are approved by the Board of Nursing. This allows the graduate to sit for the NCLEX and obtain an RN license.

The actual nursing curriculum should be accredited by the NLNAC or CCNE. This is the what Jonathan was speaking of in regard to the importance of the "professional-entry-level degree." This accreditation represents a program standard. This is the standard that graduate schools expect. If you want to be a nurse practitioner then the degree where you completed your clinicals and were allowed to sit for the NLCLEX needs to meet this standard. Entry level could be ASN, BSN, and in some instances MSN.

Next is, regional accreditation. You're already familiar with this one. It has nothing to do with the nursing program itself, the quality, or standard. Without it nothing transfers. This is why an unaccredited nursing degree does not transfer to an accredited RN-BSN program. If USF requires A&P I and II, Microbiology, Psychology, Statistics, Nutrition, Humanities and you took them at an unaccredited school, you need to take them again. Like Jennifer said, SL stands a better chance of being accepted. The schools that do grant credit for passing the NLCEX only waive the lower level core nursing courses.

Of course, there are always exceptions. I've heard of people from Galen College transferring to UOP. That is not a joke.

[cookderosa]

My final thoughts, this issue is too tricky. It's cloudy, muddy, and requires an advanced understanding of the entire process. There are probably only 10 people on this board that even understand the arguments being discussed in this thread. ANY community college, in my opinion, trumps this school by a magnitude of 100.

Remove the RN credential from this discussion, and you have nothing. No credit, no transfer, no legit degree. Nothing. How much should that cost? How much time, training, and EXPLAINING will this degree require for your ENTIRE career? Yes, you'll be an RN, but that's all.

[namwen]

My final thoughts, this issue is too tricky. It's cloudy, muddy, and requires an advanced understanding of the entire process. There are probably only 10 people on this board that even understand the arguments being discussed in this thread. ANY community college, in my opinion, trumps this school by a magnitude of 100.

Remove the RN credential from this discussion, and you have nothing. No credit, no transfer, no legit degree. Nothing. How much should that cost? How much time, training, and EXPLAINING will this degree require for your ENTIRE career? Yes, you'll be an RN, but that's all.

I totally disagree. If your goal is to be an RN and this accomplishes that goal then that can be positive. I honestly don't think there is much to explain at all in many cases. A job description calls for you to a registered nurse, this accomplishes the goal of being a registered nurse.

Here are some reasons/positives of the program:

1. Cost - they are offering scholarships that make the program affordable - about 11k.
2. Open enrollment - many people cannot get into another school or do not want to take entrance exams. Pass the TEAS with a 60 and you're in. They don't have awaiting list.
3. Financing - they offer payment plans on a signature that has a beginning payment date 6 months after you start.
4. Missions - the program is focused on helping the homeless...namely homeless pregnant women.
5. One year program - this is a HUGE plus, IMO. I'd much much rather do a one year intense program than try to slug through a 2 year program.

Are there possible limitations? Of course there are.

Saying that if you take away the RN part of it you have nothing is kind of a real duh statement. Take away the credential of any apprenticeship program and you basically don't have much other than experience and training.

For example: my oldest son is on a pathway to become a certified pipeline welder. Right now he is in the field as an apprentice. As soon as he can buy the equipment and pass the test he can be making 6 figures as a certified pipe welder. The other pathway is he could go to a CC, get an associates degree and then get certified.

Now, in both cases if he loses his certification he is screwed. Yes, he has credits to fall back on I suppose but he is no longer a welder. Either way the end means is no longer an options. Not only that but the apprenticeship path allows him to get in the field, make a living (60k+) and establish himself with a company.

The same with this program. If you lose your registered nurse status with an accredited degree or an unaccredited degree you still are not a nurse. On leaves you with credits to apply towards something and the other doesn't. That obviously is a drawback to the program.

One more thing, if you are in a 2 year program and I am in a 1 year program I am going to be 50k ahead of you, in general. While you are in school I am making money and advancing.

[namwen]

My final thoughts, this issue is too tricky. It's cloudy, muddy, and requires an advanced understanding of the entire process. There are probably only 10 people on this board that even understand the arguments being discussed in this thread. ANY community college, in my opinion, trumps this school by a magnitude of 100.

Remove the RN credential from this discussion, and you have nothing. No credit, no transfer, no legit degree. Nothing. How much should that cost? How much time, training, and EXPLAINING will this degree require for your ENTIRE career? Yes, you'll be an RN, but that's all.

I totally disagree. If your goal is to be an RN and this accomplishes that goal then that can be positive. I honestly don't think there is much to explain at all in many cases. A job description calls for you to a registered nurse, this accomplishes the goal of being a registered nurse.

Here are some reasons/positives of the program:

1. Cost - they are offering scholarships that make the program affordable - about 11k.
2. Open enrollment - many people cannot get into another school or do not want to take entrance exams. Pass the TEAS with a 60 and you're in. They don't have awaiting list.
3. Financing - they offer payment plans on a signature that has a beginning payment date 6 months after you start.
4. Missions - the program is focused on helping the homeless...namely homeless pregnant women.
5. One year program - this is a HUGE plus, IMO. I'd much much rather do a one year intense program than try to slug through a 2 year program.

Are there possible limitations? Of course there are.

Saying that if you take away the RN part of it you have nothing is kind of a real duh statement. Take away the credential of any apprenticeship program and you basically don't have much other than experience and training.

For example: my oldest son is on a pathway to become a certified pipeline welder. Right now he is in the field as an apprentice. As soon as he can buy the equipment and pass the test he can be making 6 figures as a certified pipe welder. The other pathway is he could go to a CC, get an associates degree and then get certified.

Now, in both cases if he loses his certification he is screwed. Yes, he has credits to fall back on I suppose but he is no longer a welder. Either way the end means is no longer an options. Not only that but the apprenticeship path allows him to get in the field, make a living (60k+) and establish himself with a company.

The same with this program. If you lose your registered nurse status with an accredited degree or an unaccredited degree you still are not a nurse. On leaves you with credits to apply towards something and the other doesn't. That obviously is a drawback to the program.

One more thing, if you are in a 2 year program and I am in a 1 year program I am going to be 50k ahead of you, in general. While you are in school I am making money and advancing.

[namwen]

My final thoughts, this issue is too tricky. It's cloudy, muddy, and requires an advanced understanding of the entire process. There are probably only 10 people on this board that even understand the arguments being discussed in this thread. ANY community college, in my opinion, trumps this school by a magnitude of 100.

Remove the RN credential from this discussion, and you have nothing. No credit, no transfer, no legit degree. Nothing. How much should that cost? How much time, training, and EXPLAINING will this degree require for your ENTIRE career? Yes, you'll be an RN, but that's all.

I totally disagree. If your goal is to be an RN and this accomplishes that goal then that can be positive. I honestly don't think there is much to explain at all in many cases. A job description calls for you to a registered nurse, this accomplishes the goal of being a registered nurse.

Here are some reasons/positives of the program:

1. Cost - they are offering scholarships that make the program affordable - about 11k.
2. Open enrollment - many people cannot get into another school or do not want to take entrance exams. Pass the TEAS with a 60 and you're in. They don't have awaiting list.
3. Financing - they offer payment plans on a signature that has a beginning payment date 6 months after you start.
4. Missions - the program is focused on helping the homeless...namely homeless pregnant women.
5. One year program - this is a HUGE plus, IMO. I'd much much rather do a one year intense program than try to slug through a 2 year program.

Are there possible limitations? Of course there are.

Saying that if you take away the RN part of it you have nothing is kind of a real duh statement. Take away the credential of any apprenticeship program and you basically don't have much other than experience and training.

For example: my oldest son is on a pathway to become a certified pipeline welder. Right now he is in the field as an apprentice. As soon as he can buy the equipment and pass the test he can be making 6 figures as a certified pipe welder. The other pathway is he could go to a CC, get an associates degree and then get certified.

Now, in both cases if he loses his certification he is screwed. Yes, he has credits to fall back on I suppose but he is no longer a welder. Either way the end means is no longer an options. Not only that but the apprenticeship path allows him to get in the field, make a living (60k+) and establish himself with a company.

The same with this program. If you lose your registered nurse status with an accredited degree or an unaccredited degree you still are not a nurse. On leaves you with credits to apply towards something and the other doesn't. That obviously is a drawback to the program.

One more thing, if you are in a 2 year program and I am in a 1 year program I am going to be 50k ahead of you, in general. While you are in school I am making money and advancing.

[cookderosa]

I totally disagree. If your goal is to be an RN and this accomplishes that goal then that can be positive. I honestly don't think there is much to explain at all in many cases. A job description calls for you to a registered nurse, this accomplishes the goal of being a registered nurse.

Here are some reasons/positives of the program:

1. Cost - they are offering scholarships that make the program affordable - about 11k.
2. Open enrollment - many people cannot get into another school or do not want to take entrance exams. Pass the TEAS with a 60 and you're in. They don't have awaiting list.
3. Financing - they offer payment plans on a signature that has a beginning payment date 6 months after you start.
4. Missions - the program is focused on helping the homeless...namely homeless pregnant women.
5. One year program - this is a HUGE plus, IMO. I'd much much rather do a one year intense program than try to slug through a 2 year program.

Are there possible limitations? Of course there are.

Saying that if you take away the RN part of it you have nothing is kind of a real duh statement. Take away the credential of any apprenticeship program and you basically don't have much other than experience and training.

For example: my oldest son is on a pathway to become a certified pipeline welder. Right now he is in the field as an apprentice. As soon as he can buy the equipment and pass the test he can be making 6 figures as a certified pipe welder. The other pathway is he could go to a CC, get an associates degree and then get certified.

Now, in both cases if he loses his certification he is screwed. Yes, he has credits to fall back on I suppose but he is no longer a welder. Either way the end means is no longer an options. Not only that but the apprenticeship path allows him to get in the field, make a living (60k+) and establish himself with a company.

The same with this program. If you lose your registered nurse status with an accredited degree or an unaccredited degree you still are not a nurse. On leaves you with credits to apply towards something and the other doesn't. That obviously is a drawback to the program.

One more thing, if you are in a 2 year program and I am in a 1 year program I am going to be 50k ahead of you, in general. While you are in school I am making money and advancing.

BECAUSE, having an RN is no longer enough. Competition for new hires if fierce, and you can bet your stethoscope that BSN is the new ADN. EVEN IF it was enough today, there's no going back. Nursing standards are going up, not down, and additional education is increasing. I'm sure you've read about the huge push for advanced nurse practitioners to be doctorate-prepared in the next decade. There are others here more qualified to talk about the dynamics of the field than I (Marianne, care to comment?) but relating to utility of the degree, I'll address your concerns, not to fight, but because I believe there are some issues in your points that deserve a closer look.

"1. Cost - they are offering scholarships that make the program affordable - about 11k. "
Accredited degrees can be obtained for the same price or less, all include the RN credential, so this is not a positive.

"2. Open enrollment - many people cannot get into another school or do not want to take entrance exams. Pass the TEAS with a 60 and you're in. They don't have awaiting list. "
Open enrollment is a positive, however, not every school has a wait list. I applied to multiple nursing programs without wait lists. You just have to look.

"3. Financing - they offer payment plans on a signature that has a beginning payment date 6 months after you start."
I don't consider debt a benefit in any circumstance. In house financing? It feels too slimy for me. Like they have a pawn shop and WE BUY GOLD out back. Have a lender, have a school. They should be separate so they are not bias. There are monstrous ethical issues in combining the two.

"4. Missions - the program is focused on helping the homeless...namely homeless pregnant women."
Admirable, but all of us have the option of volunteer service and mission attendance. I've got 2 years under my belt with the Good Samaritan Clinic in Moline, IL. She's welcome to join in! We need nurses! I can also hook her up with two excellent midwifery mission groups.

"5. One year program - this is a HUGE plus, IMO. I'd much much rather do a one year intense program than try to slug through a 2 year program."
True. No argument there. And, you're right about opportunity income, if you're working a year earlier than me, you're earning a year longer than me. The assumption, is that you can get a job.

[rebel100]

My hospital is seeking a "nursing excellence" status, under this requirement something like 60 % of all nurses mist hold a BSN, and managers must have an MSN. Where I live a nursing diploma RN would be lucky to find employment in a nursing home. When you consider all the accredited avenues and their low relative cost this becomes a no brainer.

I'm not saying a diplomaed rn credential is useless, but it sure is limiting.

[IrishJohn]

The assumption, is that you can get a job.

Except nowadays it's not just can you get the job, it's can you keep it? Can you get that promotion at the same employer or with another? You may be $50K richer (minus Uncle Sam's huge cut of course), but will that unaccredited degree carry you very far and for as long as an accredited one? In some fields, like IT perhaps, it may not make a difference but in many jobs it still does so I personally would never go to an unaccredited school. Don't forget, it's not just meeting the qualifications of the job that counts but also getting past HR and the hiring manager of the employers you are interested in. Many of them may have "old fashioned" views on school accreditation which could mean that unaccredited degree is worthless in their eyes.

[namwen]

That is true, standards are going up. You almost have to know go in knowing that having a BSN will be the new standard soon.

Here's the deal for me: find a way for your goals and education to work out for you. Consider ALL of the options. Don't be afraid because someone doesn't see your pathway as acceptable for them.

I heard all of the arguements at DI about getting an NA accredited degree and all of the limitations I would experience. I was told I would never get into a good grad program, that it would limit my employment and that I was basically foolish for doing getting a NA degree. Most of this was said to others but I am good at taking note of what is Sadi to others.

So I went ahead and did my NA degree. I even took the opportunity to . . . *GASP* . . . use their in house/slimy financing. At least I did until the fortune 7 company that hired me paid my loan off. You know, the one that wasn't supposed to hire me in the first place. Next up I enrolled into the AACSB accredited master degree program of my dreams. You know, the one that wasn't supposed to admit me. After that I plan to teach my profession to others with my lower tiered undergraduate degree financed in a slimy way in a college that I am supposed to have ZERO chance of teaching at. I will do this while I am prospering at my job that I am not supposed to have.

What is the point? Take all of the information laid out before you then do your own research. Take good advice. Listen to people like Jennifer and people on this board. After all of that make your own decisions and follow what is best for your situation. You will ALWAYS find naysayers along the way. I say ignore them and see opportunities before you rather than problems.

But be sure that you count the cost of all of your decisions before you make them.