MSCS/MSDS on performance based admissions programs

[mcmctalk]

Mcmctalk, would you be willing to elaborate on your experience with the statistics.com courses. Our son is considering that degree at TESU, and it would be very helpful to know how those courses are.

Were they too difficult? Too easy? Was the material not relevant? Or not explained very well? Was it too short (4 weeks) to master the material?

Or what else did you think about it?

We would much appreciate it!

Sure.  I took the courses about 5ish years ago, so some things may have changed (I'd be surprised given the age of the video I was provided).  I took the first 2 sets of the intro courses, the focus were on basics of statistics, topics like bootstrap, correlation, confidence interval, basic inference etc were covered.  As a technical person that worked with data for the past decade, the concept itself were not particularly difficult for me and I was excited to learn the classical vocabulary and academic methodologies to these statistical tools I utilize in my daily work.  

My experience of it was that the course materials didn't feel professional or academic, it felt like someone wrote it without an editor with academic background.  At times it was confusing what the material was trying to convey, and at times the topic goes on tangent like a blog post trying to make a point.  The video quality were poor, like it was recorded a decade ago, with the instructor using physical paper to illustration statistical concept instead of on-screen visualization.  For what you pay, which is fairly expensive considering it's like 800-1000 per course, I felt like I got more value out of watching khan academy or something similar, which is what I ended up doing. Ultimately you still have to sift through all the material, participate in exercises.  I don't believe there was an option to merely test out.  

To be fair, the courses did cover the materials outlined in the syllabus, and it's not like these basic statistics concepts need updating like programming languages or tech stacks. Ultimately for me the courses were not particularly engaging and the thought of another 1-2 yrs worth of similar quality instructions just wasn't something I was willing to put time in to optimize for.  

If your son is truly interested in data science as a field and is young with time to commit to classical education of the core material, I think a CC route to learn these concepts will be a better investment.  I work for one of the Fortune 500 tech companies in the bay and the almost all the DS I work with either have masters or PhD, with significant amount of them with PhD.  It doesn't mean you have to have these higher level degrees to enter but the technical interview will likely focus on fairly difficult data science questions and I don't get the impression Statistics.com would appropriately prepare you for something like that.  Data Analyst may be a potential entry level path but even then it's fairly competitive.  SWE have had a lot more autodidacts historically so recruiters seems more accepting of candidates from no-degree or degrees from less prestigious institutions and use technical reviews to weed people out but that's a much broader field and would make sense for there to be more non-degree holders in high positions. 

Anyway, hope that's helpful and happy to answer any other questions.

[bjcheung77]

@mcmctalk, I recall posting replies to one of your threads, basically, I am giving the same advice of a balanced mix/match certs, degree, experience. The reason to this is to round out your knowledge, learning gaps, resume, skill set, etc. At the end of the day, going for the MSIT (or similar masters) will trump going for a BSIT. Here are examples:

1) Age 25: I would recommend the BACS or BSIT as the prospective student will have less certs and experience. The educational goal is the MSIT. They can personalize and maximize the number of certs and gain some years of experience afterwards or before they finish the MSIT.

2) Age 45: I would recommend a quick check the box to go along with the certs and experience they currently have. Once done, go straight to the educational goal of MSIT. The number of certs and years of experience is already there, the only thing missing is the MSIT and the prerequisite bachelors.

Get this, people mostly think in a linear fashion, they believe it's best to go from BSIT > MSIT. I always mention, as long as the student has the prerequisites, they don't need to have an undergrad in that subject matter to get into a grad program. You don't need a BBA to get into the MBA, no BA Psych to get into MS Psych, no BSIT to get into the MSIT, etc.

TESU capstone (not cornerstone) alone is longer and more expensive than the session at UMPI where you can finish all 30 credits in one 8 week session. If you or those who are looking to get into a Masters, there are applied Masters programs that require a bachelors and just a few classes as prerequisites, if you're missing these, they all have bridging programs.

Your plan should get you to your goal cheaper, easier, faster with the least resistance. UMPI BLS> MAOL> WGU Masters
If you can get all of these done in 1 session, $1700, $2350, $4185 = $8,235 for a Bachelors and 2 Masters - WGU has several MSIT related Masters, pick one such as their MSCIA, MSCS, MSDS, MSITM, and their accelerated BSIT/MSITM (this is a one and done solution, but master is more management, not IT).

[mcmctalk]

Thanks for replying to my thread. My response to the other thread has to do with trying to consolidate your advice (since you give great ones) and an attempt at understanding your current thinking in terms of speed/economy. Based on your signature you've completed both TESU BSBA and are in progress to complete UMPI BAS & MAOL while working on TESU BA Bio / CS -- I'm not real sure why you're gathering these disparate degrees but safe to assume you have a lot of experience and is utilizing these experiences to point people in the right direction.

In regards to my original question and your answer ^. I agree with you, as a hiring manager for technical roles, I agree with your assessment. In tech industry in general, experience > degrees.

Coming back to your point on TESU capstone vs. UMPI though. I've been operating under the assumption that since you can transfer more credits into TESU, it's a faster route for someone with some RA credits. For my specific situation, I have about 30 CRs from RAs and I've assumed the best route is basically TESU as I can take majority of the CS courses via SDC or ASU (if I want to get letter grade for grad school admissions), and you get some incremental value in that it's a STEM degree vs. Liberal Arts -- main drawback being the capstone seems to onerous and time consuming (a whole semester and all consuming from what I read). Are you saying that an alternate and faster path is actually UMPI given the fact that you can transfer 90 CRs and the courses you have to take, though writing heavy, as a whole is actually quicker and easier than capstone + cornerstone?

I feel like I read the wiki back to back a few times but somehow this concept of UMPI being quicker is eluding me.

[bjcheung77]

Believe it or not, yes... The 10 UMPI classes combined are much easier, faster, less work - even though it does have writing assignments, than the Capstone for TESU. Here are a few examples of people who have completed CBE in record time, some are able to do 10 classes in a session but the majority will take two sessions at UMPI...

The UMPI 10 courses in 10 days thread: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...in-10-days
UMPI BLS double minor in 8 days: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...-in-8-days
Here's an example of someone completing the WGU MSCIA in 7 days: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...#pid409742

[mcmctalk]

Believe it or not, yes... The 10 UMPI classes combined are much easier, faster, less work - even though it does have writing assignments, than the Capstone for TESU.  Here are a few examples of people who have completed CBE in record time, some are able to do 10 classes in a session but the majority will take two sessions at UMPI...

The UMPI 10 courses in 10 days thread: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...in-10-days
UMPI BLS double minor in 8 days: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...-in-8-days
Here's an example of someone completing the WGU MSCIA in 7 days: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...#pid409742

This is interesting.  I wonder if based on your general recommendation of “earn your way up”, getting an Associates in CS via TESU then UMPI is a good option. Or if UofP could be faster since it doesn’t seem to have capstone.  Even with awful school name, it may provide better academic pathway for Most available grad school, which for me is the ultimate goal.

[bjcheung77]

TESU wouldn't be a good option because of one thing, grading system. You only take the bare minimum with them, 6 to 15 credits. If your GPA is average or above average from your previous 30 credits, even if you did pretty well at TESU, you would have bumped up the GPA only a bit. On the other hand, if you do the degree at UoPeople or UMPI, you get a minimum of 30 credits that are graded, depending on how high you want to raise that GPA, you can do a double major at UMPI, I don't know if that's possible at UoPeople.

[mcmctalk]

Great though. Something I would have never thought of, I do have 3.77 in my 30. And I also intent on doing some of the heavy math and Cs courses at RA via CC or ASU just to get some UL GPAs and also gets me some letters of recommendations. Hopefully with some of the graduate courses I’m already taking will qualify me for more prestigious programs.

Thanks for your help, it’s having me rethink about the Undergraduate portion of my path.

[bjcheung77]

Coursera, Edx, FutureLearn, Upgrad, and other MOOC's, etc, will have some type of program that may be an option for you. They partner with higher ranked institutions globally, mainly the ones in Australia, Canada, and UK/US. My recommendation is to go for Georgia Tech and University of Texas - Austin as your top choices, then find your backup or two from a short list you create from the list of MOOc's I mentioned. The main thing is, look at all the prerequisites they require, try to meet them and/or exceed those.

[spohara]

I think you also won't like study.com, it is very poor quality. The bright side is it at least gives you baseline exposure to topics. I've had to refresh on everything important or learn from outside sources.

In my opinion, data science isn't all that it is cracked up to be - but take that from someone who never broke into it (and I have no hard data to back up these opinions). It seems like companies are a bit disillusioned about what it can do for them. A lot of stuff that gives competitive advantage is just better ways of processing and aggregating boring business metrics, not a fancy algorithm that does prediction or classification.

My personal opinion is that the CS degree (whatever level you aim for) is the top of the list. Data science, IT, CIS, SWE degrees are fine - but in my opinion CS gives a certain baseline, or at least the indication of a certain baseline to employers. Data Structures, Algorithms, Networking, Architecture, Operating Systems, and Object Oriented Programming should prepare you for a CS graduate degree. Not sure how important calc is, but discrete math can be useful at times.

Also, tech is brutal right now, and likely will be until we have cheap credit and an economy on the upswing. Not to be a downer, I still think the industry is worth it and can pay, but just a sober look at things. I am of the opinion that a degree helps in this market, and I've had bites with no masters, take it for what it is worth.

[mcmctalk]

Thanks Spohara. I work in the industry and concur with your assessment on misalignment between business and technical in terms of DS. I currently manage a technical R&D team so I'm fairly seasoned in reading Python, SQL and packages, hopefully that gives me a good baseline.

I'm also making the assumption that I'll have to use outside resources to SDC, frankly I prefer it as I don't like the talking slides format. I see that you've completed TESU's BACS and also in the CU Boulder program for EM. What's been your experience so far? I'm taking the DSA pathway at Boulder right now and I'm finding the instructor engaging and materials interesting. Although topically it's fairly difficult and I'm definitely finding myself doing a lot of parallel study to keep up.