Pay Increase

[TrailRunr]

I think dfrecore has an excellent argument for how automation leads to new jobs even though I don't totally agree with it.

My problem with automation (and free trade deals and general cost-cutting) is that not everyone is going to be able to adapt to the jobs of tomorrow. Some immigrants refuse or can't learn English. Others don't have the ability to learn new skills for the jobs of tomorrow such as computer security and data scientist. There are people who will never rise above manual jobs like janitor. In my office, I have to take the trash out. The janitors take out the big cans of trash, clean the bathrooms, and move onto the next campus. Nobody goes to each office to empty the trash or vacuum the carpet anymore. As jobs evolve, some will be left behind. Realistically, what are truck drivers going to do when semi trucks are automated. What happens to the folks that work at truck stops? If you go to other countries, they have not tried as hard to cut costs and get rid of janitors. In fact, I enjoy the clean restrooms with janitorial staff at subway stations in Asia while I would never use a public restroom at a subway station in America with probably just one janitor responsible for the entire system per shift.

This is why I refuse to vote for corporate Democrats like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama even though I lean left. Hillary did not get my vote in 2016 despite an evil guy running on the other side. I will not vote for her in 2020 even if Trump is still around because I know Hillary thinks it's more important to throw millions of dollars worth of missiles into Syria just like Trump. Corporate Democrats are just a bunch of talk about retraining coal miners and ineffective retraining programs that just doesn't cut it anymore. The last guy had eight years and didn't get the job done. That's why the evil guy won. Many of those displaced by NAFTA, corporate cost cutting, and automation are not capable of assuming the remaining middle class jobs because those jobs have evolved to become too complicated and advanced. Nobody wants welfare programs that barely keep food on the table. They want middle class jobs (which might have to be partially subsidized by the feds). The DNC doesn't get it and I'm very sad about that since that leaves me with almost nobody to vote for.

[jsd]

The DNC hasn't learned this lesson, by the way.

We're in for a lot more hurt.

[TESUAbroad]

I don't know why this thread had to derail into politics. My opinion on that matter is to use a system with a transferrable voting system so that votes aren't lost when voting for an obscure party, but just moved to your next favorite party, this video , explains the basics of that system. Basically, the jist of it is, instead of people being afraid to vote green party and picking the lesser of two evils, they can pick their favorite first, then if that guy never makes it anywhere, their vote still goes to the less of two evils.

Anyways, back to automation. Usually I'm a pessimist, I understand where the fear comes from, but that fear has been with us since the beginning of mankind. Yes, there are going to be winners and losers, but that's also part of humanity.
Slowly more and more things will be automated, but as Drefcore has mentioned this frees up time for other things . Even if you don't notice it, there's already a gigantic market opening up as we speak and that market starts with companies like SpaceX. Eventually we will be mining asteroids and having them as pseudo-gas stations(they're usually rich with hydrogen) to fill up rockets. We will colonize planets like Mars. Technology will advance further and we will eventually discover much more and inhabit much of our solar system.
Whilst on earth, new jobs may open up not just in outerspace, but tourism offices for outerspace, perhaps refineries for rare earth metals mined from asteroids(such as platinum).

It is just as possible we will just blow ourselves up with nukes, but we haven't done that yet, and even the most selfish greedy humans don't want to die, so I don't see this happening.
It is also possible that we will inadvertently create highly intellectual AI who are programmed to perfect this world, and it's intelligence see us as the threat to the world.

According to Steven Hawking, we will eventually create "Super" humans, that are more perfected than our current species, and they will eventually create robots in pursuit to keep intellectual life alive in the universe.
If we are the only ones(which I don't believe so), then it would be our prime directive to make sure that intellectual life lives on in this vast emptiness of the universe.

Also, you can't really use healthcare costs in comparison with wage increases. I think at this point everyone knows that legislation forced healthcare companies to change their policies, and in retaliation they jacked up prices and due to the policies, got more subscribers. The idea behind it was great, the execution was awful.

Sadly the best way to get a salary increase nowadays is not loyalty but jumping ship(this does not apply to all fields though).

[jsd]

You don't know why a thread essentially about economics brought up the politics surrounding those economics?

Of course, I agree with your impulse to steer it elsewhere. Talking about politics on this forum is a recipe for disaster.

[dfrecore]

I think dfrecore has an excellent argument for how automation leads to new jobs even though I don't totally agree with it.

My problem with automation (and free trade deals and general cost-cutting) is that not everyone is going to be able to adapt to the jobs of tomorrow. Some immigrants refuse or can't learn English. Others don't have the ability to learn new skills for the jobs of tomorrow such as computer security and data scientist. There are people who will never rise above manual jobs like janitor.

Aha - but you are assuming that all of a particular type of job will go away overnight, which is not what normally happens. It normally takes a very long time for something to shift. With cars - which were invented in the late 1800's - we did not see horses and buggies completely go away the day after Henry Ford created his company. Instead, it took 20+ years before cars finally overtook horses/buggies. During that time, people that couldn't make the shift didn't have to. People that could make the shift, gradually did. And younger people who could see the future coming, never got into the horse and buggy business to begin with. So as fewer and fewer horses/buggies were around, there were also fewer and fewer people depending on them for their livelihood.

This is how attrition works. It's a market shift that naturally occurs, and no one has to tell people to get out of the dying horse and buggy business.

[icampy]

I don't know why this thread had to derail into politics. My opinion on that matter is to use a system with a transferrable voting system so that votes aren't lost when voting for an obscure party, but just moved to your next favorite party, this video , explains the basics of that system. Basically, the jist of it is, instead of people being afraid to vote green party and picking the lesser of two evils, they can pick their favorite first, then if that guy never makes it anywhere, their vote still goes to the less of two evils.

Anyways, back to automation. Usually I'm a pessimist, I understand where the fear comes from, but that fear has been with us since the beginning of mankind. Yes, there are going to be winners and losers, but that's also part of humanity.
Slowly more and more things will be automated, but as Drefcore has mentioned this frees up time for other things . Even if you don't notice it, there's already a gigantic market opening up as we speak and that market starts with companies like SpaceX. Eventually we will be mining asteroids and having them as pseudo-gas stations(they're usually rich with hydrogen) to fill up rockets. We will colonize planets like Mars. Technology will advance further and we will eventually discover much more and inhabit much of our solar system.
Whilst on earth, new jobs may open up not just in outerspace, but tourism offices for outerspace, perhaps refineries for rare earth metals mined from asteroids(such as platinum).

It is just as possible we will just blow ourselves up with nukes, but we haven't done that yet, and even the most selfish greedy humans don't want to die, so I don't see this happening.
It is also possible that we will inadvertently create highly intellectual AI who are programmed to perfect this world, and it's intelligence see us as the threat to the world.

According to Steven Hawking, we will eventually create "Super" humans, that are more perfected than our current species, and they will eventually create robots in pursuit to keep intellectual life alive in the universe.
If we are the only ones(which I don't believe so), then it would be our prime directive to make sure that intellectual life lives on in this vast emptiness of the universe.

Also, you can't really use healthcare costs in comparison with wage increases. I think at this point everyone knows that legislation forced healthcare companies to change their policies, and in retaliation they jacked up prices and due to the policies, got more subscribers. The idea behind it was great, the execution was awful.

Sadly the best way to get a salary increase nowadays is not loyalty but jumping ship(this does not apply to all fields though).

Good post. Dont forget Blue Origin, though :-)