Online Juris Doctor

[GMT]

I have been looking into an online Juris Doctor for some time as a potential post grad
Anyone here doing/done one?
I know the negatives but I am looking at a cheaper California one as opposed to an expensive ABA one.

ABA option now has two, for those who are interested

Mitchell Hamline: Hybrid J.D. Program

Syracuse: https://onlinelaw.syr.edu/

Be nice to get some feedback on the cheaper non ABA schools

[bjcheung77]

I have been looking into an online Juris Doctor for some time as a potential post grad
Anyone here doing/done one?
I know the negatives but I am looking at a cheaper California one as opposed to an expensive ABA one.

ABA option now has two, for those who are interested

Mitchell Hamline: Hybrid J.D. Program

Syracuse: https://onlinelaw.syr.edu/

Be nice to get some feedback on the cheaper non ABA schools

Hello, Hope this helps...
Here's a list of top programs for cheap: 2016 Most Affordable Online Law & Legal Studies Degree Programs - OnlineU
You may want to go for Concord Law School (Purchased by Kaplan University in 2007) Online Law School Tuition and Book Fees | Concord Law School

If Nationally Accredited JD's in California would fit the bill, then there's a few.
Abraham Lincoln: Law School Admissions | Affordable Online School | ALU
Taft Law School: https://www.taftu.edu/TLS/1_tuition.htm

There are a few more cheap ones (under 10 grand a year), I don't recall which ones.
I was looking about a decade ago for cheap degrees and came across a list of CA ones.
It was $1500/year before they were accredited but did allow for CA Bar Exam.
How tuition prices rose so much during the last 10 years, I don't know.

[jsd]

I have been looking into an online Juris Doctor for some time as a potential post grad
Anyone here doing/done one?
I know the negatives but I am looking at a cheaper California one as opposed to an expensive ABA one.

ABA option now has two, for those who are interested

Mitchell Hamline: Hybrid J.D. Program

Syracuse: https://onlinelaw.syr.edu/

Be nice to get some feedback on the cheaper non ABA schools

I knew about Mitchell Hamline, but I had no idea Syracuse got approval as well. The tides are finally turning in the ABA world. [Edit: Syracuse's hybrid program actually doesn't have ABA approval yet, but they're pretty optimistic they'll get it, especially with the Mitchell Hamline precedent]

You say you know the negatives, but for those that don't --- remember, all those non-ABA schools will ONLY let you practice in California, it'll be a useless degree everywhere else, as you won't be eligible to sit for any other state's bar.

And that's if you pass the baby bar (first-year exam that "real" law school students don't have to take) which is intentionally made difficult to pass, some argue harder than the real bar. Only about 20% of all takers passed this most recent round, and that is typical.

And then of course you have to pass the real bar, and these schools do not prepare you for it. passage rate is abysmal -- 11% this most recent round, again not atypical, and just a horrible track record for these schools.

There's a reason 9/10 students drop out of these non-ABA approved schools within year one.

Oh, and I said they're useless outside of CA... they're also useless inside of CA, even if you pass the bar. The lawyer market is flooded, and school ranking is huge in this world. Lawyers from well known but lower tiered schools have trouble. An ABA-unaccredited school won't even get you an interview. You'll be laughed out the door. And you certainly won't be hired to teach law.

So, if you want a degree with no practical value and you just want a hobby degree, I guess so be it. It's not the most expensive useless degree out there, but 4 years of extensive study (no accelerated options for bar-eligible tracks) that won't even prepare you for he ultimate JD goal of bar passage seems like too much of an investment to throw away for me, personally. 4 years is a long time.

[GMT]

I knew about Mitchell Hamline, but I had no idea Syracuse got approval as well. The tides are finally turning in the ABA world. [Edit: Syracuse's hybrid program actually doesn't have ABA approval yet, but they're pretty optimistic they'll get it, especially with the Mitchell Hamline precedent]

You say you know the negatives, but for those that don't --- remember, all those non-ABA schools will ONLY let you practice in California, it'll be a useless degree everywhere else, as you won't be eligible to sit for any other state's bar.

And that's if you pass the baby bar (first-year exam that "real" law school students don't have to take) which is intentionally made difficult to pass, some argue harder than the real bar. Only about 20% of all takers passed this most recent round, and that is typical.

And then of course you have to pass the real bar, and these schools do not prepare you for it. passage rate is abysmal -- 11% this most recent round, again not atypical, and just a horrible track record for these schools.

There's a reason 9/10 students drop out of these non-ABA approved schools within year one.

Oh, and I said they're useless outside of CA... they're also useless inside of CA, even if you pass the bar. The lawyer market is flooded, and school ranking is huge in this world. Lawyers from well known but lower tiered schools have trouble. An ABA-unaccredited school won't even get you an interview. You'll be laughed out the door. And you certainly won't be hired to teach law.

So, if you want a degree with no practical value and you just want a hobby degree, I guess so be it. It's not the most expensive useless degree out there, but 4 years of extensive study (no accelerated options for bar-eligible tracks) that won't even prepare you for he ultimate JD goal of bar passage seems like too much of an investment to throw away for me, personally. 4 years is a long time.

For young people, I agree, it's a bad move to look solely at the unaccredited California law schools.
Though, there are ABA schools which will take your crappy JD and accept you onto an LLM, enabling you to further your career beyond the doorways of downtown Hollywood. Not many, but a couple.

However, for those of us who are older and simply want to become a qualified lawyer, giving the option of "hanging out their own shingle", these schools are a wonderful option

The California bar exam is currently the hardest to pass, but at least they're cutting it down to two days Board OKs two-day bar exam starting in 2017

The Baby Bar is a good test of your legal metal. If you can't pass the bar on just 3 of the subjects, what's the point of carrying on?
You get 3 attempts before getting kicked out of the unaccredited school. If you can't do it, they just saved you 3 more years of hard work and money.

However for an ambitious self learner with a big dream but only a shoebox of saved dimes and nickels ... these schools could change their stars

[jsd]

It's more realistic to find a scholarship to an approved law school than it is to make one of these degrees work for you (even with the plan to start your own firm), even if you're the best student in the class. Not that the scholarship is particularly easy.

And nothing against you, I'm not doubting your hardwork or your smarts, but the odds are against you... let's say 1,000 students are in your cohort... 90% drop out within the first year, so we're already down to 100 students. Only 20% of those pass the baby bar, so 20 left. 11% of those will pass the real bar, or 2.2

It's POSSIBLE you'll be one of those odd 2-3 people who made it. But it's entirely improbable, no matter how ambitious, smart, and driven you are. a 0.22% chance.

And look at the opportunity cost... what could you have been putting all of that effort into for 1-4 years had you not gone? A graduate degree that meant more tangible success perhaps?

But I certainly can't tell you what to do. If that is a risk you're willing to take, I wish you luck, and hope in 4 years you can come back to rub my naysaying in my own face.

[dfrecore]

If you're planning on staying in CA, you don't even have to go to law school to sit for the bar! I think we are one of the only states with this, and I heard of a girl a few years ago who couldn't afford to go to law school, so studied for and passed the bar exam without ever setting foot in a law school. It's not easy, but it certainly is cheap!! And it take a full 4 years to do it. You can't shortcut it.

How to Pass the California State Bar Exam Without Law School

[jsd]

I think someone just did this in the last round of bar testing. It's basically the same thing the unaccredited schools do, except you're learning under the guidance of a judge/attorney for 4 years instead of online coursework. Still have to do the baby bar and all that. I think the last I saw a year or so ago, there was only ever 9 people who ever successfully did this. So now there might be 10!

Sure would save a good chunk of change!

[bjcheung77]

I think someone just did this in the last round of bar testing. It's basically the same thing the unaccredited schools do, except you're learning under the guidance of a judge/attorney for 4 years instead of online coursework. Still have to do the baby bar and all that. I think the last I saw a year or so ago, there was only ever 9 people who ever successfully did this. So now there might be 10!

Sure would save a good chunk of change!

If you're planning on staying in CA, you don't even have to go to law school to sit for the bar! I think we are one of the only states with this, and I heard of a girl a few years ago who couldn't afford to go to law school, so studied for and passed the bar exam without ever setting foot in a law school. It's not easy, but it certainly is cheap!! And it take a full 4 years to do it. You can't shortcut it.

How to Pass the California State Bar Exam Without Law School

That's amazing and an awesome accomplishment for whoever those people are that did it through self study or internships with existing lawyers...
I didn't know there were such options available, I guess for those who are truly motivated to do it yourself - that link is a great DIY start...

[Leedeedee]

There is one more option for this, if you're not worried about the academic qualification of JD. You can take the University of London External Programme LLB - you can self study this and it'll cost less than $5k, though it'll be hard work. I know there are some colleges also specialising in teaching for the LLB. Then study a masters degree at any ABA approved university in the US. Then you'll not only be eligible to take the bar in CA and get exemption from the baby bar but you'll also be eligible in NY. Not sure if this option is available in any other states.

[Leedeedee]

Here's a link to the programme. You have to choose standard entry, which is a 3 year course. LLB and Diploma in Law | University of London International Programmes