Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Republican Voter Suppression!
#11
My short thoughts:
Granted, perhaps that notion is true in "some" cases about minorities not feeling welcome in the Republican party, but just because they are the minority and that there are less of them in the party does not mean they are not welcome. Please don't let that confuse the question.

With regard to police laws in Arizona, I would assume you are thinking of the hispanic minority "primarily" in this case... these laws are only designed to protect all of the public in the best way the authorities know how. Illegal immigration is a crime and should be punished. It causes devastating damage to both parties involved:

For the U.S., it causes economic damage, unfair job competition, tax evasion etc. tax money wasted
people and private property (two of the most sacred rights in the Constitution) are put at risk
communicable disease risks

For illegal entrants: it cheapens the American experience, they will never feel that they can fully breathe the free air
and they may never actually care about what freedom, justice and peace are really about or worth, because
it didn't cost them anything.
It doesn't allow them to stand-up and fight against tyranny for their homes & families in their home country, instead of running away. They miss out in participating in a potentially powerful and somewhat miraculous revolution in their own nations.
#12
I'm sorry but I think you're missing the point. You speak of constitutional rights, what about personal liberty, and freedom?

Giving policemen the right to pull over and investigate individuals simply based on the color of their skin is a direct violation of the civil liberties of americans. Yes, illegal immigration is a problem, but this is not the solution. This will only serve to exacerbate the problem and target innocent American citizens who happen to have hispanic origins.

Essentially, the republican party has demonstrated time and again their lack of respect and trust towards minorities. I would like to see examples otherwise. And no, like I said earlier, a token member of the party who happens to be a minority doesn't count. I want examples of policy and legislation, then I'll consider your point of view.
Goal - BA Mathematics Major at TESC
Plan: International AP Calculus Teacher

COMPLETED: [B]123/B]
B&M (Philosophy, Psychology, Calculus I/II, Physics I/II, Discrete Structures I/II, Comp Sci, Astronomy, Ethics)*42 credits
Athabasca (Nutrition, Globalization)*6 credits
ALEKS (Stats, Precalculus)*6 credits
CLEPS (College Math 73, A&I Lit 73, French 63, Social Sciences and History 59, American Lit 57, English Lit 59)*42 credits
TECEP (English Composition I, II)*6 credits
TESC Courses (MAT 270 Discrete Math A, MAT 321 Linear Algebra B, MAT 331 Calculus III B+, MAT 332 Calculus IV B-,
MAT 361 College Geometry B+, MAT 401 Mathematical Logic B, LIB-495 Capstone B)*21 credits
DSST (MIS, Intro to Computing)*6 credits*(not using)
#13
On illegal immigration, give me a better solution. Our police are not like the oppressive police of some
third world regime.
With solid proof that there are illegal entrants in the country, how else is that problem going to be rectified?


Actually, you are missing the point.

The point is that the Republicans don't need to have legislation or policies that encourage minority participation,
because why should the minorities want anything different from any other American?

You're asking the Republican party to show favoritism by feeling like they have to cowtow to whims. When in reality
the principles of what the party stands for should be enough.

Additionally, if they don't want to stand for the party's principles I'm not sure the Republicans should want them
in the party.
#14
It is all about respect and not pandering. Sorry if I offend anyone, but a lot of white people just don't seem to understand what minorities have to go through because they are not in our shoes. We already have to deal with racial profiling. The last thing we want is another reason for police officers to harass us. I am not Hispanic and I do not look like the stereotypical criminal, but even I have been racially profiled a few times just for being black. When you joke about electric fences likening human beings to livestock, people are obviously going to feel disrespected. Another thing is a lot of conservatives often misunderstand Affirmative Action. It is not a quota system, which is illegal. Even with Affirmative Action, those with ethnic names on their resumes are less likely to get call backs than those with Anglo names. Studies have been done where the exact same resumes were sent out just with different names and the Anglo names got more call backs. This was done to control for qualification differences.

I actually do want to get tough on illegal immigration, but I don't think Arizona's law is the solution. I know we have had a tough time getting the federal government to do this, but the answer is to secure our borders and other entry points.

This video is just to give you an idea of what minorities have to go through with law enforcement. People think this is rare or non-existent because they don't have to live it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rWtDMPaRD8
Graduate of Not VUL or ENEB
MS, MSS and Graduate Cert
AAS, AS, BA, and BS
CLEP
Intro Psych 70, US His I 64, Intro Soc 63, Intro Edu Psych 70, A&I Lit 64, Bio 68, Prin Man 69, Prin Mar 68
DSST
Life Dev Psych 62, Fund Coun 68, Intro Comp 469, Intro Astr 56, Env & Hum 70, HTYH 456, MIS 451, Prin Sup 453, HRM 62, Bus Eth 458
ALEKS
Int Alg, Coll Alg
TEEX
4 credits
TECEP
Fed Inc Tax, Sci of Nutr, Micro, Strat Man, Med Term, Pub Relations
CSU
Sys Analysis & Design, Programming, Cyber
SL
Intro to Comm, Microbio, Acc I
Uexcel
A&P
Davar
Macro, Intro to Fin, Man Acc
#15
"Illegal immigration is a crime and should be punished" It's a federal crime. If the local law enforcement agencies have the staff to investigate this sort of crime, the citizens of those jurisdictions are very fortunate. I'm assuming they have the time to enforce federal crimes because the crime rates for violations of AZ statutes are low.

"For the U.S., it causes economic damage..." You know, I just don't understand how these people can be hired. I mean, doesn't the federal government aggressively go after all of the companies that hire these people and fine the heck out of them? Oh, yeah. The federal government doesn't. Could it be that big business doesn't WANT enforcement of these laws? After all, who would be cleaning the toilets of big business, cutting up chickens in the poultry factories, or harvesting the food? The dirty little non-secret, secret is that we ALL benefit by the abuse that these immigrants face. (I don't know about you, but I'm working toward a college degree so that I don't have to do that sort of work.)

"...they may never actually care about what freedom, justice and peace are really about or worth, because
it didn't cost them anything..." Just thousands of dollars to coyotes, and a chance to lose their lives in the deserts. Many of them put their lives on the line to come here for freedom, justice and peace.

"It doesn't allow them to stand-up and fight against tyranny for their homes & families in their home country, instead of running away." Really? REALLY? Unless your ancestors were native Americans, chances are VERY good that they "ran away" from tyranny in their countries of origin.

"You're asking the Republican party to show favoritism by feeling like they have to cowtow to whims." How quickly they forget. Does "47%" ring a bell with you? If Gov. Romney wasn't cowtowing to rich donors, why didn't he take THAT speech on the road? We are a heterogenus (spelling?) society. What is your position regarding US/Cuba relationships? Can you explain to me why it is the only country (I think!) that MY country won't let me visit unless I jump through unnecessary hoops? Can you explain to me why Cubans, once they set foot on American soil, are safe from deportation? (Sounds like cowtowing to someone, doesn't it?) And do you REALLY think that both parties don't cowtow to get the Jewish-American vote? (No, I'm not anti-semitic. Just making a point. What other small country has that much clout?)

There is no one view of what the government should be or do. If you run for office you cowtow to different groups - it's called building a base.

"The point is that the Republicans don't need to have legislation or policies that encourage minority participation,
because why should the minorities want anything different from any other American?" Again, we're not - nor were we ever - a heterogenus (where the heck is SpellCheck when I need it?) society. We all want different things. Parties should want to be inclusive because different view points help solve problems. We all focus on different things, and see things differently. If all parties (including the Democratic party) would listen to the views of everyone, we might come closer to finding the best answers to our problems.

BTW, I think that all of the parties are running away from delveloping a cohesive plan to address illegal immigration.
TESU BSBA - GM, September 2015

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Earl Nightingale, radio personality and motivational speaker
#16
No the Fed. does not go after these companies, at least not enough to do the job right, or the problem of illegal immigration would probably be nonexistent, because they wouldn't be able to get jobs.
However, there are still loopholes. For example, the professional lawn mowing industry, they can do it for cash and run their own business and not pay taxes etc. Additionally, in CA they have a huge problem with illegal immigration, that's why a lot of people are moving from CA. Talk about discrimination, they have whole hispanic construction crews that won't hire whites. Oh yeah, I know Americans "benefit" by illegal workers, but in the long run both the worker and employer are cheating themselves. Because America has an abundance of wealth it has indeed corrupted its government and citizens. We all want something for nothing, even when we pay for it. Also I don't think these immigrants consider doing our "dirty work" an abuse, they will soon though however, with the lazy, entitled attitude this country feeds them with its culture.

Actually what the immigrants risked to get here is no worse than what they had at home. So, they haven't risked anything more. And when they do get here they get it all but get it the wrong way. Granted nobody should have to live the way they do at home, but that's what hard work is for and back in the old days America could be proud of doing just that.

I do believe I have American indian ancestry but regardless and however, the people who settled America including my ancestors though they "ran away", they did it legally.


I am not familiar with our policies regarding Cuba; however, it sounds like the American government does not want the responsibility of protecting its citizens in a hostile country, but I don't know the answer to the other half. Actually, Romney would probably be correct if you add up all the handouts the government gives, and the handouts is where the cowtowing is. However, 46 million are on food stamps and that's an example of how deep in it a lot of people are. Its one thing to try to appeal to your voter, but its another to compromise your principles as a result or just not have any principles to begin with. Again, a party platform is just that, a platform. The people should come to it because they support its views, not the other way around. The platform should never change, though both parties are guilty of having candidates that try to change them.
You can't build a base from opposing viewpoints and the people who hold them, so its best if the people change to meet the base, obviously that's not perfectly possible or we would have no majorities and minorities.

If something is right, it isn't wrong and something with vital importance has no middle ground on that scale.

Yes, unfortunately, we don't have perfect parties; they're too old to be perfect.

To Sanantone,

I think regarding the resume call backs, People in business usually have one top priority motivator and that's money. Whoever, they think will do the best job and make the most money, they'll hire.
Granted sometimes prejudice does enter into it because of preconceived notions, but who's to judge someone's thoughts? The Federal government?
The federal government is not justified in telling people who to hire in Affirmative Action. That should be left to free enterprise, because otherwise it compromises founding principles of freedom.
To be honest, if there was more morality in America, business practices and attitudes towards other people would be better.
I suppose it may depend on exactly where someone lives but racial profiling, on the whole is non-existent. With respect to Arizona's law, the policeman must have a reasonable suspicion that the person is illegal to trigger the requirement. For example, if they have a car that doesn't meet inspection requirements or don't have insurance etc. those are violations of the law along with the fact that, come to find out they aren't legal! At any rate, that would be an example of a reasonable stop. I do believe the law will help prevent crimes committed by illegals already here and prevent harm to the local citizens. However, a wall would definitely be good as well.

Generally, people are just fed up by the abuses they receive from the illegals. Tax evasion, emergency room use, no car insurance for wrecks, stolen or destroyed property etc. Then of course there are the more serious crimes of murder etc. For example a 19 year old girl was killed in her apartment because an illegal was trying to steal something.
Those things boil people's blood and something does need to be done. The American government should be ashamed of its lack of concern for one of the reasons it was created, protecting the people. The U.S. citizens should to, but we don't care enough to even have a slight interest to know what our government does, we don't care....
What's a matter with us?

All of this is way too long, however, it should make sense.
#17
I have to add a couple more things,

An illegal is a criminal therefore they do not and should not receive the same privileges as a U.S. citizen.



And to what was said about favoring Israel. Israel is an American ally. We owe our allies our support, of
course they will get preferential treatment. Not too mention currently, OUR ally is under attack and they
severely need our support. And they should get it. It should be the same for any of our allies in good standing.
#18
Racism is not rational. If someone does not want to hire a person of a certain race, they will not hire a person of a certain race even if it means choosing someone slightly less qualified. I think you should read this woman's story. There are studies to back up her experience.

Unemployed Black Woman Pretends to be White, Job Offers Suddenly Skyrocket | Techyville
'Black' Names A Resume Burden? - CBS News

What compels you to make such outrageous statements without anything to back them up? First, it was most Protestants don't consider Catholics to be Christian. Now, it's racial profiling is almost non-existent. Maybe you've never seen racial profiling because you and your family members aren't the type to be profiled.
http://www.auburn.edu/outreach/cgs/ask_a...202005.pdf
Americans See Racial Profiling as Widespread

Even though illegally entering the country is a crime within itself, you are less likely to be victimized by an illegal immigrant than a person who is legally here. It only makes sense because you would think illegal immigrants would try to do everything possible to stay under the radar and not risk being deported.
https://asunews.asu.edu/node/24489
Graduate of Not VUL or ENEB
MS, MSS and Graduate Cert
AAS, AS, BA, and BS
CLEP
Intro Psych 70, US His I 64, Intro Soc 63, Intro Edu Psych 70, A&I Lit 64, Bio 68, Prin Man 69, Prin Mar 68
DSST
Life Dev Psych 62, Fund Coun 68, Intro Comp 469, Intro Astr 56, Env & Hum 70, HTYH 456, MIS 451, Prin Sup 453, HRM 62, Bus Eth 458
ALEKS
Int Alg, Coll Alg
TEEX
4 credits
TECEP
Fed Inc Tax, Sci of Nutr, Micro, Strat Man, Med Term, Pub Relations
CSU
Sys Analysis & Design, Programming, Cyber
SL
Intro to Comm, Microbio, Acc I
Uexcel
A&P
Davar
Macro, Intro to Fin, Man Acc
#19
It is true of course that someone is more likely to be victimized by a citizen than an illegal; however, that's obvious because right now illegals are less than the citizens, so by numbers, of course. Sometimes that's not true however, depending on where you live.
Yeah, you would think they would avoid trying to break any more laws in order to stay off the radar. However, they've already gotten away with a big crime, I think you are attributing to them more respect for our laws than there is. Also being off the system of identification that citizens have they have more chances to break a law and not be tracked as easily.
I would think that because they have already committed a federal crime that it would reasonable to see why people would suspect they would commit another. Here is a link supplying some evidence. There is also a lot of data on there that I would deem credible.
Criminal Aliens (2012)


Also, I will admit I made a very biased and filtered statement from my own very singular point of view regarding protestants and catholics. I was speaking only from my narrow point of view and that skewed a reality that I wasn't seeing.

I should also have clarified terms. What do you mean by racial profiling? It appears to me that you mean that racial profiling is an act of racist, hatred for other people.
I understood it that way, and I do not believe that racial profiling as a form of hatred is widespread. I do not think that hatred for one race by another is prominent across the U.S.

If you meant that racial profiling is used as a general identification of people, then I would have to agree despite my losing that argument. I would actually retract my statement and agree that racial profiling happens a lot, all the time, because that's what people do. They classify people.
For example, oriental people may have the profile that they are all smart, excellent classical musicians and hard workers, just because some of them here in the U.S. have made such great advances of those sort.
On the flip side, terrorists ought to be profiled. If you see a guy running across the street with a drawn gun, he is definitely going to get some attention, and the first thing you may think will probably be something negative, like ‘he’s a terrorist’.

You can profile on lot’s of different aspects, for example clothing. Culture has a lot to do with it as well, and whether you like it or not the muslim culture has given itself the image of being lenient if not proponent of terrorism. So that’s another example. If you neglect classifying you give up all protection or care for other people.

Stereotypes and profiles are not 100% true, obviously. The majority of people are up to no harm etc. However, if someone is not fitting the norm or does something that makes them stick out, they are more subject to profiling. They will be noticed. For example, if someone has a fancy car but lives in a poor neighborhood, that person will likely cause questions. People will wonder: ‘if he had the money for the car why does he live here?’ etc.

You seem to want racism to disappear when its not in your favor, but don’t mind racism when it is in your favor as with Affirmative Action.
Racism is putting a race or gender above other races or genders.
Favoring affirmative action dissolves your argument against racially profiling.

If you can’t live without Affirmative action, what does that say for those favored races or the people of minorities who benefit from it? Is it saying that they are not ever capable of being successful in whatever capacity they apply for? Of course not. Affirmative action is just a racist choice and irresponsible.
The way you feel about racial profiling could be the way I feel about affirmative action.
Based on skin color, other people get favors.
Does that sound right to you?

I’m not going to say that negative, bad racial profiling doesn’t happen, but I don’t see how it helps you to hold on to those cases which I believe are the minority.
Why continually stir up bad feelings?

All races do bad things, and we should own them from our individual races.
We don’t wink at them and say that we expect certain pay-back favors.
We can speak about bad things that have happened, but we need to look at the people as the offenders, not the race. We can’t see a white cop beating a black guy and horribly abusing his power of the badge and law and say well, ‘that’s how all white people feel’.
Or a black person who committed a murder or other horrible crime, we can’t say well, ‘that’s how all black people are’.
Neither of that is right.
#20
Reading these posts have made me a little depressed.

I read earlier a comment on how the situation in America is no better than what they had back home, and they won't appreciate it here because they're about to get spoiled. Firstly, that's an assumption that's likely wrong. Secondly, who are you to say that only YOU are entitled to these benefits, that these illegal immigrant "things" better work like dogs? You sound like a slave trader complaining about the North. Your thoughts here are quite dangerous. Also, let's not get all righteous and pretend you've never been given anything by the government. I think that's the ultimate folly of conservative supporters, who feel they've earned everything entirely on their own, without any support. That's what Obama was trying to say with his comment, before conservatives took him out of context and even edited his video, creating an entire campaign slogan on "You didn't build that"

The fact is, we're all human beings. Whether you're Mitt living off daddy's millions, a middle class kid living in a suburb, a child born to crack addicts, or an immigrant living in squalor dreaming for a piece of the American Dream. Why are two of these people accepted (and showered with benefits) and two of them are thrown aside, forced to live off scraps?

If you were born to any kind of middle class american family, you should be eternally grateful for what you have. You've won the lottery, the vast majority of the world will never get what you are essentially guaranteed to get. Stop pretending your life was so hard, I can almost guarantee you it wasn't. My last 4 years in China have really opened my eyes in this respect. I think there are many (myself included) who don't truly understand poverty. Sure we learn about it, but to really comprehend what suffering people go through is so foreign (hah) to us.

For the very few who have come up from poverty (and wow, that number is so small), try to find one who's a true conservative. You'll have a hard time. That's because they understand how much harder it was for them, how the deck was constantly stacked against them, and see the injustice in that. The majority of these people are quite liberal and generous to the lower class.

Why don't you go back and look at the constitution? The bill of rights? America was founded on the principles of equality. Of defending the little guy. Where did we go so wrong?
Goal - BA Mathematics Major at TESC
Plan: International AP Calculus Teacher

COMPLETED: [B]123/B]
B&M (Philosophy, Psychology, Calculus I/II, Physics I/II, Discrete Structures I/II, Comp Sci, Astronomy, Ethics)*42 credits
Athabasca (Nutrition, Globalization)*6 credits
ALEKS (Stats, Precalculus)*6 credits
CLEPS (College Math 73, A&I Lit 73, French 63, Social Sciences and History 59, American Lit 57, English Lit 59)*42 credits
TECEP (English Composition I, II)*6 credits
TESC Courses (MAT 270 Discrete Math A, MAT 321 Linear Algebra B, MAT 331 Calculus III B+, MAT 332 Calculus IV B-,
MAT 361 College Geometry B+, MAT 401 Mathematical Logic B, LIB-495 Capstone B)*21 credits
DSST (MIS, Intro to Computing)*6 credits*(not using)


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)