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TESU 2nd Degree Policy Dual AOS?
#1
I am not sure if I am actually going to pursue this but I'd to get some insight on this either way.


It is a pretty well stated policy that TESU requires 24 new credits to be earned after degree conferral for a second degree and those 24 credits must be in the AOS. But what if the 2nd degree is a dual AOS (ex. BA History/English)? Does it then require 48 credits? Or is it still 24? and if it is 24 does it matter how the credits are distributed? 

For example:

0 new credits AOS one
21 new credits AOS two
3 new credits capstone

Would this distribution of credits be allowed?

I did try contacting TESU about this but their response didn't really answer my question and left me more confused.

I was wondering if anyone on this forum has personally done this (first bachelors conferred and then go back for a 2nd bachelors that is dual AOS at TESU. Anyone with any insights would be appreciated. Thanks.
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#2
(07-19-2020, 11:10 AM)natshar Wrote: It is a pretty well stated policy that TESU requires 24 new credits to be earned after degree conferral for a second degree and those 24 credits must be in the AOS. But what if the 2nd degree is a dual AOS (ex. BA History/English)? Does it then require 48 credits? Or is it still 24? and if it is 24 does it matter how the credits are distributed? 

For example:

0 new credits AOS one
21 new credits AOS two
3 new credits capstone

Would this distribution of credits be allowed?

I did try contacting TESU about this but their response didn't really answer my question and left me more confused.

First of all, you need to understand that that 24 credits is the minimum amount of new credits required after the conferral of the latest degree. However, you still must meet all the normal degree requirements. This means you must have courses that meet all the requirements for the major (core and AOS) in the second degree. So, just to be clear, if you need more than 24 credits to meet those degree requirements, and you don't have them from prior coursework, then you will need to bring in more than 24 new credits. 24 of the new credits (including the capstone) must be in the core and/or AoS. Also, keep in mind that if there are any degree pre-requisites required from GenEd's (like a minimum level of math or specific science/lab courses) those requirements must also be met (either with prior or new credits).

The 24 credits minimum is really just to ensure that someone who already has most or all of the credits required for the second degree from prior coursework will still need to bring in at least 8 new courses in the area of study and/or core to qualify for the new degree. It doesn't mean that you only need to complete 24 credits of the second AoS.

So, if you're aiming to come back for a second degree and you're planning for a dual AoS degree, then my understanding is that you'd need to meet the AoS requirements for both degrees. Also keep in mind that you can only share 9 credits (3 courses) between the two AoS in the second degree. You'll need at least 24 new credits that can be applied to the core of the second degree (if any) and/or the two areas of study, though more than likely you'll need to bring in a lot more than 24 credits to complete the requirements for the two areas of study.

For example, let's say I'm looking to complete a second bachelor's degree in Computer Science from TESU. The degree plan looks like this:

I. General Education (60 credits) – including the cornerstone
II. Area of Study (39 credits)
   A. Required Courses (18 credits)
   B. Capstone (3 credits)
   C. Computer Science Electives (18 credits)
III. Free Electives (21 credits)

Since I already have a bachelor's degree, I don't need to worry about section I. I also don't need to worry about section III since my prior credits will meet any free elective requirement. So the only thing I need to worry about is section II (the area of study).

Let's say that my prior coursework includes a ton of CIS and COS courses that meet all of the requirements for section II-C including the upper-level requirements. That should mean that I only have the 18 credits in II-A and the capstone in II-B to worry about, however that is only 18+3 = 21 credits. So I'd have to replace at least one of the courses in II-C with a new course so make sure I am completing at least 24 new credits in section II.

Now, say I wanted to do a dual AoS with CS and Math. In addition to the requirements for the BA CS, I now have to meet the requirements of the BA Math as well. For that, sections I (General Education) and III (Free Electives) are the same, so I just need to worry about section II (Area of Study). Since we're doing a dual AoS, we can share section II-B (Capstone), but I'd still need to meet the requirements for II-A (Required Courses) and II-C (Math Electives).

In this latter case, since I don't have a ton of math on my transcripts, but let's say I have 3 courses (9 credits) that work in the AoS of the BACS and BA Math. In that case, those 9 credits can be shared between the two areas of study. But the bulk of my BA Math section II-A and II-C will come from new credits.

So, I'd need a total of 33 credits (30 + 3 capstone) in the BA Math, of which I only have 9 credits. So I'd need to bring in at 30 - 9 = 21 additional credits to meet my BA Math requirements. In addition, I also need 18 more credits (not including the capstone) in the BACS. So in total, I'd need to bring in 39 (21+18) credits in addition to the 3 credit capstone I'd need to complete at TESU. That more than meets the 24 minimum credit requirement for the second degree.

It is a bit complicated, but I tried to break it down so it is easier to see logically. Most people would not be looking at a dual AoS degree, particularly as a second degree, so I doubt this has come up for many people in the past. Hopefully, that helps make the process a bit more clear.

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether the capstone counts as part of the 9 credits shared between the two AoS or if it is considered new for both. I think it is the latter, and that is how I explained it above.
Working on: Researching doctoral programs for a potential 2021-22 start

Complete:
MBA (IT Management), 2019, Western Governors University
BSBA (Computer Information Systems), 2019, Thomas Edison State University
ASNSM (Computer Science), 2018, Thomas Edison State University

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#3
(07-19-2020, 07:30 PM)Merlin Wrote:
(07-19-2020, 11:10 AM)natshar Wrote: It is a pretty well stated policy that TESU requires 24 new credits to be earned after degree conferral for a second degree and those 24 credits must be in the AOS. But what if the 2nd degree is a dual AOS (ex. BA History/English)? Does it then require 48 credits? Or is it still 24? and if it is 24 does it matter how the credits are distributed? 

For example:

0 new credits AOS one
21 new credits AOS two
3 new credits capstone

Would this distribution of credits be allowed?

I did try contacting TESU about this but their response didn't really answer my question and left me more confused.

First of all, you need to understand that that 24 credits is the minimum amount of new credits required after the conferral of the latest degree. However, you still must meet all the normal degree requirements. This means you must have courses that meet all the requirements for the major (core and AOS) in the second degree. So, just to be clear, if you need more than 24 credits to meet those degree requirements, and you don't have them from prior coursework, then you will need to bring in more than 24 new credits. 24 of the new credits (including the capstone) must be in the core and/or AoS. Also, keep in mind that if there are any degree pre-requisites required from GenEd's (like a minimum level of math or specific science/lab courses) those requirements must also be met (either with prior or new credits).

The 24 credits minimum is really just to ensure that someone who already has most or all of the credits required for the second degree from prior coursework will still need to bring in at least 8 new courses in the area of study and/or core to qualify for the new degree. It doesn't mean that you only need to complete 24 credits of the second AoS.

So, if you're aiming to come back for a second degree and you're planning for a dual AoS degree, then my understanding is that you'd need to meet the AoS requirements for both degrees. Also keep in mind that you can only share 9 credits (3 courses) between the two AoS in the second degree. You'll need at least 24 new credits that can be applied to the core of the second degree (if any) and/or the two areas of study, though more than likely you'll need to bring in a lot more than 24 credits to complete the requirements for the two areas of study.

For example, let's say I'm looking to complete a second bachelor's degree in Computer Science from TESU. The degree plan looks like this:

I. General Education (60 credits) – including the cornerstone
II. Area of Study (39 credits)
   A. Required Courses (18 credits)
   B. Capstone (3 credits)
   C. Computer Science Electives (18 credits)
III. Free Electives (21 credits)

Since I already have a bachelor's degree, I don't need to worry about section I. I also don't need to worry about section III since my prior credits will meet any free elective requirement. So the only thing I need to worry about is section II (the area of study).

Let's say that my prior coursework includes a ton of CIS and COS courses that meet all of the requirements for section II-C including the upper-level requirements. That should mean that I only have the 18 credits in II-A and the capstone in II-B to worry about, however that is only 18+3 = 21 credits. So I'd have to replace at least one of the courses in II-C with a new course so make sure I am completing at least 24 new credits in section II.

Now, say I wanted to do a dual AoS with CS and Math. In addition to the requirements for the BA CS, I now have to meet the requirements of the BA Math as well. For that, sections I (General Education) and III (Free Electives) are the same, so I just need to worry about section II (Area of Study). Since we're doing a dual AoS, we can share section II-B (Capstone), but I'd still need to meet the requirements for II-A (Required Courses) and II-C (Math Electives).

In this latter case, since I don't have a ton of math on my transcripts, but let's say I have 3 courses (9 credits) that work in the AoS of the BACS and BA Math. In that case, those 9 credits can be shared between the two areas of study. But the bulk of my BA Math section II-A and II-C will come from new credits.

So, I'd need a total of 33 credits (30 + 3 capstone) in the BA Math, of which I only have 9 credits. So I'd need to bring in at 30 - 9 = 21 additional credits to meet my BA Math requirements. In addition, I also need 18 more credits (not including the capstone) in the BACS. So in total, I'd need to bring in 39 (21+18) credits in addition to the 3 credit capstone I'd need to complete at TESU. That more than meets the 24 minimum credit requirement for the second degree.

It is a bit complicated, but I tried to break it down so it is easier to see logically. Most people would not be looking at a dual AoS degree, particularly as a second degree, so I doubt this has come up for many people in the past. Hopefully, that helps make the process a bit more clear.

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether the capstone counts as part of the 9 credits shared between the two AoS or if it is considered new for both. I think it is the latter, and that is how I explained it above.
Yes, the capstone is 3 credits out of the 9 credits (the three courses allowed to overlap)
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#4
(07-19-2020, 08:09 PM)Lacedonia4 Wrote: Yes, the capstone is 3 credits out of the 9 credits (the three courses allowed to overlap)

In that case, it is really only 6 credits (2 courses) that can overlap between the two areas of study since you will always share a common capstone. Sad
Working on: Researching doctoral programs for a potential 2021-22 start

Complete:
MBA (IT Management), 2019, Western Governors University
BSBA (Computer Information Systems), 2019, Thomas Edison State University
ASNSM (Computer Science), 2018, Thomas Edison State University

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#5
It's 24 for each AOS, but the capstone counts for both. You may be able to have other courses that counts for both, depending on what the AOS are. Like if they were Math and CompSci, the CompSci AOS allows for math electives. Generally it seems hard to find more than one or two that counts for both.

Edit: I did not know about the max overlap. So apparently you'd be doing 39 credits total if you use the maximum 9 credit overlap.
TESU BSBA (with ASNSM) in Mar 2018. Working on 2nd Masters and did a lot toward second TESU degree.
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#6
If you have to take 30 credits, why not just get a master's degree? Many master's programs are 30 credits and that is a more advanced degree which will go further.
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#7
(07-20-2020, 11:09 AM)ss20ts Wrote: If you have to take 30 credits, why not just get a master's degree? Many master's programs are 30 credits and that is a more advanced degree which will go further.

Agreed. It always makes more sense to pursue a graduate degree than a second bachelor's degree unless you have a specific need. For example, you need a CS bachelor's degree to get into a CS master's or Ph.D. program.
Working on: Researching doctoral programs for a potential 2021-22 start

Complete:
MBA (IT Management), 2019, Western Governors University
BSBA (Computer Information Systems), 2019, Thomas Edison State University
ASNSM (Computer Science), 2018, Thomas Edison State University

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#8
(07-20-2020, 06:39 AM)Ideas Wrote: It's 24 for each AOS, but the capstone counts for both. You may be able to have other courses that counts for both, depending on what the AOS are. Like if they were Math and CompSci, the CompSci AOS allows for math electives. Generally it seems hard to find more than one or two that counts for both.

Edit: I did not know about the max overlap. So apparently you'd be doing 39 credits total if you use the maximum 9 credit overlap.

Pretty sure it is just 24 total.  The 9 overlap is the controlling rule for the second AoS.  Still a pretty silly paper chase except in very specific situations.
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#9
(07-20-2020, 08:38 PM)tallpilot Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 06:39 AM)Ideas Wrote: It's 24 for each AOS, but the capstone counts for both. You may be able to have other courses that counts for both, depending on what the AOS are. Like if they were Math and CompSci, the CompSci AOS allows for math electives. Generally it seems hard to find more than one or two that counts for both.

Edit: I did not know about the max overlap. So apparently you'd be doing 39 credits total if you use the maximum 9 credit overlap.

Pretty sure it is just 24 total.  The 9 overlap is the controlling rule for the second AoS.  Still a pretty silly paper chase except in very specific situations.

This is my understanding as well.
Working on: Researching doctoral programs for a potential 2021-22 start

Complete:
MBA (IT Management), 2019, Western Governors University
BSBA (Computer Information Systems), 2019, Thomas Edison State University
ASNSM (Computer Science), 2018, Thomas Edison State University

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WGU Ambassador
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#10
I'm not saying I will do this, just curious and thinking of it. Might even be something I do years from now.

Basically I have a ton of college credits and ACE that didn't get accepted by my B&M college where I got my first bachelors. I thought it would be good to put the ACE to use. I'm technically enrolled at TESU and took a tecep, so yeah all these ACE are on a college transcript, but I kind of wanted to get an actual degree with them. Many of the alt credits are free, but some I paid for and never used towards my degree (I was at TESU then switched to B&M so thats what I have them).The issue is I found a BA major that I already have the entire major done already without earning new credits after degree conferral. So in order to graduate from TESU I'd have to add a second AOS. So I was wondering all 24 of the new credits could come from the new AOS if the other one was all done already. Hope this all makes sense. I don't know if any of you guys really answered my question.

Honestly with TESUs prices I might not do this, but I still want to know the answer so I can figure everything out.
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