What to do with my post-bacc sciences and a word about them (med school)..

[MSK9]

your "fact" is nonsense

first of all, you say "many medical schools accept"  -- but you never define "many"
25% ? 51% ?  10% ?

then you say they accept regionally accredited online credits -- but you neglect to say if they accept all or only some
so yes, they might accept online english or statistics, but do they accept online organic chemistry ?
and do they accept them automatically or do they have to be reviewed  

here, first school I checked
https://www.ps.columbia.edu/education/ac...quirements
Kindly note that we do not accept online courses for our prerequisite classes.

2nd school I checked
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/admi...ments.html
Extension or evening courses taken in fulfillment of premedical course requirements are not acceptable unless they are identical to courses offered in the college’s regular academic program
Online courses are not acceptable for prerequisite coursework

as for what you can do with your current courses, there is no need to get a 2nd degree
you already finished your TESU BALS in September 2018
you do not need a science degree to apply to med school
ANY degree will do -- you already have one

Sigh. No, it's not, actually. You've cherry-picked two of the most competitive medical schools in the United States,  but nice try.  

@bluebooger: Looks like you're lying in wait for something to argue about. Since we're splitting hairs, let's say "many" is equal to 20 or more. Yes, I know I do not need a science degree to get into medical school. What I have is acceptable and I've been told so by medical schools. That wasn't my question, reread my post. Furthermore, Blue, if you want percentages, do the leg work and calculate them yourself. AACOMAS school info is part of their application. AAMC has MSAR, which is a fairly comprehensive list of medical school matriculation info. Though it is fairly accurate, it is not entirely accurate as the schools are responsible for their own MSAR info, so you should call admissions directly if you need clarification. Some school pages from the MSAR haven't been updated since 2015 and do not reflect current requirements.

I'm more than happy to post a list of some of the schools that accept online pre-reqs; it wasn't the main point of my post, hence I didn't list any. 

There are 179 medical schools in the United States, I haven't gone through all of them but here are 23 that accept online pre-reqs. I've confirmed these but if you don't trust this list, call and verify:

ALLOPATHIC MEDICAL SCHOOLS (in no particular order):
Chicago Medical School at Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science
Drexel University College of Medicine
Michigan State University College of Human Medicine
Oakland University William Beaumont School of Medicine
Seton Hall University School of Medicine
Tulane University School of Medicine
University of Missouri-Columbia School of Medicine
University of North Dakota School of Medicine and Health Sciences
University of Oklahoma College of Medicine
University of South Alabama College of Medicine
University of South Dakota Sanford School of Medicine
University of Washington School of Medicine
Wake Forest School of Medicine
West Virginia University of School of Medicine

OSTEOPATHIC:
Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine (all three locations)
University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine
West Virginia College of Osteopathic Medicine
New York Institute College of Osteopathic Medicine (both locations)
Des Moines University College of Osteopathic Medicine
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine (both locations)
Liberty University College of Osteopathic Medicine
Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine

This list is obviously truncated for time and effort. It's a mix of State and Private, Non-Profit and For-Profit schools.

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Yes, any degree will do, and biology majors have a lower chance of being accepted. I don't know if there's some insecurity with only having a BALS; there probably should be since most people won't be accepted to medical school. This is why I often advise against getting a BALS. People should get the degree they want/need the first time.

Recently, it seems like many here have gotten the BALS to check the box. Once they find out the degree doesn't check many boxes, they want to go back and get a second degree.

There has definitely been an active effort to attract and recruit non-science majors into medicine, especially Humanities; many of the medical schools I've researched say it outright on their admissions pages. Doctors and other admissions committee folks have told me non-traditional applicants often have enough stuff in their professional history to make them stand out amongst the flood of chemistry and biology majors. 

I met with an admissions director, an associate dean of the same medical school and an admissions committee member a few months back. They said for applicants like me, the most important things are science grades and MCAT score. As long if your degree is accredited, it's not a big deal. They also emphasized that more and more schools look at the applicant holistically.

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It would be nice if you posted which schools you've talked to that will accept those RA online pre-req courses, since lots of people come on here to ask that question.  Giving some info would be a nice thing to do for others.

I had originally intended to do this in a separate thread for clarity's sake but I went ahead and listed 23 of the 179 US medical schools.

[Jonathan Whatley]

In the most recent annual cycles reported, U.S. allopathic medical schools had 52777 applicants to a matriculating class of 21622 (41% took a seat somewhere), and osteopathic medical schools had 20981 applicants to a matriculating class of 7415 (35% took a seat somewhere). Around 1 in 4 allopathic applicants are repeat applicants; this was at least the second annual cycle in which they applied.

I’m cheering you on MSK9! But I want readers to understand just how large a surplus of applicants relative to seats medical schools have to choose from. Meeting minimum requirements is part of the game, but in this environment every successful applicant has to, in one way or another or more than one, significantly outrank the minimum applicant.

[mysonx3]

Just want to pop in to say good luck, MSK9!

[cookderosa]

Hopkins and Columbia don't accept online sciences? LOL shocker.
To add fuel to the fire (or water, depending on how you look at it) I called many DO programs when I started this journey as well - I saved my emails for many years to CYA but I also rec'd confirmation after confirmation saying the same thing "though not a preferred way to meet prereqs, was not excluded." I emailed maybe 7 or 8, it's been years - but you can either look at it as "well, it rules out X schools, so I won't do it" or it "doesn't rule out all schools, so I'm doing it"
In other words, I found it encouraging enough that had I pressed on, I'm certain it wouldn't have been a deal breaker. (assumes all A's and strong package in every other way)

I tried to make my premed /prenursing sciences fit into a degree- they were a lot of work and a lot of money. BUT, they were all lower level. So, though I did take one grad level bio through Harvard Extension that I would have "back-filled" as an UL undergrad science, and in theory, could have built a degree that way, it was going to be too many extra hoops (and cost and time away from your current goals) - and that was when they still offered a degree in Natural Science (which I think they got rid of) allowing you to pick from any science.

I haven't found a good way to use those credits in a second bachelor's - the smartest thing would have been to use those in the first degree, but I didn't do that - so at the end of the day, I have a ton of loose undergrad science credits. <shrug>

EDIT to add: it bothered me a lot more BEFORE I had my MS. Now that I have that, I'm not nearly as preoccupied. I trust that will be the case when you have DO/MD after your name. You know I've always been your fan. Keep your eye on the prize. Haters gunna hate. Don't get distracted with an other BA. I think it dilutes your conviction to pursue a degree on your terms (which is really part of your story - and for nontrads, having an interesting story is important). You go get em.

[MSK9]

In the most recent annual cycles reported, U.S. allopathic medical schools had 52777 applicants to a matriculating class of 21622 (41% took a seat somewhere), and osteopathic medical schools had 20981 applicants to a matriculating class of 7415 (35% took a seat somewhere). Around 1 in 4 allopathic applicants are repeat applicants; this was at least the second annual cycle in which they applied.

I’m cheering you on MSK9! But I want readers to understand just how large a surplus of applicants relative to seats medical schools have to choose from. Meeting minimum requirements is part of the game, but in this environment every successful applicant has to, in one way or another or more than one, significantly outrank the minimum applicant.

Thanks for the kind words, Jonathan.

Your post is highly accurate. There are a lot of applicants each cycle, some are repeats. Based on what I've read and heard, some of the biggest hurdles for applicants are cumulative GPA, science GPA, and low MCAT score. The average matriculant (accepted) of 2016-17 had an average MCAT score of 509 or 510.. can't remember which. Like you said, the minimums are just the minimums. Applicants have to step their game up for this process; the minimum won't cut it, and it only gets more competitive. NRMP Match (residencies) results are usually posted by their participant schools and many of these lists show the numbers, it's serious biz.

Hopkins and Columbia don't accept online sciences? LOL shocker.
To add fuel to the fire (or water, depending on how you look at it) I called many DO programs when I started this journey as well - I saved my emails for many years to CYA but I also rec'd confirmation after confirmation saying the same thing  "though not a preferred way to meet prereqs, was not excluded."  I emailed maybe 7 or 8, it's been years - but you can either look at it as "well, it rules out X schools, so I won't do it" or it "doesn't rule out all schools, so I'm doing it"
In other words, I found it encouraging enough that had I pressed on, I'm certain it wouldn't have been a deal breaker.  (assumes all A's and strong package in every other way)

I tried to make my premed /prenursing sciences fit into a degree- they were a lot of work and a lot of money.  BUT, they were all lower level. So, though I did take one grad level bio through Harvard Extension that I would have "back-filled" as an UL undergrad science, and in theory, could have built a degree that way, it was going to be too many extra hoops (and cost and time away from your current goals) -  and that was when they still offered a degree in Natural Science (which I think they got rid of) allowing you to pick from any science.

I haven't found a good way to use those credits in a second bachelor's - the smartest thing would have been to use those in the first degree, but I didn't do that - so at the end of the day, I have a ton of loose undergrad science credits.  <shrug>

EDIT to add:  it bothered me a lot more BEFORE I had my MS.  Now that I have that, I'm not nearly as preoccupied.    I trust that will be the case when you have DO/MD after your name.  You know I've always been your fan.  Keep your eye on the prize.  Haters gunna hate.  Don't get distracted with an other BA. I think it dilutes your conviction to pursue a degree on your terms (which is really part of your story - and for nontrads, having an interesting story is important).  You go get em.

Thank you! Your positivity and support mean a lot to me. I agree with you in that I don't want to do anything that's going to add additional time to this "pipeline" of mine, just wanted to see what my options are. Ultimately, I'm okay having a pile of these classes with no degree.

There was, most definitely, a time when online pre-reqs were stigmatized but there seems to be a collective shift away from this in this age of social and academic inclusivity. Some institutions also accept Advanced Placement (AP) courses as pre-requisites, though this is not common for now. The attitudes I've encountered were essentially indifferent about the origin of my pre-requisites as long as they were regionally accredited.

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Just want to pop in to say good luck, MSK9!

Thanks!!

[cookderosa]

There was, most definitely, a time when online pre-reqs were stigmatized but there seems to be a collective shift away from this in this age of social and academic inclusivity. >>

I am curious, do you know if the AMCAS / AACOMAS applications have a self-disclosure requirement that would indicate whether or not a science course was taken in full or in part online? I ask because it is almost impossible to find out otherwise. This isn't to suggest lying, it's to say that without self-disclosure, it's an impossible stipulation to require. With narrow exception, it's simply not knowable on most transcripts.

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This is completely random, but are you considering vet school as well? I know it doesn't pay as well, but with your background I'm curious.

[Jonathan Whatley]

I am curious, do you know if the AMCAS / AACOMAS applications have a self-disclosure requirement that would indicate whether or not a science course was taken in full or in part online? I ask because it is almost impossible to find out otherwise.

Remember that the AMCAS and AACOMAS applications are just a first step in a longer application and due diligence process. The AMCAS course verification process now draws on database information from the National Student Clearinghouse, which may have a course or a section of a course tagged as being online even if a transcript issued by the providing school doesn't. Med schools can also ask on a secondary application, or during a prerequisite check prior to matriculation that the med school conducts itself.

[davewill]

I'd be tempted to just move forward with medical school applications, and studying for a solid MCAT score rather than putting in more time on another undergraduate degree.

[dfrecore]

I've also heard that since practically EVERYONE who applies is a Bio or Chem major (yes, I overstate), that med schools actively look for people who do NOT have those degrees. Psych is popular. But I think they probably get tired of the same exact majors coming through, something like a BALS is probably a breath of fresh air.

[Jonathan Whatley]

I've also heard that since practically EVERYONE who applies is a Bio or Chem major (yes, I overstate), that med schools actively look for people who do NOT have those degrees.  Psych is popular.  But I think they probably get tired of the same exact majors coming through, something like a BALS is probably a breath of fresh air.

Applicants and Matriculants to U.S. Allopathic Medical Schools by Primary Undergraduate Major, 2018-19 Cycle

• Math and Statistics | 48% of applicants matriculated. 1% of applicants had this primary major. Mean matriculant MCAT 514.1
  
• Humanities | 47% of applicants matriculated. 3% of applicants had this primary major. Mean matriculant MCAT 512.1
  
• Physical Sciences | 46% of applicants matriculated. 9% of applicants had this primary major. Mean matriculant MCAT 512.6
  
• Social Sciences | 41% of applicants matriculated. 10% of applicants had this primary major. Mean matriculant MCAT 511.2
  
• Other | 40% of applicants matriculated. 18% of applicants had this primary major. Mean matriculant MCAT 510.8
  
• Biological Sciences | 40% of applicants matriculated. 56% of applicants had this primary major. Mean matriculant MCAT 511.0
  
• Specialized Health Sciences | 36% of applicants matriculated. 3% of applicants had this primary major. Mean matriculant MCAT 509.7
  
  
• All Majors – 41% of applicants matriculated. Mean matriculant MCAT 511.2
  
  

Using data from AAMC Applicants and Matriculants Data table A-17 available here.

Social science majors have an admission rate and mean matriculant MCAT score around the same as biological science majors and around the same as the overall all-majors average. Also in a cluster with numbers similar to those, majors in "other," which likely includes liberal arts and general studies.