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transferring credits multiple times
#1
First post here so wanted to say Hi and thanks in advance for the help.

I am going back to school due to a promotion at work and I, like all of you, am trying to do it the quickest and most efficient way possible.  I have a few questions.

I have family reasons I would like to eventually graduate from Penn State with a business administration degree, with a plan to get an MBA and project management and supply chain certificatificates.   My plan is as follows if it is possible.

Enroll in a community college and CLEP out of everything possible for an associates degree.  I'm doing this for monetary reasons, I feel that I can get the associates completed in less than a year this way.  I am seeing through Penn States transfer credit tool that quite a few higher level classes will transfer from the community college so my main question is can I use one of the big three to test out of higher level classes at the community college which will then transfer to Penn State.  This way I can stay in the community college after I get the associates degree and be working on testing out of the higher level classes that will transfer to my community college and ultimately to Penn State.

I would be looking at just going to one of the big three but more classes will transfer from the community college than will transfer from the big 3.

Basically can I use the community college as an intermediary to get the transfer credits from the big 3 to transfer to a state college?
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#2
Generally any college or university you transfer to will want you send original transcripts from ALL institutions you've attended. You can't "launder" your credits through a middle man.
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#3
Penn State does take some of the ACE, DSST, CLEP, etc - doesn't appear to take NCCRS.  You would have to contact them directly which they take and for what equivalency - however here is there general guide page for Adult &/or Military students: https://admissions.psu.edu/info/future/adult/credit/
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#4
Unless you were to take actual courses or TECEPs or UEXCELs, at one of the Big3, there's no role for the Big3 to play in your transfer to Penn State. Penn State either will transfer the various alternative credits you take or they won't. You can't get Penn State to take them because one of the Big3 or your community college* did.

* It is possible that Penn State has an articulation agreement with your local community college that would allow courses taken there or alternative credit used in your associate's to transfer when they otherwise wouldn't. I don't know if that's the case for you.
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#5
Some community colleges even 3+1 agreements (meaning you take about 90 credits or 3 years worth at a CC and 1 year or 30 credits at a University). Business is a very common major for this to occur. Here is what I would do, however this is based on the community colleges in my area and I've noticed it is available at other places too.

Steps:

1. Earn 45 credits through CLEP and DSST testing. This would usually be about 15 tests. 45 credits is usually the most transfer credits one can apply to an associates degree at a community college.

2. Take 15 credits at community college. If you played your cards right you would get an associates in general studies.

3. Take approximately, 30 more credits at a community college. This would satisfy the 3+1 agreement. Possibly granting you another associates degree and maybe some certificates in the process.

4. Take the remaining 30 or so credits at Penn State and graduate with a BSBA.

Again, I don't know if this plan I describe is actually possible but it is possible across multiple states and seems to be likely in your case too.

If there is no 3+1 agreement then just follow the steps above but instead of taking 30 credits for step 4, take whatever the maximum amount of community college credit transfer would be.

Check out this: https://www.psu.edu/dept/enrmgmt/artic_agrmnts.html
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#6
(10-31-2018, 12:10 PM)davewill Wrote: Unless you were to take actual courses or TECEPs or UEXCELs, at one of the Big3, there's no role for the Big3 to play in your transfer to Penn State. Penn State either will transfer the various alternative credits you take or they won't. You can't get Penn State to take them because one of the Big3 or your community college* did.

* It is possible that Penn State has an articulation agreement with your local community college that would allow courses taken there or alternative credit used in your associate's to transfer when they otherwise wouldn't. I don't know if that's the case for you.


That is the question, I wouldn't be trying to "force" anyone to take the credits.  Penn State has a transfer credit tool on their website where you can look at the classes from the college you're in and see if they will transfer and what the corresponding course at Penn State would be.  Plugging some classes into the tool I can see that some of the higher level courses from the community college will indeed transfer.  But there Is no CLEP exam for those classes.  Thats what I was asking, can I use the big 3 to test out of the higher level courses at the community college, which those will then transfer to Penn State.  I'm not trying to scam my way through just trying to see if there is a way to test out of higher level classes (if I am capable of doing so) to speed up the time frame.


(10-31-2018, 12:53 PM)natshar Wrote: Some community colleges even 3+1 agreements (meaning you take about 90 credits or 3 years worth at a CC and 1 year or 30 credits at a University). Business is a very common major for this to occur. Here is what I would do, however this is based on the community colleges in my area and I've noticed it is available at other places too.

Steps:

1. Earn 45 credits through CLEP and DSST testing. This would usually be about 15 tests. 45 credits is usually the most transfer credits one can apply to an associates degree at a community college.

2. Take 15 credits at community college. If you played your cards right you would get an associates in general studies.

3. Take approximately, 30 more credits at a community college. This would satisfy the 3+1 agreement. Possibly granting you another associates degree and maybe some certificates in the process.

4. Take the remaining 30 or so credits at Penn State and graduate with a BSBA.

Again, I don't know if this plan I describe is actually possible but it is possible across multiple states and seems to be likely in your case too.

If there is no 3+1 agreement then just follow the steps above but instead of taking 30 credits for step 4, take whatever the maximum amount of community college credit transfer would be.

Check out this: https://www.psu.edu/dept/enrmgmt/artic_agrmnts.html


If my original idea doesn't pan out, this is the way I will try to go.  This will save me a boat load of money.  I have an appointment with an advisor from the community college on Monday so I will feel all that out.
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#7
(11-01-2018, 05:39 AM)husker77c Wrote:
(10-31-2018, 12:10 PM)davewill Wrote: Unless you were to take actual courses or TECEPs or UEXCELs, at one of the Big3, there's no role for the Big3 to play in your transfer to Penn State. Penn State either will transfer the various alternative credits you take or they won't. You can't get Penn State to take them because one of the Big3 or your community college* did.

* It is possible that Penn State has an articulation agreement with your local community college that would allow courses taken there or alternative credit used in your associate's to transfer when they otherwise wouldn't. I don't know if that's the case for you.


That is the question, I wouldn't be trying to "force" anyone to take the credits.  Penn State has a transfer credit tool on their website where you can look at the classes from the college you're in and see if they will transfer and what the corresponding course at Penn State would be.  Plugging some classes into the tool I can see that some of the higher level courses from the community college will indeed transfer.  But there Is no CLEP exam for those classes.  Thats what I was asking, can I use the big 3 to test out of the higher level courses at the community college, which those will then transfer to Penn State.  I'm not trying to scam my way through just trying to see if there is a way to test out of higher level classes (if I am capable of doing so) to speed up the time frame.

The Big 3 still has no standing in what you're describing.  If you use a CLEP, or other ACE provider course, to earn credit and your CC accepts them to 'replace' one of their courses in a degree program that the CC offers - it is still not a school course.  They will not transfer as anything other than what they were originally (CLEP/ACE credits); they still have their own original transcript source. If you earn a degree from the CC and request the transcript to be sent to Penn (or any other school) you will still need to send Penn the CLEP/ACE transcripts as well if you want credit for those courses - having them appear on a Big 3 school transcript wouldn't change that requirement. What you're describing is what is call credit laundering - and it doesn't work. Not suggesting that your intention is to 'scam', just educating you on what it is called as you described.  More importantly just because the CC accepts the CLEP/ACE credits for a degree does not mean that Penn will accept those same credits to be transferred in as applied to a Penn degree.  

You do not need to be active with any of the Big 3 in order to earn any of the credits we talk about here (in case that is part of your confusion).  You can take all the CLEPs and not be required to send them to any school at the time you take them, same for any of the other college credit providers we mention here (ie Straighterline, Study.com, Saylor).  Credits that you earn from an ACE provider just get added to your ACE transcript, and when you would apply to Penn you would send from ACE transcript (it would include all your ACE credits regardless of provider - excluding CLEP which has their own transcript system).  Also, this all applies if one of the Big 3 had a transfer agreement with Penn - the CLEP/ACE credits will still not counts as Big 3 school credits, even if they appear on the Big 3 school transcript.


Penn does take these alternative credit sources for Adult &/or Military students that transfer to them - however, like any school it does not mean they take all credit courses from all providers.  I provided the Penn specific link in my other post, so it is important that you inquire with Penn prior to earning alternative credits to see how/if they transfer into Penn (since Penn is your goal)

One final comment, you keep mentioning "higher level" course from the CC - CC courses are always LL (lower level).  The only exception to this would be if the CC in question is one of the very few CCs that are now offering 4 year bachelor degrees.   I suspect that the agreement you're referring to as 'higher level' means that Penn will accept the more advanced level (in subject) courses from the CC. In example they may not take a course called "Liberal Arts Math" but they will accept "College Algebra" - or they may not take the CC Chem I but they will accept the CC's Organic Chem I.
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#8
(11-01-2018, 08:04 AM)allvia Wrote: One final comment, you keep mentioning "higher level" course from the CC - CC courses are always LL (lower level).  The only exception to this would be if the CC in question is one of the very few CCs that are now offering 4 year bachelor degrees.   I suspect that the agreement you're referring to as 'higher level' means that Penn will accept the more advanced level (in subject) courses from the CC. In example they may not take a course called "Liberal Arts Math" but they will accept "College Algebra" - or they may not take the CC Chem I but they will accept the CC's Organic Chem I.

This is not necessarily true.  A college can choose to bring in courses from anywhere and give them any level they want.  So they can bring in LL courses from a CC or 4-yr school and give them UL credit, or bring in UL credit and give them LL credit.

For many years, TESU brought in CC courses as UL if they matched their own courses (I have a bunch of LL courses from CC and 4-yr schools that are UL through TESU).

It is entirely up to the school what they want to do with credits - there is no single policy that applies across all schools.
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#9
(11-01-2018, 05:39 AM)husker77c Wrote: ...  Plugging some classes into the tool I can see that some of the higher level courses from the community college will indeed transfer.  But there Is no CLEP exam for those classes.  Thats what I was asking, can I use the big 3 to test out of the higher level courses at the community college, which those will then transfer to Penn State.  I'm not trying to scam my way through just trying to see if there is a way to test out of higher level classes (if I am capable of doing so) to speed up the time frame. ...

Once again, unless you are actually taking those tests AT one of the Big3, the Big3 have no role to play. Your CC will either take the alternative credit, or they won't. They won't take it because one of the Big3 did. Even if they do, Penn State may not take it as they only promised to take the course from your CC, not from whatever alternative source your used.

The only possible exception to ANY of this would be if Penn State accepts your associate's through a block transfer, and the CC takes the alternative credit directly. However, even then I don't think upper level credit would be granted through the block transfer. Besides, that doesn't sound like what you're describing here with your tool to look up individual course transfers.
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#10
(10-31-2018, 07:27 AM)husker77c Wrote: I would be looking at just going to one of the big three but more classes will transfer from the community college than will transfer from the big 3.

That's a strange assumption, but none the less, if you don't take classes from the big 3 then there is nothing to transfer.

I'm curious, are you looking at Penn State's on campus program at University Park for your bachelor's degree or are you going through their Global campus? University Park and Global have very different requirements for admission and transfer. Global for SURE more alternative credit friendly.

Curiosity #2, do you work in Supply Chain now? You know the MIT supply chain grad program is the top program in the country and you can now do that master's degree in 1 year. The first 50% (1 semester) is through edX online *CHEAP* and the second semester (last 50%) is on campus *EXPENSIVE.* I have been priming my oldest son to pursue that degree since they launched in 2016.
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