Gov. Shutdown?

[mrs.b]

Grant for a moment that there is a God. Grant that He's created things a certain way, that he's created people in His own image. If that were true, then people would agree that murder, stealing, etc. were wrong. In a fallen, sinful state, they may not know why they tend to hold to these truths. They may even say that "sane people around the world can agree..." without fully grasping why they feel that way.

In other words, it's plausible that there's more to it than just "sane people" agreeing to something without a deeper reason why.

...

And you're ignoring (conveniently) the fact that in a world without absolute truth, hurting someone is okay if "my truth" says its okay. Why is societies truth to be accepted over mine (because they are all relative)?

I'll grant there is a God, because I am a believer in a brand of the Christian faith, and feel obligated to say that since I'm about to argue many of the Christian-based arguments to correct a personal pet peeve. That pet peeve is trying to use the existence of Universal Truths to justify the existence of one's preferred higher power. The definition of Universal Truth is that said truth does not change over time or with the passing of generations. All the provided examples of societal norms have, in fact, changed over time. Gravity, momentum, etc...those are Universal Truths. Societal norms, however, frequently change and mutate as generations and time passes.

Proscribed murder is one of those supposed truths that has had so many caveats attached to it over the years that you must reference a specific timeframe to discuss, including the times defined as Biblical where the Judeo-Christian God reputedly had the most direct hand in events. Once upon a time, it was considered protecting the virtue of a society to drown or burn at the stake people who followed a different faith in the name of God. Once upon a time, adultery was a stoning offense in the name of God. These practices are no longer accepted in society, thus demonstrating a change in acceptable forms of murder.

Dueteronomy 22:20-21 said women who go to their marriage bed without their virginity intact should be stoned to death. As the recognized text of the Judeo-Christian faith which is predominant in the world today, does this mean society should revisit its customs and return to a time when women were property with a sole value of breeding stock who should have rocks lobbed at them if they behaved as men? In fact, it is not a societal norm now, again demonstrating a mutation of acceptable standards of behavior that eliminate it as an argument of Universal Truth.

Also, think of stoning . . . to do that, you had to have two witnesses that could recount the same story. There was no putting someone on death row because of DNA evidence or fingerprints, or any of that. Again, we in modern times are more likely to find someone guilty today than they would have been.

And, with stoning itself . . . it was a group activity. It wasn't easy and simple like lethal injection where it happens by one person in the middle of the night. This was up front, personal, and made you think. Again, it could be a safe-guard against being too quick to judgement. You didn't get to wash your hands of the thing if you handed down a guilty verdict in a capital case. You had to be part of the execution.

John 8:7 made it pretty clear that execution for adultery (previously deemed a capital offense per Old Testament's Leviticus 20), regardless of willingness to lob a rock, was not considered appropriate behavior. Despite that directive, today needles are put in arms of convicted criminals in the name of protecting a God-fearing society, and it is self-described Christians that tend to be the loudest advocates of capital punishment in contradiction of the verse often discussed on Sunday mornings around the world. This demonstrates to me that many decisions made in the name of a deity tend to be arbitrary, mutable over time, and I daresay hypocritical; the standard changed between the times of Old and New Testament, again since then countless times. It appears to depend on the whims of the societal majority as to which standard will be selected to dictate that society's behavior, and that is changeable as those people change.

This, to me, demonstrates why societal norms or believed existence of a given deity cannot be used to demonstrate Universal Truth. It contradicts the definition of Universal Truth since it has and continues to change over time.

All of that said, it does not (to me, at least) invalidate the existence of a higher power. Faith is believing in something with or without proof, occasionally in opposition of logic or evidence, and no logical or illogical arguments can take Faith away. It's why debates surrounding Faith (a required facet of Religion) tend to be circular and volatile. The only variable I've witnessed in evidence tends to be whether or not people will eventually become so emotional over the differences of opinion that violence ensues. That, at least, is a Universal Truth related to Faith that I would accept because evidence exists throughout time. Wars have been fought, people have been murdered (justifiably and not, depending on the given rules of the society at the time), and societies have been torn apart over differences in religious opinion that, if one looks closely, were often reasonably minor.

Ok, I'm confused, how has the government shutdown come to be about what I believe about the bible or God Isn't this a separate topic?

Absolutely no connection, other than much of the personal decisions made in the name of politics is claimed to be directed by religious belief. Or the alignment of stars (which is also a religion). Or where a dart lands on a dartboard. Or who is paying the most for an opinion today. Pick your poison.

Or it could be that the opposition of Obamacare by a large section of Christian proponents could be seen as flying in the face of the directives given by that religion. I'm pretty sure the Bible mentions a time or two minor details about caring for sick, needy neighbors. These details seem to get sketchy in our memories when we're called upon to fund them, though.