My definition of conservative

[Ruddigore]

Ron Paul. Let's hope not in my time.

I have to agree with Gary on this one. Not Ron Paul, please.

On the other hand, Social Security and Medicare are universal social insurance plans, and there’s the rub. All workers pay into the programs, and at age 65 (sometimes earlier) they all qualify for benefits.

Everyone talks about the poor and how much they are costing taxpayers. Look at the food stamp program and how much money we are paying into it. In fact it is the larger social programs that are draining this country. Bernie Madoff ripped off more from his counterparts than the total cost of food stamps in 2004 dollars (2008 dollars as well). While there are other programs that offshoot aid programs (TANF, Medicaid, SSI), TANF is a relatively small portion. Please correct me where I am wrong. Use real math and not that fuzzy math GWB used please. Now, should we just put the elderly out in the streets because they cost too much. What's the churches view on this???

Social Security is quite the Ponzi Scheme. It takes from one group of people, paying the next, hoping that it has enough money to pay for the coverage of the elderly with the money of the younger.

The church believes that people should care for the elderly without relying on the government, but of course, this doesn't always happen. SS and Medicare would be best downsized -- people might actually give to charities that would affect the problem (both concerning the elderly and the poor) if they didn't have to pay so many taxes to the government. Do we really trust the government more than ourselves to help people? If our motives are so good (we want to help the poor), then he should be able to do it without the compulsion that arises from taxes. At least, we *should.*

Let's look back at the excellent values posted by dc67 (the ones that started this thread):

Personal responsibility, limited government, individual liberty, strong national defense, traditional values, free markets.

Limited Government. Three cheers for limited government. That's what downsizing SS & Medicare is all about.

One more thought. Wikipedia mentions that "States or nations that provide social welfare programs are often identified as having a welfare state. In such countries, access to social welfare services is often considered a basic and inalienable right to those in need." An inalienable right? That seems a bit overboard. Am I missing something?